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Why aren't there more DnD games?!?!

KvotheRM8KvotheRM8 Member Posts: 54
Been gaming for 35 years, and 5e is my all-time favorite DnD version (after a few minor customizations). And BG type of games (biowarian) are also my ATF! Its like peanut butter and jelly, so why don't we have a game for the Stormking's Thunder? Ravenloft? Saltmarsh?? So many new and classic campaign settings that would absolutely murder games of today, including BG3 which is going to suck hard. You wouldn't even need to go crazy with graphics, dust off the same BGEE engine, convert it to 5e, BLAM pow WHAMMY!! ILL DROP $50 ON EACH OF THOSE!!

Comments

  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 720
    For the 5E modules, the short answer is "nobody's made them because nobody's making them" or some other such nonsensical tautological response. Hasbro/WotC is being remarkably picky with D&D licensees these days - BGIII is the first new D&D-adjacent CRPG-that's-actually-a-CRPG in a remarkably long time.

    ThacoBellKvotheRM8megamike15
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,491
    i wanna blame that lawsuit hasbro had with atari during neverwinter nights 2. that was the last main dnd game for awhile.

    no one wanted to make a 4th ed dnd game which is ironic as from what i hear that one was made with video games in mind.

    and no one really likes 5th edition and the few video games we got during it like sword coast legends were considered not that great.

    so besides sod which is more a throw back game lumped in with the crpg revival. the first main steam dnd game we currently have is bg 3.

    KvotheRM8
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,289
    The DnD games were made when videogames as a whole were a kind of niche hobby. As videogames got big, genres emerged that made big bank, and rapidly that was where all the money went. Mister Pennybags doesn't wanna fund that small time stuff.

    Wizards of the Coast, at the same time has had a lot of stuff going on business wise. Different policies about what sort of projects they're greenlighting and stuff.

    Kickstarter changed the game. Suddenly games didn't have to be made just based on what some rich executive thought would be profitable. A game company could outline a project and if there was an audience for that, they would shell out the cash themselves.

    So you started seeing kickstarters for throwbacks to these old DnD games. Spiritual successors to classics of gaming that you and I could feel pretty confident there was a market for, but would never have the raw data to prove it to an executive. And sure enough, the audience appeared. Just like that, it was established that as the gaming audience had grown, so too had the audience for these DnD adventures.

    It's possible that the sudden popularity of DnD podcasts also had a role to play in it, but that's a more tenuous connection.

    Also, business-wise wizards of the coast must've come back around. All the appropriate stars aligned into position and whatnot.

    Anyway, with these kickstarters having proven that there's money to be found here, suddenly the executives wanted a piece of the pie. So finally these games started getting the AAA treatment.

    megamike15ZaxaresThacoBellGrond0
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,148
    You'd think that but funnily enough it was actually Noober's fault.

    Chronicler
  • KvotheRM8KvotheRM8 Member Posts: 54
    elminster wrote: »
    You'd think that but funnily enough it was actually Noober's fault.

    Fun fact, you can murder Noober and it won't hurt your reputation.

  • KvotheRM8KvotheRM8 Member Posts: 54
    Chronicler wrote: »
    The DnD games were made when videogames as a whole were a kind of niche hobby. As videogames got big, genres emerged that made big bank, and rapidly that was where all the money went. Mister Pennybags doesn't wanna fund that small time stuff.

    Wizards of the Coast, at the same time has had a lot of stuff going on business wise. Different policies about what sort of projects they're greenlighting and stuff.

    Kickstarter changed the game. Suddenly games didn't have to be made just based on what some rich executive thought would be profitable. A game company could outline a project and if there was an audience for that, they would shell out the cash themselves.

    So you started seeing kickstarters for throwbacks to these old DnD games. Spiritual successors to classics of gaming that you and I could feel pretty confident there was a market for, but would never have the raw data to prove it to an executive. And sure enough, the audience appeared. Just like that, it was established that as the gaming audience had grown, so too had the audience for these DnD adventures.

    It's possible that the sudden popularity of DnD podcasts also had a role to play in it, but that's a more tenuous connection.

    Also, business-wise wizards of the coast must've come back around. All the appropriate stars aligned into position and whatnot.

    Anyway, with these kickstarters having proven that there's money to be found here, suddenly the executives wanted a piece of the pie. So finally these games started getting the AAA treatment.

    Are you referring to Pillars of Eternity? If not, where can I find these kickstarters? Sounds like I want to give them my money.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,668
    @megamike15 "and no one really likes 5th edition "

    Bascuse me? From what I've seen, 5e has been pretty popular. I'v seen...2 people complain about it, like at all.

    kanisatha
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,105
    If we go by the exact words of this thread's title, namely "D&D games," then the notion that there haven't been a lot of games recently is incorrect. There actually have been several D&D games made in recent years. I believe what the OP is really asking is why we haven't had any classic, old-school, isometric cRPGs using the D&D license? And I think the answer is right there in the question which is that classic, old-school, isometric cRPGs are a very small niche genre in digital games these days, and the big developers are no longer interested in working within that small niche genre. Smaller/indie studios have tried to continue working in that genre but with mixed results. All you have to do is look at the difference in sales between PoE2 (a classic, old-school, isometric cRPG) and TOW (a cRPG for sure but NOT an old-school isometric cRPG), a great comparison because they're both even from the same studio. PoE2 only broke even in sales whereas TOW has been a huge sales success. Heck even Obsidian's survival RPG, Grounded, has had better sales than PoE2.

