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Saving throws rolls

Hello!

I've a question regarding the saving throws in the game.

I'm using an enchanter, which gives me a bonus of -2 to enemy saves vs enchantment spells.

Thus, the level 1 sleep spell makes enemies save vs death of a totalt of -5 (the spell is -3 and specialization is -2). I think that's the general assumption.

So, I just fought 2 wolves. Both saved vs. death (they rolled 14 and 15). I checked their respective resistances at EEKeeper. Wolves save vs death at 13.

This should mean, with all the bonuses from the enchanter specialization, that wolves can only save vs death of a total roll of 18, correct?

So, I wonder, how is the saves calculated in the game? When does the wizard specializations apply etc.

As it is, it seems that no save bonuses are actually applied - or that the sleep spell is giving us the wrong information in the spell description.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

Comments

  • Wizard_DnDWizard_DnD Member Posts: 10
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    Here is another example with a gibberling. They have a save vs Death of 14. They rolled 14 vs my sleep spell - but with all the bonuses applied, they should have to roll a total of 19, right?

  • monicomonico Member Posts: 413
    edited February 5
    As if saving throws mechanics were not headache-inducing enough, even the feedback is counter-intuitive :sweat_smile:

    I've wondered about saving throws feedback recently too, and @kjeron clarified it as well, but I still have difficulties playing around the feedback ingame.

    The way I see it:
    - if the enemy fails his save, there is no feedback (sadly, it would be useful information), the enemy is affected by the spell/effect.
    - if there is no feedback AND no effect to your spell, no need to insist : it probably means your enemy is immune anyway (useful for sleep spell for example, it means that specific enemy is level 5 or higher)
    - logically, it means that if you get a feedback, the enemy has successfully saved against your spell.

    Now, how to understand the number shown:
    - the number shown is the END check, after all modifiers have been applied, and if the total number is equal or higher than the saving throw value of the target, the save is successful.
    For example: if you cast Chromatic Orb and a 16 number is shown without any other modifier, it means that the enemy rolled a 10, and the +6 bonus from CO was added on top of that. Since you had a feedback, you know that the enemy has 16 OR LESS saving throw vs. spell.
    It means that sometimes, you can see a displayed saving throw above 20.
    - Now, and here starts the headache: on the other hand, if you throw a Silence 15' spell (enemies save at -5, highest modifier I can think of right now), without any other bonus/malus, the number shown on your feedback would be the roll -5, so if you see Save vs Spell : 10, it actually meant they rolled a 15, and their Saving Throw is 10 or less.

    - Long story short, the only fast and reliable info you can deduce from the feedback is that the enemy has saving throws AT or LOWER than the number shown.
    ... At least, that's how I understand it...

    Hence, if you see a feedback (remember, it means the enemy has successfully saved) with a relatively low number, you can deduce that the enemy has great saving throws.
    If they successfully save with a high number shown on your feedback, you don't know their actual saving throw value, but you can hope that they just got really lucky and might want to try again.

    And now I have an headache...

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