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Drizzt stats ridiculus

I never bothered to kill Drizzt in any games, and dont waste of time with him. But now i checked his stats in bg wiki and lol.
5 points in dual wielding? Why ? 30% physical resistance ? From where ?
4,5 apr without grandmastery ? Why not use proper stats or use rangers grandmastery.
Really dont know why they created Drizzt out of rules, or any character out of rules.

OlvynChuruRik_Kirtaniya

Comments

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,536
    Not to mention 98% magic resistance rather than 50% like Viconia. And his ridiculous AC.

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,670
    edited June 13
    Bah, that's nothing. You should see Shandalar. Now, that is someone who is truly ridiculous.

    Also, Drizzt has only 3 points in dual wielding (checked from EEKeeper). He is level 16, so he has ½ bonus APR from level 7 and 13 and another ½ bonus APR from specialisation in scimitars. So APR = 1 (base) + ½ (level 7) + ½ (level 13) + ½ (specialisation) + 1 (dual wielding) = 3.5 APR. I am pretty sure he is under a permanent haste effect (can someone confirm?), which should explain why it's 4.5 APR.

    Anyways, I think we should kill him simply for being a creature who gives you 12,000 XP. ;)

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,273
    Well, if it were pnp and a group of 4th level players decided to attack drizzt any DM would do his best to show how epic he truly is.

    sarevok57ThacoBellÆmrys
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 814
    Well known who he is, and how powerful swordfighter. But the ranger class was a big mistake. He should have grandmaster swordfighter, mainly from his fighter background. A fighter or fighter kit more fit his abilities at all. But in adnd 2 there is no really difference between a lvl 16 fighter to another other than ability scores and weapon profs. I think Sarevok should toe toe with him and have chance to win.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,182
    edited June 14
    Bah, that's nothing. You should see Shandalar. Now, that is someone who is truly ridiculous.

    Also, Drizzt has only 3 points in dual wielding (checked from EEKeeper). He is level 16, so he has ½ bonus APR from level 7 and 13 and another ½ bonus APR from specialisation in scimitars. So APR = 1 (base) + ½ (level 7) + ½ (level 13) + ½ (specialisation) + 1 (dual wielding) = 3.5 APR. I am pretty sure he is under a permanent haste effect (can someone confirm?), which should explain why it's 4.5 APR.

    Anyways, I think we should kill him simply for being a creature who gives you 12,000 XP. ;)

    indeed he does have perma haste from the boots that he wears, but his class is actually INNOCENT and not ranger ( although he is depicted as being a ranger, perhaps lore wise from the books? )

    so because of that, he gets no attack per round bonuses from level or proficiency bonus, hence the reason why his APR is manually set to 4.5
    Danacm wrote: »
    Well known who he is, and how powerful swordfighter. But the ranger class was a big mistake. He should have grandmaster swordfighter, mainly from his fighter background. A fighter or fighter kit more fit his abilities at all. But in adnd 2 there is no really difference between a lvl 16 fighter to another other than ability scores and weapon profs. I think Sarevok should toe toe with him and have chance to win.

    i've had drizzt and sarevok go toe to toe lots and sarevok usually wins, although drizzt attacks fast and easily he doesn't hit that hard, while sarevok hits like a freight train locomotive and can hit Drizzt pretty easily

    Grond0
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,014
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Fun Fact: (unless this changed recently) Drizzt is considered the best sworsdman in the setting, even though he is one of the lowest leveled big names. He even beats out higher leveled legendary fighter characters lore-wise.

    Come to think of it... There are actually very few epic-level warriors that are household names. In the FR, most of the mightiest movers and shakers, both good and evil, tend to be spellcasters. I'm finding myself hard pressed to think of a FR warrior-type on the same level of power as Elminster, the Simbul, Szass Tam etc.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,782
    Zaxares wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Fun Fact: (unless this changed recently) Drizzt is considered the best sworsdman in the setting, even though he is one of the lowest leveled big names. He even beats out higher leveled legendary fighter characters lore-wise.

    Come to think of it... There are actually very few epic-level warriors that are household names. In the FR, most of the mightiest movers and shakers, both good and evil, tend to be spellcasters. I'm finding myself hard pressed to think of a FR warrior-type on the same level of power as Elminster, the Simbul, Szass Tam etc.

    There are a few. There's an epic monk, for instance, and a group that comprises a couple fighters or a fighter and a Paladin. They were named and framed as a huge deal in one of Salvatore's books (Drizzt's nemesis, Artemis was worfed pretty badly from one of them, as I recall.) IIRC, there's also a barbarian hero that written by an author before Salvatore was hired to write for D&D. Unfortunately, it seems that Drizzt has eclipsed most/all non spellcaster heroes.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,182
    perhaps the greatest warrior type in faerun is shuruppak?

    im looking in my 3.5 handbook here and elminster is CR 36, while shuruppak is CR 30, and he possesses 20 fighter levels, although he still has 7 wizard levels

    looks like lore wise, most epic or high level characters are usually spell casters, perhaps to show that they are truly the strongest of characters?

