Lore reason why would Gorion's ward would take x to his party
Hadar
Member Posts: 171
Baldur's Gate I has a lot possible companions, but there are not usually really fleshed out. Somewhere someone's asked for a story telling reason why would Gorion's ward take some like Eldoth to his party, and some answers were neat. I would like to extend this question and asked you all for a lore reason why Gorion's ward would want following people in his party. And why would this companion want to travel alongside Gorion's ward, Imoen, Khalid and Jaheira (let assume that they all are the core of this party and the people whom Gorion's ward trusts the most).
Imoen, Jaheira and Khalid are quite obvious. But why would Gorion's ward trust anybody else after so many murder attempts on him (If I recall correctly at least 4 of them before talking to Khalid and Jaheira)
- Ajantis Ilvastarr
- Alora
- Baeloth Barrityl
- Branwen
- Coran
- Dorn Il-Khan
- Dynaheir
- Edwin Odesseiron
- Eldoth Kron
- Faldorn
- Garrick
- Imoen
- Jaheira
- Kagain
- Khalid
- Kivan
- Minsc
- Montaron
- Neera
- Quayle
- Rasaad yn Bashir
- Safana
- Shar-Teel Dosan
- Skie Silvershield
- Tiax
- Viconia DeVir
- Xan
- Xzar
- Yeslick Orothiar
Imoen, Jaheira and Khalid are quite obvious. But why would Gorion's ward trust anybody else after so many murder attempts on him (If I recall correctly at least 4 of them before talking to Khalid and Jaheira)
0
Comments
For a number of these the enemy of my enemy is my friend - Yeslick, Xan, Faldorn, more loosely Branwen, Ajantis and Dynaheir (I think it only becomes clear later that your goals are aligned), and they may have no better options. I feel bad leaving Yeslick in the mines.
For others they join for a task that may benefit or interest the pc and then stay - Coran, Eldoth, Minsc, Edwin, Dorn, Xzar, Montarion and Kivan (he also fits nicely in the enemy of my enemy group). For Minsc and Dynaheir this works really well - you are sent off on a rescue mission and they then want to repay the debt, need the protection of a group and Dynaheir can pursue her mission, and you can use the help, everyone wins. From an RP perspective, it feels less plausible to let Coran join as your party is likely well set in stone by then on a first playthrough and his reasons to join are less convincing than a number of others.
Some join because they need help (Viconia and Neera), lose a bet (Shar-Teel) or need a new start (Kagain) which are all pretty plausible. The weaker ones are probably the “I’m bored, can I join you” / “you look bored, will you join me” npcs being Garrick, Rasaad and those in Baldur’s Gate, but it’s a dangerous world, there is strength in numbers and poverty may be beckoning.
From an RP perspective you could cast a know alignment or detect evil spell on them before allowing joining.
Your character may also get a gut feel. For Ajantis, it would probably need a superb dissembler to pull off all the “by Helm” stuff plausibly. And he could have a good aura as a paladin?
The game never explores betrayal or attempts to buy your team over apart from Yoshimo in the next edition and Sarevok (I think that’s just in the Ascension mod). It would be cool if they’d explored that with the evil npcs a bit (Edwin shows in the next edition that he will sell someone out for a better offer), or had a good npc being conflicted by being offered something they really need / want by the opposition, but I get why that wasn’t implemented due to the annoyance of building a party and then being left high and dry. It may also make evil even harder to pull off if your team could knife you in the back (in a plausible RP manner) for the rewards.
In the second Eye of the Beholder, one npc will leave when you rest and steal some of your stuff, annoying at the time but a nice bit of RP. His class is a big clue and you have little reason to trust him, it just subverts your expectations of how the game should work.
On the other hand, Eldoth actually has one of the best reasons for any greedy or unscrupulous Charname - he promises a profitable scheme, after all. Coran may be appealing simply by virtue of his charms to a female Charname, as does Safana to a male one. Garrick might not be particularly useful in combat, but having your very own bard to sing your exploits is certainly pleasing to your vanity.
Yeah, after charname mocks Dynaheir's kidnapping.
In some ways this makes the dilemma worse as it sometimes feels like the characters with flimsy reasons to join are more powerful and / or interesting than those that are foisted on you.
There's the protagonist, with either a twohanded or a bastard/longsword on his back and a dagger at his waist.
The first npc coming to mind is Minsc, how could the protagonist not trust him of all people.. a slightly touched in the head, goodnatured man and experienced warrior who likes swords besides.
The second is the Paladin Ajantis ofcourse. There is no reason not to trust a Paladin, the Paladin, at the point of meeting him after Nashkel, will probably be intrigued by the scope of corruption already exposed and see it as a worthy cause to lend his aid to.
Then there's the fumbling fool with the moonblade, what a mind**** but he appears to at least not be out to get you, tho his cowardice excludes him from being called trustworthy.
