I don't really get the ''too epic'', ''I prefer low level start'' type comments on this thread and others. Whilst the main story appears to be epic and is set at a high type level, that doesn't mean you immediately start the game fighting dragons either.
Just looking at a little of the game play, you can see you do start a little slowly. You're not just going to be thrown in with dragons straight away. I also really like the cinematics, a little bit of a doubter when it comes to other parts of the game however.
You mean in terms of content, i.e., thwarting an alien invasion? I mean that's fundamentally the same as a war going on as the backdrop for a story.
Not for nothing in BG1 charname saves the world by defeating Sarevok and thwarting Bhaal's resurrection plan.
Well, but you are comparing the finale of BG 1 with the opening of BG 3. I do not mind epicness, but I think you should work your way there.
It doesn't really matter much, but BG1 charname certainly did not save the world in any way. He mainly stopped local war, which would have been tragic and senseless, but still very local. It's very dubious whether Sarevok's plan had any chance to work - even if it had then either Sarevok or a ressurrected Bhaal would have reclaimed the portfolio of Murder from Cyric.
I doubt it makes that big of a difference whether Murder is embodied by Sarevok, Bhaal or Cyric. They are all equally evil jackasses.
Great graphics, high production value. In my personal opinion: too epic for as an opening for a start at level 1 campaign.
Definitely agree on the misgivings about the epicness, though perhaps for different reasons. I don't expect this game to be a low level adventure. I'm pretty sure they're trying to build something on the scale of the OS games, a 1-20 type adventure. This was never going to be akin to low level adventure of BG1.
As well, the opening setup could produce a ton of low level content. You're essentially cast off into a scrubby desert-like area outside of Baldur's Gate, with your only quest being "find a healer". That could easily be a long couple of chapters of some pretty bog standard BG1 style wilderness questing.
That being said, the bigger problem with throwing all this epic content in the opening video is that it leaves the game with a lot less mystery. Once you show the player mind flayer ships, alternate planes and dragons, you have little else to surprise the player with for later content, unless you get truly absurd. It's sort of an inflation problem.
As well, I think it breaks with the lore of the setting in some ways -- making epic and rare creatures commonplace. Oh well, this is personal taste for sure. And I still hold out some hope that maybe the opening cinematic is a tease of some late game stuff and the first half of the game has something of BG1's restraint.
Maximum level is another concern for me. I also suspect you will get to level 20 or so by the end - seems to sort of require for this sort of threat. But I strongly prefer the slower leveling pace of BG and the Goldbox games.
Great graphics, high production value. In my personal opinion: too epic for as an opening for a start at level 1 campaign.
Definitely agree on the misgivings about the epicness, though perhaps for different reasons. I don't expect this game to be a low level adventure. I'm pretty sure they're trying to build something on the scale of the OS games, a 1-20 type adventure. This was never going to be akin to low level adventure of BG1.
As well, the opening setup could produce a ton of low level content. You're essentially cast off into a scrubby desert-like area outside of Baldur's Gate, with your only quest being "find a healer". That could easily be a long couple of chapters of some pretty bog standard BG1 style wilderness questing.
That being said, the bigger problem with throwing all this epic content in the opening video is that it leaves the game with a lot less mystery. Once you show the player mind flayer ships, alternate planes and dragons, you have little else to surprise the player with for later content, unless you get truly absurd. It's sort of an inflation problem.
As well, I think it breaks with the lore of the setting in some ways -- making epic and rare creatures commonplace. Oh well, this is personal taste for sure. And I still hold out some hope that maybe the opening cinematic is a tease of some late game stuff and the first half of the game has something of BG1's restraint.
I'm 100% here with you and @Ammar - I'd prefer to start lower level and deal with smaller threats. I dont need it to be rats in a warehouse or anything, but this is a bit too grand for my tastes.
