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Hull's quest and how reaction is calculated

PingwinPingwin Member Posts: 262
in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
I've just started a new playthrough with a 16 charisma chaotic good character and returned Hull's sword. Surprisingly he didn't complain about how long I took and he gave me 20gp instead of 10gp.

As far as I'm aware this shouldn't be possible should it? I've used the same character before and it's always been 10gp. Is there a timer involved in the quest, or is there a random element involved in calculating NPC reactions? I was under the impression that the supposedly random element of determining reaction scores is actually fixed at 10 and so unless reputation or charisma changes, the result should always be the same.

Not a big deal really but just curious if there is part of the game mechanics that I've misunderstood.

Comments

  • SandkatzeSandkatze Member Posts: 34
    edited August 2019
    charisma and reputation is all what counts and it starts with your base score.
    with charisma 10 you get a little money for the bolt delivering and hulls sword.
    with charisma 18 you get a dagger +1 for bolt delivering and full / highest payment for hulls sword.

    someone somewhere said that charisma isn't really important, except for paladins.
    in late game, maybe so but in short term, when you're dirt poor, a high charisma score helps a lot.

    Edit:
    https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Charisma
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,006
    very interesting, to get the "good" reaction from hull the game checks:

    ReactionGT(LastTalkedToBy,NEUTRAL_UPPER)

    to get the "bad" reaction from hull the game checks:

    ReactionLT(LastTalkedToBy,FRIENDLY_LOWER)

    my only assumption is that perhaps the random reaction encounter roll is actually still random at 8-12?

    i do recall that sometimes the gnome in the FAI that makes you do the spider quest will sometimes give you the potions and sometime will not if your CHA isn't 18 ( at least in vanilla BG )

  • SandkatzeSandkatze Member Posts: 34
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    i do recall that sometimes the gnome in the FAI that makes you do the spider quest will sometimes give you the potions and sometime will not if your CHA isn't 18 ( at least in vanilla BG )

    i've done that multiple times but got the antidote only with charisma 18. the other times my char had a score of 10 and below. i didn't try it with scores between them, so i've got no proof for that.
  • PingwinPingwin Member Posts: 262
    I've only ever seen the gnome in the FAI hand out the potions when charisma is 18. Interesting that she's sometimes given out the potions to characters of lower charisma. Going to have to experiment a bit and see if I can recreate this.
  • SandkatzeSandkatze Member Posts: 34
    edited August 2019
    as i see it, it's a reaction problem. as long as your reaction is high enough the charisma score doesn't matter.
    but the problem is, reaction is calculated based on your charisma and your reputation. everytime i talked to her, my rep was average at 10 in BG vanilla.

    i don't have the patience to try out every possible combination to see what is the best outcome.
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 183
    edited August 2019
    Yes, Reaction is based on your Charisma AND Reputation, although Charisma is far more important of the two. For example 16 Charisma gives you a +4 Reaction modifier, to get the same bonus would require 20 Reputation.

    Reputation also should have no effect on what goes on in Prologue, since highest Rep you can have is 12(as Lawful Good) and bonuses start from 14 onwards.

    So bottom line is, it seems that Hull's good reaction only requires a +4 Reaction bonus. Base is fixed 10(it was supposed to be a 8-12 roll but that never made it into the game or was scrapped) and 14 is enough for NEUTRAL_UPPER, so that checks out.

    Interestingly the next tier, FRIENDLY_LOWER, requires 15 Reaction(18 Cha or 16 Cha + 15 Rep) and the highest possible tier, FRIENDLY_UPPER, requires 20 Reaction. I wonder which quest even uses that high of a check.
  • GallengerGallenger Member Posts: 400
    I can confirm that if you don't have charisma 18, skip the gnome in the FAI, and then return later with 20 reputation you're fairly likely to receive the antidotes. I've had this happen a few times when I forget to go up there.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    It may seem inconsequential, but getting that +1 dagger early can make a big difference for a low-level thief, especially for a solo run or a Shadowdancer. The beginning of BGEE can be brutal and you need all the help you can get. Almost every solo-no-reload run I've tried has ended before I even got to level 2...
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,006
    Gallenger wrote: »
    I can confirm that if you don't have charisma 18, skip the gnome in the FAI, and then return later with 20 reputation you're fairly likely to receive the antidotes. I've had this happen a few times when I forget to go up there.

    you can also pick pocket them as well if you have at least at 50 in pick pockets
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    Gallenger wrote: »
    I can confirm that if you don't have charisma 18, skip the gnome in the FAI, and then return later with 20 reputation you're fairly likely to receive the antidotes. I've had this happen a few times when I forget to go up there.

