Melf's Minute Meteors and FM

gorgonzola

the FM multi can cast Melf's Minute Meteors and has a good thac0 to use them.
under improved haste the meteors give him 10 apr doing 1d4+3 dmg + 3 fire dmg.
as side effect the enemy is slowed by the animations from taking elemental damage, and as it happens 10 times/round it is something noticeable. Enough that an other fighter can bash him with a long reach weapon while staying far enough of his reach in most situations.
the FM can also disrupt at will a mage, just sending to him a couple of meteors, then can focus again on his main target, freeing the main party mage from that task.

10 * (2.5+3+3)= 85 dmg/round on average is not so impressive if compared to what an archer can do, but it is probably better then the damage that some FM can pull of from their ranged weapon of choice if they are only proficient in that weapon.
MMM don't need to spend points in them so the FM is free to use his pips to be specialized in more mlee weapons, as he can not reach GM so can focus on more choices, there are so many good mlee weapons and some work better against specific enemies.

if imo MMM is one of the best ranged weapons for a CM, that can boost his thac0 easily and get a kai like effect for 100 dmg/round, while a mage will miss often, i almost never use it with my FMs, and maybe i should.
MMM is also probably a very good option for a kensai->M as coupled with kai he gets the same output then the CM and he is prevented to use ranged weapons if not the returning ones.

what is your opinion about it?
did someone of you try that option? how did it work?

monico

On my recent FMT run I started using MMM, but with the low level of multiclasses, and the very high APR, I found that I spent too much time re-casting MMM’s in fights and thus emptying my lvl3 spellbook too fast.

It was powerful, but not powerful enough to replace Slow + normal weapons (well, as a fighter/mage multi, APR is never a problem)

Danacm

I used it well with a blade, because of fast leveling. I loved it.

Mathsorcerer

If you are not using any mod that nerfs the meteors (I think SCS lowers the enchantment level from 6 down to 2), then MMM is a great way to deal with many high-level threats. Haste + MMM is even a good way to take down everyone's favorite demilich.

OlvynChuru

It could be good, but the spell only gives you one meteor per level. So if you attack 10 times per round, you'll use up all the meteors in about a round.

Getting a large number of meteors takes a lot of experience for a fighter/mage. Unless you're soloing, a fighter/mage gains mage levels really slowly past mage level 11. Even when they start getting HLAs, they only have 14 meteors.

Mathsorcerer

I will have to double-check, but I think Spell Sequencer will allow you to cast triple MMM, which does not remove the meteor item from your inventory; this would give the caster 42 meteors at 14th level, or 28 if you stacked the Haste as the third spell.

gorgonzola

@Mathsorcerer i did try it, but in my 2.3.67.3 game version is possible to put 3 MMM spells in a sequencer. but the meteors don't stack, both if i cast them 3 times normally and if i do it trough the sequencer.
bg wiki tells that in EE they can stack up to 80 meteors, so possibly it is something introduced only after the version i am using now.
i should backup my installation, as i have playtroughs that i want to complete with the same setting i begun them, and upgrade the game to check, but as some other player that has the latest version updated can do it easily i will not do it.

Mathsorcerer

I am at work, so I will have to check my version when I get home and will let you know what I find out. I am hoping they stack, but I am not going to bet any money on it.

gorgonzola

OlvynChuru wrote: »

It could be good, but the spell only gives you one meteor per level. So if you attack 10 times per round, you'll use up all the meteors in about a round.

this is true, but late game you have almost 2 rounds at GWW apr rate, and even earlier to have 1 round at that rate.
sparing GWW, that with a ranged weapon that carry str bonus is certainly more damaging, at the cost of a lev 3 spell can maybe be a good trade.
at least for FM that have the bulk of their pips in mlee weapons.
when you decide for some reason to use a ranged approach instead of going mlee some rounds of hasted MMM on top of some GWW with a sling-returning weapon to carry the str bonus can be an option.
also for the dual classes GWW is not an option, if they don't have specialization or Gmastery in a ranged weapon for them the MMM are probably the only way to have a high apr ranged.

as i told in the OP post i almost never do it, this because i build my fighter dual or multi for the maximum versatility, probably for a kensage i try to reach GM in the preferred mlee weapon and dagger that give to me a ranged option, and for a dual i go for specialization in sling, to do huge ranged dmg using GWW with high str and the best sling and ammo i have.

but still i ask myself if for some builds that don't really cover ranged options MMM is the way to go when a ranged approach is the best for the given situation.

Mathsorcerer

The best ranged weapon outside of MMM is probably the Sling of Everard--unlimited ench 5 bullets (even if they do only 1d4+2 dmg--but you do get the extra damage from strength). Its only drawback is that it sets your base APR to 1. Still....I have had Viconia at 100 MR solo the demilich with this sling, which is hilarious.

gorgonzola

it also get the bonus damage from the bullet enchantment, like the other slings, if you use it with bullets.
having to choose only one ranged weapon probably the SoE would be my choice, very high damage when used with bullets, can hit up to demiliches and does not consume ammo when high dpm is not needed.

Danacm

If you use vanilla meteors, the +6 enchantment is useful too. I always change back this even is scs installs.

Mathsorcerer

@gorgonzola I have 2.5.15.6 and the meteors do not stack, which is a shame. I want to say they did in the original pre-ToB engine but that was a long time ago, back when the "drain item charges" opcode would take negative numbers and allow you to recharge items.