That said, it's only hindrance, I wouldn't say this dooms the game to failure (not that anyone present in this thread is making the argument). They can definitely still make a compelling story out of this. Hopefully things calm down and allow for a "reset" of sorts, so that level 2 or 3 is more about goblins and kobolds than mindflayers and dragons.
I do get the "overly epic too soon" complaint. Given that the character hook is "OMG you're infected with ceremorphosis!", it does lend a certain weight to your quest that pretty much excludes the classic "So you're all there in a tavern..." low-level approach where you go out into the world and adventure at your own pace, slowly getting caught up in a grand world-shaking plot. It doesn't bother me THAT much, but that's because I've been playing RPGs and custom modules for decades now and so I kind of have a "I've seen it all" attitude. XD What usually hooks me into a game nowadays are great stories and characters, not so much the "I come from humble beginnings, but watch where I end up!" hero's journey. But I understand that some people might have been looking for that kind of experience again, and I'm sorry that it looks like BG3 won't be that game. (If it had, I'd have enjoyed it too regardless, I'm sure.)
Great graphics, high production value. In my personal opinion: too epic for as an opening for a start at level 1 campaign.
Definitely agree on the misgivings about the epicness, though perhaps for different reasons. I don't expect this game to be a low level adventure. I'm pretty sure they're trying to build something on the scale of the OS games, a 1-20 type adventure. This was never going to be akin to low level adventure of BG1.
As well, the opening setup could produce a ton of low level content. You're essentially cast off into a scrubby desert-like area outside of Baldur's Gate, with your only quest being "find a healer". That could easily be a long couple of chapters of some pretty bog standard BG1 style wilderness questing.
That being said, the bigger problem with throwing all this epic content in the opening video is that it leaves the game with a lot less mystery. Once you show the player mind flayer ships, alternate planes and dragons, you have little else to surprise the player with for later content, unless you get truly absurd. It's sort of an inflation problem.
As well, I think it breaks with the lore of the setting in some ways -- making epic and rare creatures commonplace. Oh well, this is personal taste for sure. And I still hold out some hope that maybe the opening cinematic is a tease of some late game stuff and the first half of the game has something of BG1's restraint.
It looks from Sven's demo that the game begins with the aftermath of the nautiloid ship crash that we see in the cinematic opening. I'm fine with it, personally.
You mean in terms of content, i.e., thwarting an alien invasion? I mean that's fundamentally the same as a war going on as the backdrop for a story.
Not for nothing in BG1 charname saves the world by defeating Sarevok and thwarting Bhaal's resurrection plan.
Well, but you are comparing the finale of BG 1 with the opening of BG 3. I do not mind epicness, but I think you should work your way there.
It doesn't really matter much, but BG1 charname certainly did not save the world in any way. He mainly stopped local war, which would have been tragic and senseless, but still very local. It's very dubious whether Sarevok's plan had any chance to work - even if it had then either Sarevok or a ressurrected Bhaal would have reclaimed the portfolio of Murder from Cyric.
I doubt it makes that big of a difference whether Murder is embodied by Sarevok, Bhaal or Cyric. They are all equally evil jackasses.
No, I hear you. BG1 to start you simply set out into the wilderness, almost immediately on your own, green as can be, having no idea what the hell is going on. I just meant that the events of BG1 will ultimatley have charname identified wth such monikers as the "Hero of Baldur's Gate" and "Savior of the Sword Coast," and so on.
Skyrim started with a dragon and it did not become less of a success because of it. I think we just need to see how it all unfolds
I guess that's part of the reason BG3 starts with dragons as well. Show the coolest/wowest stuff in the intro/trailers and people get hyped and buy it.
I do think it diminishes the quality of the game journey (and so the overall quality of the game) but without a doubt it increases sales. You can't have it all. It's an understandable trade-off which I happen to dislike.
Skyrim is a very different kind of game - and it is basically a "You are the chosen one" story. And despite that I still prefer the start of Morrowind if we look at TES games.