    you can also pick pocket them as well if you have at least at 50 in pick pockets

    But you have to give up on lockpick which allows you to get the awesome loot in the chest in 2nd floor of Candlekeep Inn.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,006
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    Gallenger wrote: »
    I can confirm that if you don't have charisma 18, skip the gnome in the FAI, and then return later with 20 reputation you're fairly likely to receive the antidotes. I've had this happen a few times when I forget to go up there.

    you can also pick pocket them as well if you have at least at 50 in pick pockets

    But you have to give up on lockpick which allows you to get the awesome loot in the chest in 2nd floor of Candlekeep Inn.

    not necessarily, you dont need to pick pocket the gnerm at level 1 for those antidote potions, you can always come back if your scores are lacking a bit, or just bring garrick along until he hits that sweet 50 in pick pockets
  • SandkatzeSandkatze Member Posts: 34
    edited August 2019
    started another char just for how it would turn out to be playing.
    i discovered a safe / reload healing bug but thats not the point.

    point is, this character got char 20 and rep 20 but only reaction +9
    my other character who's not for fun got char 21 and rep 10 but a reaction of +10

    i know it's calculated on char and rep but it seems most of it is charisma related, so scrap rep and boost charisma :D
    Post edited by Sandkatze on
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,006
    Sandkatze wrote: »
    started another char just for how it would turn out to be playing.
    i discovered a safe / reload healing bug but thats not the point.

    point is, this character got char 20 and rep 20 but only reaction +9
    my other character who's not for fun got char 21 and rep 10 but a reaction of +10

    i know it's calculated on char and rep but it seems most of it is charisma related, so scrap rep and boost charisma :D

    what version of EE are you playing? im pretty sure on earlier versions the reaction from REP does not show in the character record, but still counts, it even had a seperate .2da file

    on the latest patch of the EEs i noticed that now on the reaction line your CHA and REP both total together
  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 2,785
    @Pingwin Do you have the Hull components from bg1re installed? Because it makes getting the high reaction more easy.
  • PingwinPingwin Member Posts: 262
    No, the only mod I have installed is one to remove the EE characters.
  • SandkatzeSandkatze Member Posts: 34
    edited August 2019
    sarevok57 wrote: »

    what version of EE are you playing? im pretty sure on earlier versions the reaction from REP does not show in the character record, but still counts, it even had a seperate .2da file

    on the latest patch of the EEs i noticed that now on the reaction line your CHA and REP both total together

    BG Vanilla v.1.1.4 315 no mods / hacks etc.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,006
    that would make sense then, in vanilla BG it doesnt add the reaction bonus from REP in your "reaction" line on your character sheet, despite the fact that you still get the bonus though
  • SandkatzeSandkatze Member Posts: 34
    and here i thought it was the sum of both
  • crawlkillcrawlkill Member Posts: 71
    forgive my bumping this ancient thread so close to its anniversary, but for DECADES I've thought Hull was bugged and actually was tracking -how long you took,- but doing so -from the start of the game- rather than from when he asked you. I'd always dawdle around Candlekeep and frequently handed him his sword immediately, but he was ~still super mad about how I'd taken my time,~ even though I hadn't left his sight.

    I don't think I've ever seen it happen in the EE, but I play it heavily modded and usually jack my CHA to 18 because it's a mostly useless stat anyway so what's the difference, so I guess that's why! my life is one mystery fewer thanks to this thread
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    CHA isn't useless! *grumpy face* It determines quest rewards, how likely party members are to panic in battle, store prices, and how long before incompatible party members try to kill each other. Its hecka useful!
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 1,093
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    CHA isn't useless! *grumpy face* It determines quest rewards, how likely party members are to panic in battle, store prices, and how long before incompatible party members try to kill each other. Its hecka useful!

    Yet, almost everyone uses it as the dump stat... ;)

    I will agree, though. My party has Isra in the top slot with a CHA of 23 and we get really good pricing on goods. Basically, every item the party has that boots CHA she wears when the party is shopping or talking with someone.

    This works great, unless the script specifically checks the PC's CHA, which is 14...
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Maurvir "Yet, almost everyone uses it as the dump stat... ;)"

    Like my years long crusade to get Bards accepted as a powerful class, I shall do so for CHarisma as a good stat.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,899
    The thing about charisma is that you really only need one character in the party with good charisma. Imoen has 16, so that's enough for good reactions in most situations even if your protagonist is terrible at it. For maximum discounts (Charisma 20), the Friends spell is great - you can get there with Imoen dualled to mage, Eldoth, Garrick, or Xan.

    To reach 20 Cha without temporary boosts in BG1 (without mods), you need at least 18 starting charisma, or 17 and the ability to wear helmets. Of course, you don't get those equipment pieces until chapter 5.
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