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[SPOILER] Is ______ Cloak the best in the game?

NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 377
Is Nymph Cloak single handedly the best in the game? With this Cloak alone a non-enchanter player can charm an army of creatures at their beck & call without risk of them turning aggressive as below. Literally exceeding the summoned monsters count but not counting towards it! Does that make it the strongest?9fruof0t3izv.png

ZaxaresShangeroo

Comments

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,192
    Probably. Not like there's much competition in the cloak department.

    Notably in BG1 algernon's cloak was bugged. When you used its last charge, it just looped back around to max charges, effectively giving it infinite charges. You could trivialize the whole game just by charming everything that ever attacked you.

    In the enhanced edition they've fixed that bug so it gives the proper 1 use a day though, so in order to create a scene like in that screen shot you'd need to memorize a bunch of charm spells too. The cloak would only be responsible for one of those guys.

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 377
    Algornon's Cloak work's as normal. The cloak from Ragefast's quest at 40 natural charges is responsible for this scene. Algornon is far more practical for battle as it's a ranged effect instead of a touch one, though.

    Chronicler
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,192
    I was skeptical, but a brief google brought up a lot of people corroborating your point. Thought for sure Algernon's cloak and the Nymph's cloak functioned identically in the enhanced editions.

    Of course, to make use of the 40 charges repeatedly, you have to use the exploit where you sell it to a merchant and buy it back with full charges. Different people feel differently about that, but if you want it to be it can be just as gamebreaking as Algernon's Cloak in the originals. Though since it's a late game item, there will be less game left to break by the time you get to it.

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 377
    Chronicler wrote: »
    I was skeptical, but a brief google brought up a lot of people corroborating your point. Thought for sure Algernon's cloak and the Nymph's cloak functioned identically in the enhanced editions.

    Of course, to make use of the 40 charges repeatedly, you have to use the exploit where you sell it to a merchant and buy it back with full charges. Different people feel differently about that, but if you want it to be it can be just as gamebreaking as Algernon's Cloak in the originals. Though since it's a late game item, there will be less game left to break by the time you get to it.

    In the current EE update there are two Nymph cloaks. For whatever reason instead of being allowed to bring a lock of the Nymph's hair to Halbazzer Drin the Nymph just gives the player a cloak directly.

    The original cloak from Drin wasn't removed so a sticky fingered thief could paw it off him give the player a total access of 80 charges without using the store exploit.

    ChroniclerBalrog99sarevok57
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,192
    Interesting!

    Weird that they'd get rid of the lock of Nymph's hair though. Wonder why they did that?

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 475
    There are two outcomes there. If you kill Ragefast and free the nymph, you get the cloak directly. If you talk Ragefast into letting her go without violence, you get the hair.

    ChroniclerThacoBellsarevok57
  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 377
    jmerry wrote: »
    There are two outcomes there. If you kill Ragefast and free the nymph, you get the cloak directly. If you talk Ragefast into letting her go without violence, you get the hair.

    Maybe it's tied to reaction and reputation. Didnt get the opportunity to talk Ragefast into letting the nymph go. He just raged and my party was forced to defend themselves acquiring the cloak as a gift from the nymph shortly after.

    My PC Ranger's charisma was 10 so I tried it with Imoen as the party leader with her 16 cha. Same result.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,299
    I think the EEs changed it so that only charname's cha is checked when talking to people.

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 377
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I think the EEs changed it so that only charname's cha is checked when talking to people.

    That's strange. Stores still give discounts when the party leader is changed though.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 475
    No. Reaction is definitely based on whoever does the talking, usually the first character in line. For an easy way to test this: start a low-Cha character. Head out and recruit Imoen, then talk to Xzar and Montaron. If your protagonist does the talking, they'll cut you off and not join. If Imoen does the talking, they're willing to join.

    In the case of the Ragefast encounter, at least with high reaction, the key to the conversation is whether you mention Ramazith. Leave him out of it, and Ragefast is willing to listen. Mention him, and, well, Ragefast rages.

