@Tanthalas Does the entrance spawn if you've gotten to AR5400 without going through Nashkel? That's the OP issue: the requisite of the Chap 2 trigger. Has it allowed a bypass of Chap 2 entirely?
What @SethDavis is asking is whether you'll sign off on the extension of the Nashkel-Carnival Chap 2 trigger to AR5400. This means it can be fixed the easy way with no further fuss. You and I were opposed to moving the Chap 2 trigger to the Mines, but are you willing to see the Chap 2 trigger include the Mines. The issue about it being a short Chap are irrelevant then (since you can get the same trigger in Nashkel or the Carnival anyway) and if the player has found some way to bypass both Nashkel and the Carnival to reach AR5400 they had to have already shortened their available Chap 2 by lengthening Chap 1.
@Tanthalas Gah- ignore last comment... didn't know you'd replied (on a very slow computer at work)
@Avenger_teambg So remove the Chap 2 trigger from the Carnival? If you enter the Carnival you get no Minsc either. Then again I never recruited Minsc until yrs later, never was a fan of his.
Honestly, I don't like that people can bypass Nashkel or the Carnival to get to the Mines, but the simple solution is to add entering the Nashkel Mines area (AR5400) as a Chapter 2 trigger and call it a day.
I agree with @Avenger_teambg that the entrance should spawn when you talk to the guards after talking to Emerson, and not just by talking to Emerson. Its not a big deal though.
I do agree about having the guards do the door spawning though- makes it look correct that they only part ways in order for you to actually go past to something.
Well, BG is an open-range game anyway- plenty of room to stick to what you're told which means you'd end up recruiting Montaran and Xzar and/ or Khalid and Jaheira and proceeding straight to Nashkel and the Mines, thus involving a short Chap 1 and short Chap 2- or go straight to Nashkel but recruit Minsc and/ or Rasaad to do their side-quests, thus involving a short Chap 1 and longer Chap 2- or immediately veer off everywhere soloing (which I like to do) to make a party with Safana, Dynaheir before meeting Minsc, Shar-teel, Ajantis, etc that would involve a huge Chap 1 and short Chap 2. BG1's charm is in no small part its flexibility... Nothing forces any player's hand regarding when they do the Mines... or at least with the trigger now to include the Mines... Better that way than forcing the player to go through some rigamarole that wasn't there in the first place. The roughness of the wilds already serves as an effective deterrent to veering off the main road that leads south to Nashkel, so it's not really an issue or change except for those who are good enough at BG (have already played it) to go off their own way...
@Avenger_teambg No, no, I never advanced to Chap1 before hitting AR5400, though I didn't think you needed the Chap2 trigger to get Emerson himself before- and seemingly needless if the Chap2 trigger is right there at the mines area itself. It's just that he's nowhere to be found. Checking again in 0829...
@SethDavis OK, I was mistaken... So now my earlier idea did go through of essentially forcing the player to go to Nashkel before heading to the mines... I was trying to avoid that- as well as all the other complications- just by adding the Chap 2 trigger to AR5400. It was the simplest solution. Now you can get the Chap 2 trigger, but still are forced to go to Nashkel to get Emerson to spawn... *sigh*
Problems: 1. Despite the guards advocating speaking to Emerson... there is no Emerson now... unless you speak to the mayor. And there's no way to know at that point how to spawn in Emerson. In fact, even if you do go talk to Ghastkill you have no idea that Emerson has now spawned. Lots of new players will be asking about this, and the extra railroading will not be liked either, not in a free-roaming game like BG1. This is why I did my about-face: it's not the right way to go about it. 2. Emerson now spawns facing south. 3. The Chap 2 trigger now becomes pointless to add to AR5400- and even a bit off-putting if it does nothing. You can now be in Chap 2 and investigating the mines just like the narration and clues up to this point have indicated, but you can't proceed and must look for arbitrary plot advancement technicalities instead...