Sure, I will not discount those observations. What I think is that with the trailer and gameplay they intend to show the changed world compared to what we played with in 2nd and 3Rd edition games and I hope they continue to build the world around that much further.
Skyrim started with a dragon and it did not become less of a success because of it. I think we just need to see how it all unfolds
Yes, but how the characters reacted to the dragon and it actually being your first main quest (warn the yarl that there is a dragon flying about) allows that epicness to be part of the plot.
Only high ranking githyanki ride dragons. Why three of those were sent instead of astral skiffs which is usually sent in these situations? I will be completely annoyed if 'dragon riding' becomes part of the plot in BG3. You could have had the same dramatic effect if the city that was being attacked went to arms against the ship, firing bolts from large ballistas or even wizards using protective spells for the populace.
~
After reading up on Githyanki however, I found out that they live in the Astral plane in cities on the god-isles. God-isles are the corpses of dead deities. One has to wonder if one of these cities now reside atop Bhaal and that is how this game is going to tie in the original trilogy.
After reading up on Githyanki however, I found out that they live in the Astral plane in cities on the god-isles. God-isles are the corpses of dead deities. One has to wonder if one of these cities now reside atop Bhaal and that is how this game is going to tie in the original trilogy.
Don't quote on this as I'm not really that up to date on 5E, but I believe that in 5E Forgotten Realms, the Dead Three (Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul) are all alive again, walking the Realms in demigod form, or so I've heard.
To be honest though, I think at this point Larian would be better off not trying to tie BG3 into the Bhaalspawn saga at all. The main hook already is that the PC is afflicted with ceremorphosis (and if the screenshots of "Tadpole abilities" are any clue, it's going to form a MAJOR part of the game's mechanics and abilities), and trying to yank the story in too many directions (major plot directions, I mean) only results in both plot lines becoming weaker. I fully expect there to be some cameos by long-lived companions from the original games, and maybe a side-plot involving the Bhaal priesthood (or even Bhaal himself, if the game gets high enough in levels), but it won't be the central crux of the game's plot.
"Don't quote on this as I'm not really that up to date on 5E, but I believe that in 5E Forgotten Realms, the Dead Three (Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul) are all alive again, walking the Realms in demigod form, or so I've heard."
Yup, all alive. The dumbest thing 5e did, imo.
"To be honest though, I think at this point Larian would be better off not trying to tie BG3 into the Bhaalspawn saga at all."
Didn't stop them from marketing it as a sequel.
"The main hook already is that the PC is afflicted with ceremorphosis (and if the screenshots of "Tadpole abilities" are any clue, it's going to form a MAJOR part of the game's mechanics and abilities),"
Isn't that supposed to kill the host in hours though? And why would the Illithid's method of reproduction give their prey powers that make them better able to combat them? This is just pure stupid on so many levels.
Normally, it does, but there seems to be some story reason why it does not. Either something stops/slow the process or the Illithid from the intro had another purpose for giving them to you. On that point I would advise holding judgment for now, though admittedly the NPCs should be in more of a rush to get it out of their heads.
What I am more skeptical about is that they seem to be using the Tadpole as the reason to give the characters new powers that seem to be inspired pretty strongly from D:OS, like the super jump shoves. Let me make a wild prediction on which I am 50:50 myself: if you progress in the game the tadpole will give you 1 or more additional actions per round.
OTH giving the player very limited telepathic abilities might be interesting.
