Weird RP question (about breaking into houses)
Kneller
Member Posts: 438
So, I try to "RP" through my game as best as I can. I'm being more conscious of this my current run and seeing that my "good" party is technically doing some pretty crappy things. One thing in particular is that there are tons of "noble" quests that you can only get if you break into the homes of quest givers to talk to them. Everything from Joia at FAI, Joseph's ring in Nashkel and the twins in BG city. In many of these cases, there is a locked door on a private home you need to pass to talk to the people inside. And, in some cases, NPCs do treat you as criminals for walking in (as they should).
I can rationalize this for something like Firebead's book quest (hey, I know this guy from Candlekeep, let's stop in and say hi), but what "good" reason do I have to just invite myself into random strangers' locked private homes? In extremely rare cases (i.e. Marianne in Beregost), you get a tip to go seek this person out, but for the most part, you're just dungeon crawling suburbia.
On one hand, I can't think of a good reason and figure I should lose on on these quests since I'd have to do something "evil" to get the quest. But on the other hand, you lose out on a lot of side content with this approach. I know that this is one of the many, many, many conceptual holes in this game, and I could just handwave it, but I'd prefer to come up with a "good" reason for this.
Has anyone that RPs their runs come up with a way to explain this? The best thing that I could come up with was my party offering door-to-door adventuring services (and perhaps my generic cleric's deity is Jehovah
) , but a) that's just absurd, and b) it doesn't help with all the locked doors between quest givers.
I can rationalize this for something like Firebead's book quest (hey, I know this guy from Candlekeep, let's stop in and say hi), but what "good" reason do I have to just invite myself into random strangers' locked private homes? In extremely rare cases (i.e. Marianne in Beregost), you get a tip to go seek this person out, but for the most part, you're just dungeon crawling suburbia.
On one hand, I can't think of a good reason and figure I should lose on on these quests since I'd have to do something "evil" to get the quest. But on the other hand, you lose out on a lot of side content with this approach. I know that this is one of the many, many, many conceptual holes in this game, and I could just handwave it, but I'd prefer to come up with a "good" reason for this.
Has anyone that RPs their runs come up with a way to explain this? The best thing that I could come up with was my party offering door-to-door adventuring services (and perhaps my generic cleric's deity is Jehovah
) , but a) that's just absurd, and b) it doesn't help with all the locked doors between quest givers. 1
Comments
Fortunately, most of these quests are worth, at best, a few hundred XP and maybe some low-level loot - until you get to Baldur's Gate itself. So, if committing a B&E in order to get quests is a bridge too far for your RP, then I doubt you will have missed a tremendous amount.
I will say that I have started taking the RP aspect more seriously with my parties, so far less looting/pillaging of the villages. I mean, Imoen is still Imoen, and what she does after the rest of the party beds down for the night is on her...
Some people see BG/BG2 not as a role-playing game but as a puzzle where you are trying to get as much gold/items/XP as you can under the ruleset BioWare created. If that's the way you play the game, then you enter every house, pickpocket every person, and leverage every exploit as much as you possibly can in order to "win".
Whereas other people see BG/BG2 as a role-playing game where "winning" means behaving in-character even if you know from a metagame point of view that it will sometimes "cost" you power. If that's the way you play the game, then you "win" by NOT entering locked houses, pickpocketing, etc (unless of course you are chaotic and/or evil, in which case that kind of behavior might actually be in-character).
The challenge comes when you as a player are the type of person who min-maxes IRL but you conceptually think you "should" play BG/BG2 by role-playing, so you end up constantly tempted to weave stories about why it would be in-character for your LG character to pickpocket etc. If that's where you are, then your best option would be to honestly ask yourself whether you can embrace role-playing as "winning" or whether you'll constantly be bothered by the gold/items/XP you are "losing." The answer to that question will tell you whether a role-playing run is for you, or whether you should stick to getting as much loot as you can. Either way I hope you find the route that works for you, good luck!
Yeah, that's the thing. I stopped pillaging houses a long time ago. Even without that, I end up with WAY more swag than I need anyway. I'm currently running a full party, fully tooled up near the end of BG1, no farming, and with 150kgp in the bank.
However, I'm now starting to question if I should even be in these houses. I'm finding the whole thing to be incomplete/poor design. This could have been done much better if all the "good" quests could be found in public areas, and B&E was treated like any other robbery.
Is it too late to learn how to mod this game? lol
I realize its not 100% with game mechanics, but that's often what rp is.
Back when I was a kid and didn't care about RPing, I used to ransack everything and everywhere, even if I was playing as a paladin. Sometimes I'd even kill innocents if I knew they had good gear.
But nowadays I look to RP my playthroughs. If I'm RPing a good-aligned character, then I don't break into houses if the door is locked unless I have a specific reason to do so (like the quest to return Joseph's ring), and I certainly don't ransack the houses. Otherwise, I only enter the house if the door's open and will promptly leave if instructed to do so.
And YES, you do miss out on content if you do this. IMO, in order to properly RP the game, you have to accept that you're sacrificing volume of content in exchange for a more fulfilling gaming experience.
Having said that, you may want to consider playing as a TN character. That way, you can still be an overall good-leaning character but have some RP leeway to do "bad" things if you think they're in the best interest of your party.
Would she break into a rich persons house in order to liberate some valuables to help her friend pay for the equipment needed to put an end to the evil and dangerous iron throne? Yes.. yes she would. And she'd lie about it too, if main char was a paladin or similar, claiming the door was already open.
Because Imoen while good, will also lean towards a more chaotic mindset.