  • masteralephmasteraleph Member Posts: 86
    Linear fighter, quadratic wizard. If your wizard isn’t powerful enough, come up with a new spell and they’ll be more powerful.

    sarevok57ChroniclerThacoBell
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,205
    Linear fighter, quadratic wizard. If your wizard isn’t powerful enough, come up with a new spell and they’ll be more powerful.

    Which makes for much more fun gameplay with the wizards. As they level up they get a progressively broader array of things they can do, where the fighter just gets progressively better at doing what he already does.

    But from a narrative perspective you'll notice a lot of the plotlines for these High Falutin Wizards center around some new plot device that has limited what they can do with their magic for a while. Some Spellplague or Time of Troubles or Magic Dead Zone. Some need to hide your magic or some terrible price you'll pay if you use your magic. Because the ability to wave your hands and perform nearly any function imaginable really takes the oomph out of the conflict.

    No problem that can't be solved by an archmage with just the barest modicum of creative thinking, where it's pretty easy to come up with problems a swordsman can't just cut his way through.

  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 500
    I always found it weird that Drizzt is written as one of the greatest living fighters but his strength stat isn’t even good enough to give him a bonus from it

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,233
    ilduderino wrote: »
    I always found it weird that Drizzt is written as one of the greatest living fighters but his strength stat isn’t even good enough to give him a bonus from it

    That's the way the character was originally written - his fighting abilities are the result of incredible dexterity & skill and intelligent application of those attributes. He doesn't need to hit very hard because he can hit opponents so quickly, while blocking their attacks. I think it was actually rather refreshing 30 years ago to have a top-level fighter created who didn't put brawn first ...

    ThacoBellAerakarDJKajuru
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,782
    @sarevok57 Even with the huge level difference, as of 3.5 at least, Drizzt is/was considered the most skilled swordsman in Faerun acccording to WotC (I think they held the license at this point). Its pretty crazy how Drizzt was so popular that he transcends numbers in an rpg series.
    Grond0 wrote: »
    ilduderino wrote: »
    I always found it weird that Drizzt is written as one of the greatest living fighters but his strength stat isn’t even good enough to give him a bonus from it

    That's the way the character was originally written - his fighting abilities are the result of incredible dexterity & skill and intelligent application of those attributes. He doesn't need to hit very hard because he can hit opponents so quickly, while blocking their attacks. I think it was actually rather refreshing 30 years ago to have a top-level fighter created who didn't put brawn first ...

    Completely agree. Everything was Conan if you wanted a fighting hero (or its all I seemed to find. Confimation bias can be sneaky). I also appreciated how thoughtful he could be too. It was pretty common for a chapter or section of a book to start with Drizzt musing about life. It wasn't deep or complicated, but it was nice to have a thoughtful fighter.

    Grond0sarevok57
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 500
    Grond0 wrote: »
    That's the way the character was originally written - his fighting abilities are the result of incredible dexterity & skill and intelligent application of those attributes. He doesn't need to hit very hard because he can hit opponents so quickly, while blocking their attacks. I think it was actually rather refreshing 30 years ago to have a top-level fighter created who didn't put brawn first ...

    I agree with the concept but those stats don’t translate into the game that way ... when I first played eye of the beholder I didn’t understand the stats and made a dexterity based ranger who struggled to hit stuff - he was never going to be the realms best fighter ...

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,233
    edited June 16
    ilduderino wrote: »
    Grond0 wrote: »
    That's the way the character was originally written - his fighting abilities are the result of incredible dexterity & skill and intelligent application of those attributes. He doesn't need to hit very hard because he can hit opponents so quickly, while blocking their attacks. I think it was actually rather refreshing 30 years ago to have a top-level fighter created who didn't put brawn first ...

    I agree with the concept but those stats don’t translate into the game that way ... when I first played eye of the beholder I didn’t understand the stats and made a dexterity based ranger who struggled to hit stuff - he was never going to be the realms best fighter ...

    My reference was to hitting the opponents while blocking their attacks. Drizzt's skill was particularly in the latter - where dexterity is of great value. It's because his abilities at doing that are so much greater than a standard fighter, that the BG developers gave him an unusually low AC as well as physical resistances (to recognize that even some attacks that would have scored on any normal enemy would be blocked by Drizzt).