Probably they all die from ceremorphosis within chapter one and daddy squidface becomes the main protagonist and you go through epic dimensional portals fighting illithid spawn everywhere
The trailer did show that the Nautiloid ship was filled with dead illithids, so it's possible that these particular tadpoles are a weakened strain (perhaps they're afflicted with some kind of disease?) I keep thinking back to the Thoon illithid plot from back in 3E, about a group of mind flayers who traveled to the Far Realm (think an Outer Plane filled with reality-bending Cthulhu'esque influences) and came back... changed. On the surface they looked the same, but they were all singing the praises of something called "Thoon". Whether Thoon is a god, a demon, a philosophy or something else is unknown. (When interrogated, all the Thoon illithids say on the matter is "Thoon is everything, and Thoon is all.") Regardless, these Thoon illithids were declared heretical by the Elder Brains, but their strange new powers and technology that they returned from the Far Realm with meant they couldn't be completely eradicated. What if this Nautiloid ship in fact belongs to one of the Thoon sects of illithids, and thus their process of ceremorphosis was altered somehow?
I think it's a great intro, and disagree it's too epic for the start of a Lvl 1 campaign. It introduces the bad guys, the stakes and sets the tone well enough. It's really cool. I only wonder if the intro changes if you choose to play Lae'zel as an origin story. I seriously doubt it, but it'd be cool.
Anyway, I'm a big sucker for a well-produced CGI intro so this is just a plus for me.
The intro looks nice, but the "you have a time limit before you become an Illithid" bothers me. I hate the "you need to keep things moving or else" feel I get from the tadpole insertion.
This is in medias res on steroids, and I personally can't stand any story I'm partaking in starting out this way, regardless of the expected power level of the main characters. In my eyes, stories have to earn my caring about the stakes, and going all the way out with unbelievable action setpieces like this sets a tone that I don't care for in general, and especially not in a CRPG, and especially especially not in something called Baldur's Gate.
My experience when I watched the intro on someone's youtube channel was that when the dragon riders came out of the portal and everything started imploding/exploding, my eyes started to glaze over and all I could think of was the chapter text narration after Gorion's death in BG1, and how very little it needed to do to set the perfect mood for a new adventure.
Lemernis
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Not for nothing in BG1 charname saves the world by defeating Sarevok and thwarting Bhaal's resurrection plan.
Starting off with dragons, flying alien ships, burning battlefield, capturing an alien ship - way too much.
Just looking at a little of the game play, you can see you do start a little slowly. You're not just going to be thrown in with dragons straight away. I also really like the cinematics, a little bit of a doubter when it comes to other parts of the game however.
Well, but you are comparing the finale of BG 1 with the opening of BG 3. I do not mind epicness, but I think you should work your way there.
It doesn't really matter much, but BG1 charname certainly did not save the world in any way. He mainly stopped local war, which would have been tragic and senseless, but still very local. It's very dubious whether Sarevok's plan had any chance to work - even if it had then either Sarevok or a ressurrected Bhaal would have reclaimed the portfolio of Murder from Cyric.
I doubt it makes that big of a difference whether Murder is embodied by Sarevok, Bhaal or Cyric. They are all equally evil jackasses.
Definitely agree on the misgivings about the epicness, though perhaps for different reasons. I don't expect this game to be a low level adventure. I'm pretty sure they're trying to build something on the scale of the OS games, a 1-20 type adventure. This was never going to be akin to low level adventure of BG1.
As well, the opening setup could produce a ton of low level content. You're essentially cast off into a scrubby desert-like area outside of Baldur's Gate, with your only quest being "find a healer". That could easily be a long couple of chapters of some pretty bog standard BG1 style wilderness questing.
That being said, the bigger problem with throwing all this epic content in the opening video is that it leaves the game with a lot less mystery. Once you show the player mind flayer ships, alternate planes and dragons, you have little else to surprise the player with for later content, unless you get truly absurd. It's sort of an inflation problem.
As well, I think it breaks with the lore of the setting in some ways -- making epic and rare creatures commonplace. Oh well, this is personal taste for sure. And I still hold out some hope that maybe the opening cinematic is a tease of some late game stuff and the first half of the game has something of BG1's restraint.
I'm 100% here with you and @Ammar - I'd prefer to start lower level and deal with smaller threats. I dont need it to be rats in a warehouse or anything, but this is a bit too grand for my tastes.