I'd advocateg returning everything to vanilla except the Chap 2 trigger added to AR5400. Since the Chap will already be 2 at the point that you reach AR5400 that way, no extra scripting or dialog is necessary to make Emerson be there.
Ok, for next time it's changed to spawn Emmerson regardless to whether or not the player has spoken with the mayor. This should mean that the player can avoid nashkel, get to the mines, talk to emmerson, talk to the guards, the guards will create the entrance and the quest/story may progress. I hope....
@SethDavis Not really sure why we need to spawn Emerson at all. Better he's just there, and if you manage to circumnavigate Naskel and arrive at the mines, you're now already in Chap2 so all is well.
@Avenger_teambg This may not be implemented yet... which means you'd still have to spawn Emerson through BERRUN.DLG
@SethDavis Not really sure why we need to spawn Emerson at all. Better he's just there, and if you manage to circumnavigate Naskel and arrive at the mines, you're now already in Chap2 so all is well.
@Avenger_teambg This may not be implemented yet... which means you'd still have to spawn Emerson through BERRUN.DLG
No. 1. i talked to berrun 2. the only way berrun may have to be able to spawn emerson is a variable set by berrun which then picked up by the area script which spawns emerson. This part was removed from the script while emerson was not reinstated in the area.
sigh... i removed the physical change to the area file that stopped him from showing up, but that apparently only worked on my side for some reason....
@SethDavis I feel responsible for getting you into this mess... /:-( I wish I'd thought sooner of the Chap2 trigger extension to the mines. That would've solved it all without any other wrangling and been long since done by now. I think the best thing now is just to remove any spawning trigger and simply place Emerson where he was by his shack (from vBG1: 982, 1123- NW(6)). Since the Chap2 trigger is now guaranteed, everything will transpire as it should.
Ok, i've physically taken emmerson's actor entry from an older version of the area file and put it in the newest area file using near infinity and it looks like it worked. He's there, hes facing his favourite pile of rocks/whatever he's looking at and you can talk to him to get the guards to let you into the mine.
if this doesn't work I may switch my degree program to Librarian Sciences
Confirmed fixed. Going by Nashkel, speaking to major, going to Nashkel, avoiding the major, or avoiding Nashkel altogether, all results in the mines being open for you.
Confirmed fixed! Arrive directly to Mines- get Chap 2 narration. Go to mines entrance, talk to guards- they say talk to Emerson. Emerson at his cozy mine owner's shack. Emerson says ok. Go to mines entrance, but guards blocking way. Talk to guards again- they say ok. Entrance spawns. :-)
(Now I just have to stop making elaborate fix proposals before simple ones...)
I killed the guards, since they were in the way. Now I read that you have to talk to the guards to enter the mine? Isn't that kind of silly? .. sucks because I didn't even realize the mines were still closed off.. I just wandered/cleared 5-6 other areas and then came back when I figured out the story progression had to be through the mines.
Comments
Does the entrance spawn if you've gotten to AR5400 without going through Nashkel? That's the OP issue: the requisite of the Chap 2 trigger. Has it allowed a bypass of Chap 2 entirely?
What @SethDavis is asking is whether you'll sign off on the extension of the Nashkel-Carnival Chap 2 trigger to AR5400. This means it can be fixed the easy way with no further fuss. You and I were opposed to moving the Chap 2 trigger to the Mines, but are you willing to see the Chap 2 trigger include the Mines. The issue about it being a short Chap are irrelevant then (since you can get the same trigger in Nashkel or the Carnival anyway) and if the player has found some way to bypass both Nashkel and the Carnival to reach AR5400 they had to have already shortened their available Chap 2 by lengthening Chap 1.
Gah- ignore last comment... didn't know you'd replied (on a very slow computer at work)
@Avenger_teambg
So remove the Chap 2 trigger from the Carnival? If you enter the Carnival you get no Minsc either. Then again I never recruited Minsc until yrs later, never was a fan of his.
