It shouldn't be possible for Asterion to be a vampire; it breaks all lore with Elves in general.
Kaliesto
Member Posts: 282
Anyone that actually understand what Elves are both in Oerth and Toril that it doesn't work that way with Elves; Elves that are bit by vampires would simply reject the curse because of their divine magical biology that protects most Elves from such things (and yes that would even include the Drow)
Consider the Fact that the Elven Deities protect them as well.
Also consider the fact that Most Elves are near-immortal to begin with, so there is logical problem with Asterion.
The only way Asterion could possibly become a Vampire if he did something completely unorthodox that would require a rather big lore retcon because that would mean Elves are not actually immune to such things. Asterion would be a incredibly rare case for a Elf to take things that far if he somehow managed to find a way to become a Vampire.
This was also a problem with Baelnorns because the logic behind it doesn't make any real sense because of what Elves are (again).
I'm only seeing this as some really bad marketing gimmick because people are bored with the traditional guidelines, so they got to muddy up the waters to make something "cool" when its really ridiculous.
Long Long time ago there was a big stink with the Fiend Folio when it came out decades ago because of how ridiculous some of the creatures were, and this really is no different from that.
It is fine with you disagree with me, but when you keep breaking guideline after guideline then it stops being logical but instead real goofy.
Everything else that Larian Studio has done has been incredibly impressive, and I enjoy it, but Asterion I feel they really drop the ball on that guy just because of the lore issues with his Vampirism.
Maybe Larian Studios meant well I don't know, but I hope this wasn't some kind of marketing gimmick.
BEFORE someone brings up Bodhi from BG2; her existence as a Vampire had logic behind it because of the unusual circumstances that led her to vampirism which I could get behind.
At least the logic for Bodhi makes sense, but Asterion not so much unless he is the same case as Bodhi.
I hope Larian Studios will clarify what is the deal with Asterion later on.
Consider the Fact that the Elven Deities protect them as well.
Also consider the fact that Most Elves are near-immortal to begin with, so there is logical problem with Asterion.
The only way Asterion could possibly become a Vampire if he did something completely unorthodox that would require a rather big lore retcon because that would mean Elves are not actually immune to such things. Asterion would be a incredibly rare case for a Elf to take things that far if he somehow managed to find a way to become a Vampire.
This was also a problem with Baelnorns because the logic behind it doesn't make any real sense because of what Elves are (again).
I'm only seeing this as some really bad marketing gimmick because people are bored with the traditional guidelines, so they got to muddy up the waters to make something "cool" when its really ridiculous.
Long Long time ago there was a big stink with the Fiend Folio when it came out decades ago because of how ridiculous some of the creatures were, and this really is no different from that.
It is fine with you disagree with me, but when you keep breaking guideline after guideline then it stops being logical but instead real goofy.
Everything else that Larian Studio has done has been incredibly impressive, and I enjoy it, but Asterion I feel they really drop the ball on that guy just because of the lore issues with his Vampirism.
Maybe Larian Studios meant well I don't know, but I hope this wasn't some kind of marketing gimmick.
BEFORE someone brings up Bodhi from BG2; her existence as a Vampire had logic behind it because of the unusual circumstances that led her to vampirism which I could get behind.
At least the logic for Bodhi makes sense, but Asterion not so much unless he is the same case as Bodhi.
I hope Larian Studios will clarify what is the deal with Asterion later on.
Post edited by Kaliesto on
3
Comments
I'm more concerned about the fact that a level 1 vampire is able to mix in with the high society of a major city without being immediately found out. He is wearing no artifacts to disguise his presence. Is there nobody within the entire city who can detect undead? Unlikely. He should have been discovered and disposed of a long time ago. A vampire in a position of authority in a major city needs character levels, possession of a unique item, or something to justify how they are able to do so.
It is interesting that even a game like Skyrim which is frequently derided as being some type of "RPG for Dummies" has FAR more restrictions and penalties for living as a vampire.