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 377
    edited March 22
    jmerry wrote: »
    No. Reaction is definitely based on whoever does the talking, usually the first character in line. For an easy way to test this: start a low-Cha character. Head out and recruit Imoen, then talk to Xzar and Montaron. If your protagonist does the talking, they'll cut you off and not join. If Imoen does the talking, they're willing to join.

    In the case of the Ragefast encounter, at least with high reaction, the key to the conversation is whether you mention Ramazith. Leave him out of it, and Ragefast is willing to listen. Mention him, and, well, Ragefast rages.

    Just tested it the quest is wonky. The face charcter has nothing to do with the interaction. The 1st character that walks through the door or is closest to Ragefast is the one's whose reaction and charisma is used.

    Example 1: [Entered as party and Ragefast engages 1st (2nd slot) NPC in party [ 9 Charisma Character]

    43zmymedt4oa.png



    Example 2: [PC alone engages Ragefast] (11 Charisma Character)

    e6cia6ytw0zf.png

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,192
    So you're saying it's based on which character is actually speaking to Ragefast, not just who's in the top slot of the party?

    That's how it should work, isn't it?

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 377
    edited March 22
    Chronicler wrote: »
    So you're saying it's based on which character is actually speaking to Ragefast, not just who's in the top slot of the party?

    That's how it should work, isn't it?

    I guess so. Thought the character at the top represented the party at all times in conversation as with stores. Guess that's not the case. Find it strange though that forced interaction doesn't target the leader.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,192
    If I recall the shop prices work that way for some reason. Doesn't matter who does the talking. Only matters who's in the top slot.

    So it's inconsistently implemented in that respect which makes it needlessly confusing, but I agree more with the approach of checking the charisma of the person who's doing the talking right now.

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 377
    Chronicler wrote: »
    If I recall the shop prices work that way for some reason. Doesn't matter who does the talking. Only matters who's in the top slot.

    So it's inconsistently implemented in that respect which makes it needlessly confusing, but I agree more with the approach of checking the charisma of the person who's doing the talking right now.

    I like the latter approach as well just a bit ambivalent in the cases of forced scripted dialogues though. Especially when your party walks through a door and you have limited influence as to who will emerge where near the force scripted creature.

    Maybe outside the gate the 1st character approached is the one's whose reaction & charisma get's used but in city limits the face character's get's used for consistency. Either that or use purely top char stats or individual stats.

  • xizorxizor Member Posts: 89
    Noloir wrote: »
    jmerry wrote: »
    No. Reaction is definitely based on whoever does the talking, usually the first character in line. For an easy way to test this: start a low-Cha character. Head out and recruit Imoen, then talk to Xzar and Montaron. If your protagonist does the talking, they'll cut you off and not join. If Imoen does the talking, they're willing to join.

    In the case of the Ragefast encounter, at least with high reaction, the key to the conversation is whether you mention Ramazith. Leave him out of it, and Ragefast is willing to listen. Mention him, and, well, Ragefast rages.

    Just tested it the quest is wonky. The face charcter has nothing to do with the interaction. The 1st character that walks through the door or is closest to Ragefast is the one's whose reaction and charisma is used.

    Example 1: [Entered as party and Ragefast engages 1st (2nd slot) NPC in party [ 9 Charisma Character]

    43zmymedt4oa.png



    Example 2: [PC alone engages Ragefast] (11 Charisma Character)

    e6cia6ytw0zf.png

    Actually there is no charisma check in this conversation. There is a reaction check near the beginning (you passed in both examples) and a wisdom check (7) at the end. Unfortunately 7 is too much for poor Minsc.

    Chronicler
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 892
    xizor wrote: »
    Unfortunately 7 is too much for poor Minsc.

    He should have let Boo do the talking. ;) But yeah, back on the original topic, that custom Nymph Cloak is SO good for building up a nigh-unstoppable army in a map and just using it to wipe the opposition. Puts any Animate Dead-casting Necromancer to tears, it does. (This kind of tactic is why D&D games always hold a special place in my heart.)

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,299
    I could have sworn that charname's cha being the only counted was added in a patch at some point. I even remember people talking about it on the forums way back.

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