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Road to 2.6 | Planned Patch Items | Windows, macOS, Linux

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  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,285
    Exploits make a lot of sense to fix for fairness in competitive play. For single player games it is more a statement on what the game mechanics is supposed to be like.

  • GreenerGreener Member Posts: 395
    Could potion stacking be an option that is selectable in the gameplay settings?

  • VicissitudeVicissitude Member Posts: 18
    edited March 3
    There are debates I'll never understand...

    If the creators intended for something that wasn't implemented properly - if at all - then sure, it ought to be corrected. If what's true to the spirit of the original is not to your liking then please, mod the game.

    That said, I've never seen anything that proves potion-stacking to be an oversight from the developers. I mean, ACTUAL proof. If anyone has information on that, please tell us. If not, why would you “fix” something that's neither missing nor broken?

    To that, some people argue that they want a challenge. I call it out as misleading. What you're asking is not a challenge for yourself but a change of rules for everyone. If you don't want to drink one potion after the other, then just don't. You don't need Beamdog for that and if you can't follow the rules you set for yourself, that's your responsibility. Not ours.

    In the end, it all comes down to one simple fact : in the current state of the game you're free to follow your self-imposed rules regarding potions while others can cheese the game (do they really, anyway?) if they feel like it. Everybody's happy! To frustrate others with a so-called fix for something you could do from the start is ludicrous imo. I absolutely cannot wrap my mind around it.

    I could understand such plea IF what you were trying to accomplish was out of your will, then an actual fix to make your game harder would be necessary with good reasons. Since this is not the case, I fail to see the point entirely. I could stop right there since I believe it's enough to dismiss the idea, but let's dig in a little deeper.

    Others contend this is game-breaking. I could argue it isn't since the fix is aimed at the potion type and not the effect provided, so it's often possible to reach the same benefits with a combination of items, potions and spells. I could also point out that warriors and thieves will mostly benefit from potion stacking which mitigates the power gap with spellcasters. So if you're REALLY concerned with balance, you should support potion stacking to put a damper on the cycle of mages going unchallenged. Heck, you might even encourage players to use such trick to ramp up their power! Therefore, it's not game-breaking.

    But let's assume it is, just for the sake of argument. First, let me say that there are MANY overpowered items, spells and even classes in Baldur's Gate. Breaking balance is not an argument in itself otherwise we wouldn't have a large majority of players who agree that the Fighter/Mage is the strongest of all classes and almost none who wish otherwise. In itself, arcane spellcasting reaches godly heights to the point it outshines pretty much everything else. Almost everyone accepts this because PVP was never core to Baldur's Gate so we don't need to balance everything out. This applies to items as well. Going crazy-powerful is FINE. It's part of the game's identity. You're not playing some unremarkable and unexceptional lad, are you?

    So it's not enough to find something overpowered, it must feel undeserved. So how is being able to quaff identical potions such an outrage? Potions are not heaven-sent, they must be collected and managed. You might stack, sure, but you're not going to stack very long. So this is hardly a free ride and potion stacking is actually very niche. Most people will never use it and the people who WILL use it will do so to scribe scrolls without failure, most of the time. Does that sound horrendous? Finally, reaching power peaks for short periods of time is nowhere near unfamilar in Baldur's Gate so I fail to see what the fuss is about, no matter how you want to look at it.

    I usually try to be moderate but this? It's just a bad idea to me and I think it's wise to revoke the “fix”... unless someone can bring hard evidence that it shouldn't work that way. Not in D&D, but in Baldur's Gate. These are two different entities, mind you.

    Post edited by Vicissitude on
    MERLANCEJohnLaertesAerakar
  • Prince_RaymondPrince_Raymond Member Posts: 369
    edited March 13
    On the flipside of this discussion, let us all be vigilant in reporting any bugs or issues that would either handicap or hinder a character's full potential. Just as we players should resist the temptation of powergaming, so should we also not allow our characters to become underpowered. Thank you for reading, and happy (healthy) gaming to all.

    Edit: Removed text related to an issue that has been mentioned before in a thread dedicated to another game. Apologies. I was just trying to emphasize my point in avoiding complacency.

