Why are Wizard Slayers considerec so bad?
Noloir
Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 380
As the title above, why are Wizard Slayers considered bad? Just made a party in Black Pits with a Blackguard, a Sorceror, and a WS dualed nto a WS/Cleric and it functions reasonably well. What it lacks in magic item accessibility it makes up for in divine buffing. The emphasis on armour,helms, & boots nudges players to outfit the character with the best equiptment available (instead of using full plate mail with a minor enchanting ring/ammy/cloak) making it a rock solid tank that can shut dowm enemy spellcasters from afar with marginal innate magic resistance. Why does it receieve so much hate?
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Normally, Wizard Slayers suffer from not being able to use some of the really good miscellaneous items (Strength-increasing items, Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise, spell resistance potions, Ring of Free Action, Greenstone Amulet). Some of these holes can be filled with the proper planning, though (e.g. making a Wizard Slayer/Cleric as you did, putting points in two-handed swords for Spider's Bane, using innate Draw Upon Holy Might, or having an ally buff the Wizard Slayer).
If you are able to get a very high level WS they become an extremely strong class - even solo. The lack of AC is less important in the later game given the availability of high physical resistance, while GWWs can offset the lack of improved haste and saving throws are also much less important when you can have MR of 100%+ - getting there takes a while though ...
'cause those people forgot to use darts.
13% from WS ability
10% Ring of Gaxx
10% Amulet Seldarine
20% Human Flesh +5
10% Trial of Bhaal
5% Lum Maching
30% Purifier
5% there are a couple of shields that give 5% resistance or you could steal Viconia's holy symbol ring or dual wield another weapon that gives MR like Hindo's doom.
103% MR total. Of course this is if you really value MR.
Yeah, was just thinking that. About 3pts resist instead of 1 or 5 bonus resist every 2 levels to give it viability. Through potions and scrolls characters can make themeselves immune to magic. Makes little sense as to restrict the Wizard Slayer's MR in this regard. Especially when it's anything but a Fighter/Thief dual-class.
It's a fair trade-off depending on what it's dualed into. Although it'll lack the 100% MR as a purist as a Fighter/Cleric it can selectively boost it's own MR. Granted Berz/Cler and multi Fighter/Clerics can do the same but I've never been inclined to used the MR spell with them since they have access to potions anyway.
It's not the "best" class in the game but it does have it unconventional niche making it more fun in a way. Instead of just gulping every potion down and hammering away there's more strategic thought required to get the most out of the kit.
As a thief dual, 100% is more easily obtained by using Carsomyr than the Purifier, though you need to switch weapons if you want to backstab (and it's then a pain having to unequip and re-equip items to get their MR to apply again).
Might be good for me to try it anyway, learn some new strategies.
That being said, Beamdog fixed it so that Miscast Magic effect works on ranged attacks too, and ranged fighters are slightly less gear dependent, so some people feel a Wizard Slayer with a bow and arrow makes a surprisingly powerful adversary. I hear Arrows of Dispelling and the Miscast Magic effect make a potent cocktail.
Under thorough examination the WS ranged ability to inflict miscast magic penetrates though mage protections like stoneskin & mirror image (for better or worse) like the old poison weapon ability. It's pretty interesting as a ranged character build.
On the other hand, their defensive capabilities are absolutely terrible without going WS -> Thief. No Invisibility potions, no Potions of Invulnerability, no Potions of Genius (Mindflayers say hi), no Cloak of Reflection, no Greenstone Amulet, no Belt of Inertial Barrier, no Fire Resistance potions/rings, no Electricity resistance... Also, their offensive capabilities are innately worse vs anything that's not a caster. Fortunately, casters make up a ton of the actual threats in the game, so...
If you attack enemies indirectly (like using Fire Seeds, exploding arrows or the Big Metal Rod), you can also bypass PfMW - providing a handy way to quickly shut down liches at the start of a battle.
Maybe they're meant to heavily favor distance combat. Up close they're lacking as purists but from from afar they're a problem. Particularly for enemy casters. Maybe to make the most of them they ought to be treated as Archers with less damage output. Complemented by whenever class they dual into, if any.
In Pen and Paper they have a sort of Paladin like situation going on. If they knowingly allow themselves to be effected by a positive spell, they lose all their Wizard Slayer abilities for 24 hours.
As bad as the Wizard Slayer restrictions are in Baldur's Gate, it could've been worse.
How do they come to become Wizard Slayers at all since they"re so magic averse according to PnP?
Yukari is messing around again.
Eirin's Shady New Drug.
It's a Moriya Shrine Conspiracy.
Templates like this are forbidden.
Does the miscast ability impact summoning? Like Amelyssan or Behifet summoning demons? If so, I can see good potential in WS with grand mastery in bows.
What isn’t screwed up are innate abilities and things cast by a force script rather than normal spell mechanics. Dragon Fear and Wing Buffet, Mummy fear, Beholder rays, Mindflayer psionic attacks are all non-interruptible by Miscast Magic. I want to say a lot of demons cast things by forced script, though I could be wrong on that front.
Edit: thinking about it, the confusion may be because you've seen the miscast magic icon appearing on divine casters when hit by a WS. It is the case that this icon appears on any character hit by the WS (whether a caster or not) to show that they've been subject to the WS ability, but only arcane casters are actually affected by that ability.
Then again, mechanics knowledge back then was absolutely horrid and many people claimed that hitting a Mirror Image would stop the Arcane Spell Failure from a WS, so...
Agree but the discussion here is more of how can a WS be good vs which class if better.
There were no changes in who it could affect or the extent of that effect from vanilla BG2 (though the character description in that wrongly said that the % failure was 15%, not 25% per blow). There was a big change though in allowing ranged as well as melee attacks to cause miscast magic.
There's a term for that kind of gameplay I forget, but when the Players fight the Boss of the dungeon, it's not truly meant to be a duel between equals, like if they were opposing players in a game of Call of Duty. The player and the dungeon master each have different roles in this gameplay experience, which sometimes comes with different or more rights and privileges.