By the way, when you get the Paladin, lorewise, I'd think you wouldn't have to worry as much anymore.. since he can sense evil at will. You even have the story in Bereghost with the kid that stole something if i recall correctly, and a Paladin there kept eying him, sensing something was off. You cant go wrong with a Pala, thats why im currently playing an Undead Hunter in bg2 SoA tho.
gorion told you to see Khalid and Jaheira.
ajantis is a paladin so he is trust worthy.
you are helping out Coran, Minsc, KIvan, Garric, Kagain, and Safana.
you save: Branwen, Yeslick, Xan, Viconia, Neera, and Dynaheir
It's kind of a stretch to pick up Safana or Ajantis that early and still role-play in my mind. Both are too far out of the way to justify the trip. I suppose you can play that you wanted to see for yourself that Baldur's Gate was closed off and that way would bump into Ajantis, but it's much more likely that somebody at the Friendly Arms would have told you about the gates being closed already.
Technically, if you really wander a lot, you can pick up Viconia earlier in the game, but at substantial risk for a low level party.
As an aside, I never understood why the first four areas of the Cloakwood weren't already open. Lock out the mines, sure, but the rest of the forest is just, well, a forest. I have my game modded to allow access to the first four areas from the start of the game.
Having your own bard or minstrels may not be quite as pleasing to your vanity as one would imagine...
"Brave, brave Sir Garrick, Sir Garrick led the way.
Brave, brave Sir Garrick, Sir Garrick ran away!"
(Morale failure quote. Sung, of course.)
I think you meant Coran there, not Kivan.
If I recall correctly Abdel (lets call this ways the Gorion's ward for simplicity sake) has no reason to go Nashkel before talking with Khalid and Jaheira. So I find quite odd for Abdel to promise to go to Nashkel while his only goal is to find Khalid and Jaheira talk with them about all this mess. So unless Xzar and Montaron got lost on theirs way to Nashkel I don' see reason while they would go to Friendly Arm Inn if Abdel (for now) has now other intention than going to Friendly Arm Inn
As for taking Ajantis (and Viconia) early on the only reason I can think is that Bentley Mirrorshade told you that Ajantis Ilvastarr is wandering around and he may want to investigate the same things as you. While Viconia would be random encounter and you take her along the way. But the problem is that if you take Ajantis you cannot take Dorn, but with Dorn in the party you still can take Ajantis.
If I would be screenwriter of Baldur's Gate TV series I would want to that for at least some time Abdel would travel with everyone from available NPCs. So I always imagine that Duke Eltan puts Adbel in situation that he can only give him pass to Candlekeep for maximum dozen of people with good reputation (so no Drows, Half-Orcs, Cirics priests, Red mages, Shadow Druids etc.)
Yup, you are right. Kivan is at High Hedge, which makes him pretty easy to get.
He wants to meet with Jaheira and Khalid, maybe get some answers or protection. Thinking that they'd follow you to Nashkell isn't really a stretch, since they are friends of Gorion's. As for charname having "no intention" of going to Nashkel, this isn't really true, since charname can agree to accompany Xzar to Nashkel after a quick stop at the FAI. I don't see the issue here.
Given that an assassin managed to infiltrate the impenetrable Candlekeep, and then more showed up on the very night they leave and kill a (supposedly) powerful mage, I think it's not too much of a stretch for a paranoid PC to think that whoever wants them dead already knows their next steps. In that case, I think you can justify the PC doing just about anything at the start of the game - heading for the wilderness so the assassins can't find them (Kivan, Safana, Shar-Teel, etc.), trying to go to BG to be a small fish in a big pond (Ajantis, Viconia, etc.) or just about anything.
The biggest issue taking Kivan when you meet him is he has a timer to find the bandits, so if you take him he'll abandon you
2. Montaron - See 3 below.
3. Xzar - We had the option to work with them, but negotiation was unsuccessful. They were heading towards Nashkel (off the road mind you) an we were heading to the Friendly Arm Inn. We said we had to meet somebody first and Xzar said, Silly! That is not our concern.
4. Dorn - We avoided. From an RP perspective, if we are in a bar and we want to avoid a bar brawl, he looks like a good person to avoid.
5. Jaheira - See 6 below.
6. Khalid - We joined with them, because Gorion told us to meet with them.
7. Garrick - Joined with us because we killed his employer and he was out of a job. We decided not to say no.
8. Kivan - does not want to work with us.
9. Kagain - We avoided and did not enter his shop. He appears RP Neutral to us. From a Gameplay perspective, there is no reason to not want to work with him, but the reputation system does not work well enough to balance good choices and keep the reputation at a tolerable level.
10. Neera - We avoided her for now. When the time comes, we will take her because she wants to travel with us. We know she's trouble, but we can't say no. This will mean we will have to exchange a party member.
11. Minsc and Boo - do not want to work with us.
12. Branwen - will travel with us to replay a debt. We see no reason to decline extra help.
13. Edwin - We did not negotiate successfully for him. Stomp your foot once for YES, twice for NO.
14. Xan - does not want to work with us.
15. Rasaad - lectured us after we killed Jack B Nimbul.
I think we got them all so far in our adventure. We will be making a couple of changes. From a gameplay perspective, we have to reconfigure a little bit, because we will transition into SoD. This will also affect RP, because SoD will imply that we interacted with these characters and maybe even worked with them. I made a list similar to yours and will figure out how many configurations we can make and how many will serve our purpose.