That said, it's only hindrance, I wouldn't say this dooms the game to failure (not that anyone present in this thread is making the argument). They can definitely still make a compelling story out of this. Hopefully things calm down and allow for a "reset" of sorts, so that level 2 or 3 is more about goblins and kobolds than mindflayers and dragons.
It looks from Sven's demo that the game begins with the aftermath of the nautiloid ship crash that we see in the cinematic opening. I'm fine with it, personally.
No, I hear you. BG1 to start you simply set out into the wilderness, almost immediately on your own, green as can be, having no idea what the hell is going on. I just meant that the events of BG1 will ultimatley have charname identified wth such monikers as the "Hero of Baldur's Gate" and "Savior of the Sword Coast," and so on.
I guess that's part of the reason BG3 starts with dragons as well. Show the coolest/wowest stuff in the intro/trailers and people get hyped and buy it.
I do think it diminishes the quality of the game journey (and so the overall quality of the game) but without a doubt it increases sales. You can't have it all. It's an understandable trade-off which I happen to dislike.
Yes, but how the characters reacted to the dragon and it actually being your first main quest (warn the yarl that there is a dragon flying about) allows that epicness to be part of the plot.
Only high ranking githyanki ride dragons. Why three of those were sent instead of astral skiffs which is usually sent in these situations? I will be completely annoyed if 'dragon riding' becomes part of the plot in BG3. You could have had the same dramatic effect if the city that was being attacked went to arms against the ship, firing bolts from large ballistas or even wizards using protective spells for the populace.
~
After reading up on Githyanki however, I found out that they live in the Astral plane in cities on the god-isles. God-isles are the corpses of dead deities. One has to wonder if one of these cities now reside atop Bhaal and that is how this game is going to tie in the original trilogy.
Don't quote on this as I'm not really that up to date on 5E, but I believe that in 5E Forgotten Realms, the Dead Three (Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul) are all alive again, walking the Realms in demigod form, or so I've heard.
To be honest though, I think at this point Larian would be better off not trying to tie BG3 into the Bhaalspawn saga at all. The main hook already is that the PC is afflicted with ceremorphosis (and if the screenshots of "Tadpole abilities" are any clue, it's going to form a MAJOR part of the game's mechanics and abilities), and trying to yank the story in too many directions (major plot directions, I mean) only results in both plot lines becoming weaker. I fully expect there to be some cameos by long-lived companions from the original games, and maybe a side-plot involving the Bhaal priesthood (or even Bhaal himself, if the game gets high enough in levels), but it won't be the central crux of the game's plot.
Yup, all alive. The dumbest thing 5e did, imo.
"To be honest though, I think at this point Larian would be better off not trying to tie BG3 into the Bhaalspawn saga at all."
Didn't stop them from marketing it as a sequel.
"The main hook already is that the PC is afflicted with ceremorphosis (and if the screenshots of "Tadpole abilities" are any clue, it's going to form a MAJOR part of the game's mechanics and abilities),"
Isn't that supposed to kill the host in hours though? And why would the Illithid's method of reproduction give their prey powers that make them better able to combat them? This is just pure stupid on so many levels.
What I am more skeptical about is that they seem to be using the Tadpole as the reason to give the characters new powers that seem to be inspired pretty strongly from D:OS, like the super jump shoves. Let me make a wild prediction on which I am 50:50 myself: if you progress in the game the tadpole will give you 1 or more additional actions per round.
OTH giving the player very limited telepathic abilities might be interesting.
Anyway, I'm a big sucker for a well-produced CGI intro so this is just a plus for me.
My experience when I watched the intro on someone's youtube channel was that when the dragon riders came out of the portal and everything started imploding/exploding, my eyes started to glaze over and all I could think of was the chapter text narration after Gorion's death in BG1, and how very little it needed to do to set the perfect mood for a new adventure.