@SethDavis
I agree with @Avenger_teambg that the entrance should spawn when you talk to the guards after talking to Emerson, and not just by talking to Emerson. Its not a big deal though.
They will let you in, when Emmerson tells them to let you in.
Maintains the chain of command, fixes the bumping problem, etc.
Ah, i guess, you went around the carnival and Naskel. I never did that, i couldn't find a way.
No, no, I never advanced to Chap1 before hitting AR5400, though I didn't think you needed the Chap2 trigger to get Emerson himself before- and seemingly needless if the Chap2 trigger is right there at the mines area itself. It's just that he's nowhere to be found. Checking again in 0829...
@SethDavis
OK, I was mistaken... So now my earlier idea did go through of essentially forcing the player to go to Nashkel before heading to the mines... I was trying to avoid that- as well as all the other complications- just by adding the Chap 2 trigger to AR5400. It was the simplest solution. Now you can get the Chap 2 trigger, but still are forced to go to Nashkel to get Emerson to spawn... *sigh*
Problems:
1. Despite the guards advocating speaking to Emerson... there is no Emerson now... unless you speak to the mayor. And there's no way to know at that point how to spawn in Emerson. In fact, even if you do go talk to Ghastkill you have no idea that Emerson has now spawned. Lots of new players will be asking about this, and the extra railroading will not be liked either, not in a free-roaming game like BG1. This is why I did my about-face: it's not the right way to go about it.
2. Emerson now spawns facing south.
3. The Chap 2 trigger now becomes pointless to add to AR5400- and even a bit off-putting if it does nothing. You can now be in Chap 2 and investigating the mines just like the narration and clues up to this point have indicated, but you can't proceed and must look for arbitrary plot advancement technicalities instead...
I'd advocateg returning everything to vanilla except the Chap 2 trigger added to AR5400. Since the Chap will already be 2 at the point that you reach AR5400 that way, no extra scripting or dialog is necessary to make Emerson be there.
Have a pity on him!
He isn't in the area actor section, nor in the area script. So, what would spawn him?
Not really sure why we need to spawn Emerson at all. Better he's just there, and if you manage to circumnavigate Naskel and arrive at the mines, you're now already in Chap2 so all is well.
@Avenger_teambg
This may not be implemented yet... which means you'd still have to spawn Emerson through BERRUN.DLG
1. i talked to berrun
2. the only way berrun may have to be able to spawn emerson is a variable set by berrun which then picked up by the area script which spawns emerson. This part was removed from the script while emerson was not reinstated in the area.
I feel responsible for getting you into this mess... /:-( I wish I'd thought sooner of the Chap2 trigger extension to the mines. That would've solved it all without any other wrangling and been long since done by now. I think the best thing now is just to remove any spawning trigger and simply place Emerson where he was by his shack (from vBG1: 982, 1123- NW(6)). Since the Chap2 trigger is now guaranteed, everything will transpire as it should.
if this doesn't work I may switch my degree program to Librarian Sciences
@Avenger_teambg Is this still a problem? In my fresh build Emerson spawns but it's not necessary to talk to him for the guards to let you in.
Going by Nashkel, speaking to major, going to Nashkel, avoiding the major, or avoiding Nashkel altogether, all results in the mines being open for you.
Confirmed fixed! Arrive directly to Mines- get Chap 2 narration. Go to mines entrance, talk to guards- they say talk to Emerson. Emerson at his cozy mine owner's shack. Emerson says ok. Go to mines entrance, but guards blocking way. Talk to guards again- they say ok. Entrance spawns. :-)
(Now I just have to stop making elaborate fix proposals before simple ones...)
I killed the guards, since they were in the way. Now I read that you have to talk to the guards to enter the mine? Isn't that kind of silly? .. sucks because I didn't even realize the mines were still closed off.. I just wandered/cleared 5-6 other areas and then came back when I figured out the story progression had to be through the mines.
Is there anyway for me to get into the mines now?