If you truly believe breaking into someones house can lead to something good, or done in an altruistic fashion, then it isn't evil in itself.. intent does matter, when law is not a deciding factor.
It's how my paladin playthroughs get that sort of stuff done.. How is my pally main char gonna know that Imoen is at large, stealing and lying about it?
Actually no. I don't think Imoen would do that AT ALL. Anything worth taking and selling would RUIN the life (lives) of whoever you took it from. Imoen is not a life ruiner. She is a prankster at worst.
This. You need Safana on your team for this level of amorality.
They'll never call the guards on you just for entering. You have to go through their stuff (open a watched chest) for them to call the guards.
Incidentally, if you spot a trap on a chest and disarm it? That chest is then safe to open without calling the guards. Guard calls are implemented as traps (that usually can't be disarmed), and a chest can only have one trap on it.
Sorry, but I think this is incorrect - guard calls happen if someone is within sight of you when you break open a chest.
Looking through dialog files, I found a couple cases of people in houses who call guards if you talk to them repeatedly - but you have to actively talk to them. They don't initiate conversation on their own. I've never had problems going into all the houses and unlocking everything. Actually looking in all those containers... well, that can get you in some trouble.
And then I quit, because my computer crashed from overheating. No comprehensive search today.
If trying to roleplay a "good" person, you can have endless discussions about what it means to be good. Trying to roleplay an "evil" person in BG is even worse, if you don't like being Stupid Evil. If I manipulate the whole world into liking me (20 rep) my evil henchmen with high int will complain about it and leave me? Even if I gained that rep by bribing a cleric? Really?
There is a frustrating lack of temptation to be evil. Most quests give you extra rewards / xp if you are kind and a little naive, while being a hearthless bastard will very rarely allow you to get something extra. Take the "Bodhi vs ST" choice. This could have been such an interesting, tempting offer with a real tradeoff. But noo, the "evil" path had to be the thing only a madman would do. How does Bodhi attempt to persuade you?
- These thieves are creepy and you can't trust them! (While clearly coming across as a creepy stalker herself, with a connection to your enemy Irenicus that she refuses to explain.)
- Hey, I offer you a tiny discount!
In case you almost cared about the tiny discount, the thieves match it anyway. And then the game makes certain that there really is no extra reward whatsover for the dark side. It will take longer before you get your amulet of power and you don't even get to rob Renald of his boots. Actually, if you want those you should side with the Shadow Thieves instead and kill him after you return.
/rant
Given how devoted she is to the protagonist it's likely she would.
As for evil chars.. all my non-ranger/paladin chars are Neutral Evil, because it's an excellent alignment to be.
Mostly just self-centered without too many scruples.. Not necessarily cruel or wicked, not necessarily someone who likes slavery and theft. Just an individual with an extreme sense of self-preservation and will break laws and morale to advance his own goals. Even in "good" playthroughs my char is N-E.. it's his tactic to surround himself with "good" people who will aid his cause for free and it's in his best interest to have a high reputation.
Its almost like one shouldn't be encouraged to be evil...
@Khyron "Actually, I am quite confident that it's well within Imoen's character to steal a few valuables from rich people.. they'd not notice much, but you could get lifesaving gear."
You didn't specify "rich" in your previous post
As the alignments say a NG Will always work for the "good", no matter which way, shape or form.. as long as it's good. Could even be a misguided sense of good.. and helping someone who's going to save the sword coast from war is certainly good.
A CG char acts on will and whim, and although good may not always be seen as a ultimately good person to have around, as they usually dont see the need for law or society at all, as long as they follow their own moral compass.. which is good.
So yeah, given the situation Imoen and the protagonist find themselves in, I am adamant it's within her character to "borrow" from rich people if she deems it necessary.. no doubt she would intend to give it back some day, and possibly with interest, but that's kind of besides the point.
She even broke into Gorions study/room and read his private letters.. thats not a very nice thing to do is it? But she did.
On second look, yeah, you did. My bad.
You're analysis of what a "good" person would do sounds so much like the villain of another series trying to understand the heroes. Imoen is not one to intentionally hurt other people, outside of them trying to hurt her or someone else first. She's a "thief", but she's not a thief.
"She even broke into Gorions study/room and read his private letters.. thats not a very nice thing to do is it? But she did."
And stole nothing. What's your pont?
I found a book in an rpg once. (Sorry, I don't remember which rpg.) The book was labeled "Treatise on Chaotic Neutral Alignment." When you clicked on it to read it, the text said "Face it, you're Neutral Evil." I almost died laughing, I agreed with the joke so much.
That's AMAZING.
I'd say it is.
Truth be known, I'd feel much better about someone stealing my char than breaking into my house and going through all my documents.
I mean, if you think stealing 100s-1000s of gold value in items from non-adventurers (note that 500gp is treated as a comfortably life-long sustaining sum in BG2 by castle staff), is comparable to sneakily reading your dad's letter about him leaving and taking your sibling? I dunno, seems pretty non-equivalent to me.
I almost agree. Except that it's not a joke, it's the plain truth
Its also worth noting that the rich Robin is, uh, robbing are openly corrupt and propping up an illegitimate king.
For instance, my current PC is a cleric/thief, but she is specializing in traps. (both setting them and clearing them) Eventually, she will put points in other areas, but for now, Imoen is taking care of pickpocketing and Aura is handling locks.
Of these three, only Imoen is, by definition, breaking the law - though the other two could be, depending on where and how they use their skills. Opening a locked door in a dungeon? Lawful. Opening a locked chest in an inn? Probably not lawful.
Holy crap. Robin Hood = Robbin' Hood. I JUST got that.