    ThacoBell
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 814
    edited June 16
    I always thought strange that the dnd rpg system not coherent with dnd books. There is no thing like blocking, or yes there is, the AC represents it. There shouldn't be add drizzt physical resist nor extra AC from nowhere, or just give him 21 or 24 dex.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,233
    Danacm wrote: »
    I always thought strange that the dnd rpg system not coherent with dnd books. There is no thing like blocking, or yes there is, the AC represents it. There shouldn't be add drizzt physical resist nor extra AC from nowhere, or just give him 21 or 24 dex.

    Although parrying was only introduced as a separate concept in 3rd edition D&D, I don't myself see a problem with recognizing the value of that in a 2nd edition character. Nor do I think there's any reason to limit the abilities of unique individuals to the base characteristics of their race. For instance, while I've certainly seen plenty of people bemoan their deaths at the claws of TorGal, I don't think they typically complain that it's unfair he has abilities beyond those of a normal troll - the idea of a 'boss' encounter is a well-established part of gaming, whether computer or otherwise.

    sarevok57ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,782
    And remember, he EEs NERFED Drizzt.

    sarevok57
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,014
    edited June 18
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Completely agree. Everything was Conan if you wanted a fighting hero (or its all I seemed to find. Confimation bias can be sneaky). I also appreciated how thoughtful he could be too. It was pretty common for a chapter or section of a book to start with Drizzt musing about life. It wasn't deep or complicated, but it was nice to have a thoughtful fighter.

    Interestingly, based on his comic/novel interpretation, Conan himself is actually a very smart, cunning fighter as well. He does go into "berserker rages" from time to time, but in most fights he actually doesn't use it and relies on strategy and observation to take note of his enemy's weaknesses and exploit opportunities. There's one fight in particular I remember which comes from a novelization written by Robert Jordan (yup, he of the Wheel of Time fame!) where Conan is up against a Khitan assassin. The assassin's clearly expecting Conan to charge in with blade high, but what Conan does instead is flick his sword from one hand to the other, then as the assassin's eyes follow the movement, Conan reaches out with his now free hand, grabs a nearby tapestry and throws it into the assassin's face. Surprised and blinded, the assassin now can't see Conan make a single, lethal thrust through the chest. Fight ended in one attack. XD

    There's lots of other examples too where Conan uses the environment to secure victory, like toppling walls/pillars on top of enemies, or trapping a swarm/ooze in a tight area and then using fire against it etc. He's very much not a straight hack and slash fighter.

    Grond0ThacoBell
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 814
    Zaxares wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Completely agree. Everything was Conan if you wanted a fighting hero (or its all I seemed to find. Confimation bias can be sneaky). I also appreciated how thoughtful he could be too. It was pretty common for a chapter or section of a book to start with Drizzt musing about life. It wasn't deep or complicated, but it was nice to have a thoughtful fighter.

    Interestingly, based on his comic/novel interpretation, Conan himself is actually a very smart, cunning fighter as well. He does go into "berserker rages" from time to time, but in most fights he actually doesn't use it and relies on strategy and observation to take note of his enemy's weaknesses and exploit opportunities. There's one fight in particular I remember which comes from a novelization written by Robert Jordan (yup, he of the Wheel of Time fame!) where Conan is up against a Khitan assassin. The assassin's clearly expecting Conan to charge in with blade high, but what Conan does instead is flick his sword from one hand to the other, then as the assassin's eyes follow the movement, Conan reaches out with his now free hand, grabs a nearby tapestry and throws it into the assassin's face. Surprised and blinded, the assassin now can't see Conan make a single, lethal thrust through the chest. Fight ended in one attack. XD

    There's lots of other examples too where Conan uses the environment to secure victory, like toppling walls/pillars on top of enemies, or trapping a swarm/ooze in a tight area and then using fire against it etc. He's very much not a straight hack and slash fighter.

    In gaming: Conan roll 20-3=17 hit. :smile:
    Assassin doesnt have helmet to avoid critical hit on his chest :smiley:

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,782
    @Zaxares Oh, that's actually really interesting. I'm used to the old movie adaptations.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,205
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Zaxares Oh, that's actually really interesting. I'm used to the old movie adaptations.

    Yeah, Conan's one of those heroes that's been around a long time, and has taken many forms over the years. He's all things to all people. But from what I understand his earliest stories by Robert E. Howard had him as a pretty wily figure.

    I don't think there's been any point in his history where overwhelming strength wasn't at least a tool he had in his toolbelt though, so I think it's still fair to differentiate his archetype form people like Drizzt, who just get by on their skill with the blade alone.

    Drizzt also notably isn't really a solo hero in his own stories. He has a whole crew he rolls with. He has Wulfgar for brute strength. That's also a major part of what differentiates him from a figure like Conan, who is usually a solo hero, and ultimately becomes the whole package. Any strength, virtue, or characteristic that the story requires, must be held but Conan personally, which is why his character becomes much more broad in scope than somebody like Drizzt.

    Grond0ThacoBell
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