    Post edited by Prince_Raymond on
    StummvonBordwehrPokota
  • FelipefplFelipefpl Member Posts: 38
    Good point about potential, i hope now the game will be set to 60 FPS instead of the 30 it's set now.

  • VicissitudeVicissitude Member Posts: 18
    edited March 5
    There are a lot of personal feelings from players about this issue which I really like because it shows our commitment to the game.

    You're absolutely right. Whenever someone has a strong opinion it means that they care. So many games have fallen into oblivion it's easy to forget we're bickering about a game that's more than twenty years old. It's mind-blowing! The downside is that the atmosphere can get a little tense. You can't have one without the other, unfortunately.
    If a developer takes it in scope to change the behaviour of a certain feature, then that means they are making statements on what their vision is for their product, in this case related to the game mechanics.

    Do you really believe it's that simple? First, it's not exactly their product. Yes, they do have the rights - or some of the rights, I guess - but that doesn't mean they can do just anything. Baldur's Gate is a legacy, not some mass product released out of the blue that you can shape anyway you like because people don't care. It's more like art. I can cite numerous controversies of developers who didn't bother to respect the legacy of their game with immense backfiring in the end. Sometimes it's justified, other times it isn't. Sometimes players will embrace change, other times they won't. Either way, it's something one must consider.

    And Beamdog has, in my opinion! You need only look at the steam page of the game to find out they mention the original Baldur’s Gate adventure. To get to that page, you can start right here, on this website, by clicking "games" then "Baldur's Gate" and what do you get as a selling point? The "classic" RPG, of course! That's two attempts to play on your nostalgia in a few clicks. How would you feel buying the game based on that to find out later it's nothing to do with the original game?

    So the message is clear: it's the good old-fashioned Baldur's Gate with just a few tweaks to make it better, not to mention brand-new stories that won't conflict very much. And guess what? It's exactly how I feel when I play the Enhanced Edition and it's the reason why I find it's a real success. They found the proper balance between not adding anything new and twisting our beloved game into something we don't recognize.
    Neither the player base nor the developers actually need to prove anything to anyone on whether the feature was a bug to begin with or not. Either way, both responses and implementations by beamdog should be considered valid by the player base.

    I'd claim it's the exact opposite. Developers should never look down on the fanbase and act on a whim, nor should they be afraid to change anything. Every change has to be pondered, pros and cons must be examined. If possible, players should be consulted. It takes time and it's not easy so call it a moral obligation if you want, but I believe it's worth something here.

    Besides, it's not like it's impossible. Beamdog just did it with that potion-stacking controversy! It's another proof that they're fit for the job and I wouldn't want anyone else doing this.

    Let me also point out that the discussions you seem to care so much about wouldn't exist if Beamdog were reckless, forcing our hand to take just anything because they can. Or maybe there would be discussions, but with massive resentment and bitterness. More trolling than sharing. I've seen it elsewhere and I guarantee you don't want that.

  • ArviaArvia Member, Moderator Posts: 1,605
    Felipefpl wrote: »
    Good point about potential, i hope now the game will be set to 60 FPS instead of the 30 it's set now.

    You can change the frame rate from 30 to 60 in the baldur.LUA file in the game directory.

    JuliusBorisov
  • FelipefplFelipefpl Member Posts: 38
    You can change the frame rate from 30 to 60 in the baldur.LUA file in the game directory.

    I know but there are no reason to keep things like they were in the past, specially if they harm gameplay making it annoying. ;)

  • ArviaArvia Member, Moderator Posts: 1,605
    Felipefpl wrote: »
    You can change the frame rate from 30 to 60 in the baldur.LUA file in the game directory.

    I know but there are no reason to keep things like they were in the past, specially if they harm gameplay making it annoying. ;)

    That's a matter of opinion, I suppose. For some people, a double frame rate means you have to use pause a lot more often to react to enemy actions or to issue commands in battle. Or to click on Gellana Mirrorshade :)

  • ratamoratamo Member Posts: 16
    Two things come to my mind:
    - Jaheira's romance - not a fix yet? This has been sadly broken ever since the year 2000
    - When entering an area and immediately opening the map screen with M on PC, the map screen as immediately closes by itself

    Hafir
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,613
    1. The romance is not broken itself. It's working as intended. If you have a problem with it, please upload a save.
    2. I confirm this minor issue, thanks!

