Is it possible to dual class two kits?

2088432

I'm assuming not but I want to try a kensai/bounty hunter after this character.

ThacoBell

Nope. Only the first class can be a kit.

jsaving

Kits are typically OP (which is why so many players would like to do it!) but the engine doesn't support that. However, depending on the kit you may be able to EEKeeper something that is "pretty close" to a two-kit character.

2088432

jsaving wrote: »

Kits are typically OP (which is why so many players would like to do it!) but the engine doesn't support that. However, depending on the kit you may be able to EEKeeper something that is "pretty close" to a two-kit character.

Where do I find EEKeeper?

jmerry

Although it isn't allowed by the standard game, dual-classing into a kit is generally supported by the engine. You just have to watch out for a few features like the reduced backstabs of the shadowdancer and swashbuckler or the swashbuckler's ability to specialize in weapons.

A kensai-thief dual works just fine, no tweaking necessary.
A fighter-bounty hunter dual works with just a small edit; set the character's kit to BH in EEKeeper before you dual in-game.
A kensai-bounty hunter ... now you're flat out cheating. You could simulate it by giving a fighter-bounty hunter the abilities of a kensai of its fighter level and not using the items that should be disallowed.

2088432

jmerry wrote: »

Although it isn't allowed by the standard game, dual-classing into a kit is generally supported by the engine. You just have to watch out for a few features like the reduced backstabs of the shadowdancer and swashbuckler or the swashbuckler's ability to specialize in weapons.

A kensai-thief dual works just fine, no tweaking necessary.
A fighter-bounty hunter dual works with just a small edit; set the character's kit to BH in EEKeeper before you dual in-game.
A kensai-bounty hunter ... now you're flat out cheating. You could simulate it by giving a fighter-bounty hunter the abilities of a kensai of its fighter level and not using the items that should be disallowed.

It is mainly the bounty hunter's traps (that get rediculous at high levels) that I am interested in but lol yea it kinda is cheating

ilduderino

Would be cool to be able to have one part of the dual a kit, so it you dual from a vanilla fighter for instance you could be a swashbuckler. It would probably be hard to implement ingame but I sometimes do this with EEKeeper

Balrog99

I find that I don't care much for the higher level maze or Otiluke's Resilient Sphere traps of the Bounty Hunter myself so I dual it at level 14 or 15 (whatever the cut-off is for the super-special traps). Dualing to either fighter or mage is my preference. I guess the only tempting kits to dual into at that point would be Berserker or Conjurer. Conjurer would work with minimal tinkering with EEKeeper, but I think Berserker might be a chore...

WarChiefZeke

Kensai/Swashbuckler. An absolutely broken machine of death and destruction. I like it.

jmerry

Absolutely broken, yes. 5x backstabs with +11 damage from the kits... Add on +5 from grandmastery, +2 from gauntlets, apply to an endgame weapon with 1d8+5 damage; 120-155+strength damage per stab. Or we could go with the ultimate physical damage weapon (Staff of the Ram +6) and deal 160-185+strength+1d4 damage per stab. Consistent one-hit kills on fire giants.

But wait - you say that swashbucklers aren't supposed to be able to backstab? They aren't. But the dual is bugged. Absolutely broken.

On dual-classing away from Bounty Hunter ... that isn't going to preserve your damage traps. The trap's effects are based on your innate caster level, which is the average of your class levels. It continues to progress as you grow in your new class. As soon as you exceed average level 15, your special snares don't do damage anymore. Might as well keep going as a Bounty Hunter and get more daily uses, at least.

A dual into Berserker... works just fine, aside from losing the drawback. Refrain from specializing in ranged weapons, and you won't notice a problem.
A dual into Conjurer, or other specialist mage ... you don't get the main benefit of the kit. No extra spell slots. You'd have to make your own effect to grant those slots.

Khyron

As its been pointed out, dual classing with kits is entirely possible if you use the eekeeper.

It's possible with multiclasses as well, but only one kit at a time. To keep it working somewhat correctly, you would have to start for example an FMT and then use keeper to set kit to Berserker, then set fighter lvl to 0, then swap to Swashbuckler or whatever.. and you'd have to keep doing this before clicking lvl up (not reset to lvl0, only first time each class) that's just for the innate starting bonuses of the kits and get correct lvl counts for "every 5 lvls bla bla")

I wouldn't advice it, as your char would be such an abomination.. but certainly possible.

Kensai/swashbuckler/illusionist anyone?

2088432

So there isn't even a possible mod that allows two kits simultaneously?

ThacoBell

Nope, BG is hard coded as all get out. It used to be WORSE too. Beamdog actually opened up a lot of functions to modding with the EEs.

jsaving

The actual tabletop game on which BG is based allowed you to do a couple of things you can't do in the CRPG. (Well, more than a couple, but two that are relevant here.) One is to take as many kits as you wanted (though in those days most kits/subclasses/archetypes weren't part of the core rulebooks). The other is to dual-class as many times as you wanted, for example taking five levels of ranger then six levels of cleric then eight levels of thief then ten levels of mage.

Maurvir

In fairness to CRPGs, though, to actually do that would require an absurdly long time - vastly longer than most computer games would provide for new content. Unless you just really, really like killing xvarts.

2088432

It would still be nice imo.

Reticent

The flip side of the situation was also that the odds of rolling a character in the tabletop game that had the stats to qualify for repeated dual classing were pretty remote.

In the computer game you can almost assign your stats to be whatever you want, but at the table top you were at least to some extent beholden to the whim of the dice.

masteraleph

Also, in tabletop, you weren't supposed to preplan your character to such an extent- Paladin and Ranger were both things that a Fighter could qualify IF you rolled the requisite stats (and given the stats necessary for a Paladin, you would've needed thousands of rolls to actually achieve that).

jsaving

Well, when you don't have feats or skill points or 3e-style multiclassing, there isn't all that much of a need to pre-plan your character. One exception was the 1e bard who had to dual from fighter to thief to druid before he'd be allowed to enter the bard class, which did take a fair amount of planning.

Reticent

Yeah, some of those 1e class entry restrictions were almost non-workable.

Roll 3d6 for each attribute, don't move any of the numbers around, and good luck qualifying for anything beyond human fighter, cleric, mage, or thief.

Danacm

With advanced specialization rules the paladin is actually weaker than fighter. Nor of the bonuses compensate the loose of grandmastery and faster level progression. ( Strictly vanilla paladins not kits)

Balrog99

Reticent wrote: »

Yeah, some of those 1e class entry restrictions were almost non-workable.

Roll 3d6 for each attribute, don't move any of the numbers around, and good luck qualifying for anything beyond human fighter, cleric, mage, or thief.

They even included psionics tables for those 1 in 100,000 'gifted' individuals. Why do I think the DM's were encouraged to 'pad' the dice rolls a bit? ?