    Larian is one studio that believes it can take the classic, old-school, isometric cRPG genre mainstream by using the popularity of PnP 5e D&D (yes it is very popular, with an estimated 15 million people currently playing it in the US alone), a highly recognized brand-name with a very large, already-established, and passionate following. And yet for all that I highly doubt it will work. But good on them to give it a try.

    KvotheRM8Grond0Pokota
  • KvotheRM8KvotheRM8 Member Posts: 54
    What is TOW? And I see your point, but mine was partially missed by you. You don't need to spend a lot to make a lot. PoE and its successor have a somewhat newer engine, im not even suggesting something that fancy. And you don't need to advertise much either, it would catch like wildfire amongst the 15m plus that you mentioned. You could spend significantly less and net considerably more.

    I'm not interested in just the oldies, but seeing them reimagioned in 5e is very cool. I really like the new material 5e has out too. Stormking is engrossing, it could easily go for 30 hrs of game play as a sandbox style of game. There's money to be made from a niche, and if its done in retro graphic and design I suspect I'm not the only one who would slide into those worn slippers.

    kanisatha
  • KvotheRM8KvotheRM8 Member Posts: 54
    Don't worry, there will be plenty of DnD games soon. https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/02/wizards-of-the-coast-reveals-the-next-five-years-of-dd-gaming.html

    The next Beamdog's game is not DnD, though.

    Let's wait and see if its going to be good. When I read key words like "movie" and "dark alliance" I cringe.

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,105
    KvotheRM8 wrote: »
    What is TOW? And I see your point, but mine was partially missed by you. You don't need to spend a lot to make a lot. PoE and its successor have a somewhat newer engine, im not even suggesting something that fancy. And you don't need to advertise much either, it would catch like wildfire amongst the 15m plus that you mentioned. You could spend significantly less and net considerably more.

    I'm not interested in just the oldies, but seeing them reimagioned in 5e is very cool. I really like the new material 5e has out too. Stormking is engrossing, it could easily go for 30 hrs of game play as a sandbox style of game. There's money to be made from a niche, and if its done in retro graphic and design I suspect I'm not the only one who would slide into those worn slippers.
    TOW is The Outer Worlds, Obsidian's recent first-person sci-fi cRPG loosely meant to be their successor to the old Fallout games.

    And no I did get your point. That's why I included that line about smaller/indie studios. Yes absolutely, I agree with you. Margin of profit = sales returns - cost of production (loosely applied). So if cost is low, the studio could be quite happy with relatively low sales (see Owlcat's extreme happiness about their P:Km sales). But even those indie studios don't necessarily want to just keep making D&D games. A creative person is always going to want to try and do something new or different. And besides, working with WotC has long proven to be a serious pain in the ass. So different studios have chosen to take different paths. Obsidian and inXile went with creating their own new IPs. Owlcat went with Paizo as a better alternative to WotC. Ceres Games and Tactical Adventures opted for using the D&D D20 SRD OGL so they could use D&D mechanics but with their own home-brew setting for their respective games.

    Having said all that, yes, the head of Hasbro recently said in multiple interviews the goal of WotC is to release two D&D-based games this year (BG3 and Dark Alliance), and then one game per year thereafter through 2025. But the catch is these won't all be classic cRPGs, or even RPGs more broadly. They will include mobile/console-only games, card games, and the like. So odds of another classic cRPG like BG3 are not very good. Btw, I for one am looking forward to DA. It will have RTwP combat, and that alone makes it a game I will buy just to support studios making RTwP games. I am now of a mind that any studio that makes a RTwP RPG, no matter how lame the game, I am buying that game at full price to serve as my support for more RTwP games.

    On the point of WotC making more D&D games in the coming years, I truly hope that somewhere within that master plan they will be of a mind to approach CDPR to have them make a Forgotten Realms game along the lines of Witcher 3. I would kill for a game that, for example, tells the story of the rise of Cormy (based on the Cormyr Saga books) where we get to play as Azoun IV from his young days as an adventurer all the way to his eventual death. Or else a series of games where we get to play as one of any number of awesome FR characters such as The Blackstaff, or The Simbul, or Halaster, or Erevis Cale. A Witcher 3 style game based on any of these iconic FR characters would be an instant blockbuster.

    KvotheRM8
  • m7600m7600 Member Posts: 49
    For an Infinity Engine style game, there's always the possibility of making a new, free and open source one using GemRB. No new games have been made with it so far, but the potential is there. Currently the greatest obstacle is to have a lot of new art assets, since nothing from the original Infinity Engine games can be used due to copyright issues.

    KvotheRM8
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,668
    Just to clarify, in case anyone has expectations, Grounded is not an RPG. Its a full on survival game, like Minecraft or Subnautica. Its a "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" flavor, which is pretty great.

    megamike15
  • KvotheRM8KvotheRM8 Member Posts: 54
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Just to clarify, in case anyone has expectations, Grounded is not an RPG. Its a full on survival game, like Minecraft or Subnautica. Its a "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" flavor, which is pretty great.

    I think its beautiful when a lot of people enjoy massive online games together, that isn't violent. And just work to achieve things instead of destroying or surviving the scenarios. It's not a trivial thing either, its an island of serenity in a cyber cloud of hostility and chaos. A cloud that is hastily forming a soul, a very dark, cold soul.

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