Bohdi wasn't an elf anymore. Remeber the curse laid on her and Irenicus by the Seldarine?
Was it stated that she ceased to be of the elf race, I took it that she was an exile and without a soul? Her entry in the BG2 wiki says she is an elven vampire
This. I dont mind some weird mental gymnastics to argue that because Bodhi was exiled from the elven race that she lost some elven spark that protected her from being made undead - but even this has consistency issues because both Aerie and Viconia are turned into vampires by Bodhi if you have romanced them in chapter 6.
Far more likely is that the developers of BG2 didnt stop to consider the metaphysical state of Bodhi's soul as being that thing that allows her to be made into a vampire, and instead just thought it was a pretty cool plot point.
I dont think there's a lot of room here to give BG2 a pass and not BG3 on this point. Either both offended the lore, or neither did.
For my own interpretation - I dont much care. I think both are fine and dont mind them being vampires.
Its explicitly stated that what made them "elven" was taken away and would not be able to join the elven afterlife. Their lives were shortened as well because of it.
*edit*
Oh, and I think its worth mentioning that Suldanessalar no longer recognized them as elves either. They lost their link to nature (Irenicus mentions that for awhile, he would briefly be aware of it as he used to be in one of his journals) as well. Literally everything that made them "elven" was removed. It was thourough enough that Drow priestesses could not identify Irenicus as elven. As paranoid as all Drow are, there's no way they didn't use any divination magic.
And it's Larian so I doubt they'll really make him very interesting, they've never been good at that before.
It wasn't JUST an exile. Bohdi and Irenicus were both cursed and lost both access to the elven afterlife, elven lifespan, and the elves' link to nature. This not interpretation, it is stated outright.
and this was not even a case of just turning them into mortals it did more as jon is suffering from memory loss whitch is why he writes the journals.
I want to thank you for clarifying this; honestly this whole debate started with my dad because he played First Edition way back when it started. We had a heated debate concerning Asterion because what you already stated, but he simply didn't go indepth as to why Asterion couldn't become a vampire. He stopped playing the game at 2nd Edition because he felt the game was taking too many liberties and becoming idiotic with traditional myths.
and apparently Vampires are actually picky whom they infect because something to do with Blood if it was compatible or not, and sometimes it was beneath a Vampire to infect something that would make a mockery of their kin.
He's not wrong. I mean from a prospective tabletop player point of view it doesn't matter a huge amount to me because I just see it as a set of mechanics that make up a game of freeform storytelling, but from a writer's pov the issue with what D&D lore has turned into is that it becomes a bit hard to make storylines feel special when everything has kind of elevated into cartoonish logic and become not high fantasy but stratospheric fantasy. And that harms the videogames for me more because I do go into those wanting to get into the story. And I think this specific comparison of Bodhi and Asterion is a good example of the first being treated as extremely strange, dark and twisted that only could have occured due to specific events that are intrinsically tied to the character and the plot and "hey, here's a level 1 vampire spawn elf for your party, if you swing that way. He also has an Illithid tadpole in his brain because this story's actually about mindflayers."
It makes it not exactly something special. I feel like the most unusual the game should have got if it was written with more ah, deliberation is the Githyanki character given their cross dimensional conflict with the illithids, you could probably use her as a useful character the player can learn more about the situation through. That makes sense. Having a Vampire spawn elf there seems very unnecessary to me. If he was a secret hard to get NPC who came late in the game, maybe but... at the start? Really?
But like BallpointMan posted up above, its not just Bodhi in BG2. Its also elves Aerie and Viconia (and Half-Elf Jaheira) if you romance them!
And the game built UP to that point.
In Bodhi's case, becoming vampire was a way to bypass a curse made by Seldarine in order to retain some semblence of immortality. Vampirism is higher tier curse cos it no only severs an elf from it's soul or heritage - it severs a link to all living things. To very essence of life itself. So she fell even lower than her brother as she became an udead.