My current party is Main Berserker Nutjob, Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Garrick, and Branwen. (Yes, unbelievably we kept Garrick up to Level 4 and counting.) Our next encounters in the route we foresee are with Ajantis and Coran, possibly Baeloth depending on the route we choose.
If I counted correctly up to this point, then I have decisions to make about 14 more characters.
Added: As a side note, I might add to my RP Challenge that characters will come talk to me. As an example, entering Nashkel, Rasaad was there in front of the Nashkel Inn, but only came to talk to us after killing Jack B Nimbul. That means we should have talked to Dorn, but we RP also avoided him. So when we arrive at the Ankheg Farm, we will probably encounter Ajantis and he will stop and talk to us. HALT! Be ye friend or foe?
Here is a list of characters I think we will encounter, in some arbitrary order that we might encounter them.
2. Viconia - We will most likely rescue her from the Flaming Fist, because, let's face it - She's hot. Then, with Charisma 3, we will remove our helmets to reveal who we are and - She will reject us.
3. Ajantis - Especially with a stellar reputation, he will offer to join us and present us with a decision. We can tell him we are full-up. We can take him and leave Garrick or Branwen. We can take him and part ways with Khalid and Jaheira. If we do this, then there is a lot of RP that makes no sense. Guess what - You get to help me make a RP decision!
4. Coran - He is hunting Wyverns. From a Gameplay perspective, he is the best Archer in the game and a backup Thief. For RP, we are heading in the same direction. If we switched K&J for Ajantis, then we have an empty slot and heading in the same direction.
5. Faldorn - I have to interact with her again to decide on a response. Also - If we are traveling the Cloakwood without K&J, the Druids will be more hostile.
6. Eldoth - The Dialogue says it all. Are you always this slimy, or is this one of your better days?
7. Skie - is automatically eliminated and put her here because of the decision with Eldoth.
8. Yeslick - will not want to work with us.
9. Dynaheir - might work with us when rescued. We are not sure. She can help us pickup Minsc. When this happens, we will become Team Dumm and Dummer.
10. Shart Teal - We can decline the duel with her.
11. Safana - will probably want us to check out that cave. I think she will work with Team Unlikeable. We will need basic thieving skills and also basic social skills for the main character.
12. Quayle - will greet us by the door to Baldur's Gate. We have not decided on a response.
13. Tiax - is crazy and everybody knows it.
14. Alora - We might find her, but won't if we are not breaking into the Hall of Wonders. I am told she is a lot of fun to work with, but is often available way too late in the game.
This I have noticed and this is what I am doing. Hopefully I do not lose important items. If I do, then at least on BG2EE Charisma will never be an issue. I have been using a face character for shopping. I don't think BG1EE has an 18 Charisma character, so I actually use Garrick with the Friends spell to do shopping. That increases our discount from 5 points to 25.
I can't do an evil playthrough. I don't know if the game does anything to accommodate the Morally Flexible (Reputation 18), and Neutral (Reputation 12). I don't think there is any benefit on having Reputation less than 8. Is there?
This. Otherwise it is gameplay and not roleplay. It is sandbox and it is up to us to make up the story why we traveled that direction. A lot of these characters you are very likely to encounter. The exceptions I can think of are:
1. Vicky - What brought you to those parts of the woods? Why are you attacking a FF Mercenary to defend her?
2. Baeloth - Only the first question above applies.
3. Safana - What Chapter are we picking her up? How does that part of the map fit in the story? Chapter 3? Why are you not going to Beregost? Chapter 5? Why are you not going to Baldur's Gate?
Also - Why is it important to pick up these characters early? I thought BGEE gave us a fix for that issue.
It's true that evil reputation really only matters in BG1, where you get different dream-related powers. And actually, even then, the good powers tend to be more useful. Though I think frontline figthers benefit best from the evil powers. This requires a bit of finessing. In BG2 it's probably best to just maintain a high-ish reputation, just so long as it's not 20. I tend to find the best way to "roleplay" on an evil playthrough is imagining your party trying to infiltrate society, as opposed to mass murder.
FWIW, it's easy to tank your reputation by simply recruiting an evil party. -2 reps for Viconia, Dorn, and the hidden Beamdog companion. They're all top choices in their respective classes. -2 Rep again in BG2 along with Hexxat too. The enhanced editions have done much to make an evil playthrough a little less tedious imo.
1. Xzar and Montaron - We declined their offer to travel to Nashkel, because we were heading to the FAI to meet people.
2. Khalid and Jaheira - We picked them up at the FAI.
3. On the way out of the FAI, we got distracted by Joia, who lost her ring to a gang of Hobgoblins north of the FAI.
4. After dealing with (or looking for) the Hobgoblins, we are hailed by Ajantis. He is investigating the Bandit Iron Crisis and therefore on the way to [you guessed it] Nashkel. This is a very obvious match and he joins.
On the gameplay level, it just means the Hobgoblins took all day. 4h north following the road, 4h back. If you look at the maps, they often fit together.
Getting Vicky on the RP level is trickier. This time we got unbelievably lost looking for the Hobgoblins.