    HafirTimbo0o0o0
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 973
    No news about the custom voiceset feature I see.

  • StonebearStonebear Member Posts: 5
    All of a sudden, there are 2 pages of comments, with more than 40 new comments in 2 days. Thanks for tons of feedback, moments like this show how passionate players of these games are and how important it is to test things out before releasing a regular patch.

    I don't have an immediate response regarding the issue as all this discussion happened during the weekend but my personal take would be to reverse the change as we don't want to introduce huge changes to the game balance at this stage of the game development, and the majority of voices here are against this change.

    Speaking of which, any word on the doubled hit point rolls on level-up?

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,613
    That is some real positivity, thank you! <3

    Aerakar
  • ratamoratamo Member Posts: 16
    edited March 7
    1. The romance is not broken itself. It's working as intended. If you have a problem with it, please upload a save.
    Ah, okay. I have to admit I haven't written down when was the last time I tested it, so if it has been fixed previously, good enough. I'll try it when 2.6 is released. :)
    2. I confirm this minor issue, thanks!
    Fixing this would be an absolute treat. I want the party to start moving to their destination immediately when I enter an area (open area map -> click the destination -> close map -> click to the screen so they start walking), so this delays it considerably.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,613
    edited March 10
    @ratamo I've passed this along. This bug also occurred in 2.5 (so it's not new for 2.6).

    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
    ratamo
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 24
    Was there any change to the lightning contraption from Irenicus's dungeon?

    I am asking because i had just started a new play through in BG2EE (version 2.6.5.0) and i usually like to kill all mephits before activating the switch to turn off the lightning contraption. The old behavior of the lightning bolts shot by the contraption when it spawned new mephits was that the bolt would hit the wall and disappear but now it bounces back (and considering that it's a small room, it bounces back several time) and can hit your party several times and can kill you very fast.

    If i would make a guess, i would say that there was a change in regards to what type of lightning bolt the contraption shoots: before, it was shooting the same kind of bolt which is used by the lightning mephits (that one does low damage and does not bounce) and after the change it shoots a level 3 spell lightning bolt (it has high damage, a save vs. spell and will bounce).

    GalactygonProont
  • GalactygonGalactygon Member, Developer Posts: 406
    Thanks for the report. The trap spell is "SPWI017" and it should use the no bounce version (207) rather than the bounce version (206).

    Before 2.6, those 2 projectile entries were hardcoded in BG2EE but not IWDEE which had fully externalized but dysfunctional LB projectiles. Both projectile entries were non-bouncy in BG1/2 while one of them was bouncy in IWDEE (206). Now the projectiles have been fixed and fully externalized in all games as was done in IWDEE before 2.6. Looks like we forgot to make sure spells using 206 use 207 in the BG games. Will be fixed in 2.7.

    4ltairATigersClawProont
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 24
    Thank you also for the nice technical background.

    Until 2.7, no reload runs beware, as the bolt kills quickly and the first one will bonce in the same area with the contraption switch and it would be a real pity to lose a character right at the beginning of the game and even more so if it's a trilogy run.

  • SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 133
    edited March 14
    Greetings.
    Got myself fighter/druid multi (iwd 2.5)
    Put on a splint mail
    Still can cast a sunscorch
    (and same with all shields)
    Isn't this a bug?

  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 117
    SorrowSeer wrote: »
    Greetings.
    Got myself fighter/druid multi (iwd 2.5)
    Put on a splint mail
    Still can cast a sunscorch
    (and same with all shields)
    Isn't this a bug?
    Hi, no, it's the normal behaviour. in unmodded game, multiclass fighter/druid can wear any armor and shield.
    Divine magic is not blocked by wearing armor.

    SorrowSeerStummvonBordwehr
  • SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 133
    Trouveur wrote: »
    Hi, no, it's the normal behaviour. in unmodded game, multiclass fighter/druid can wear any armor and shield.
    Divine magic is not blocked by wearing armor.

    Thought that in EE druids can't cast spells for some time, if they wear/put on something metal (armor or shield).

  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 117
    SorrowSeer wrote: »
    Trouveur wrote: »
    Hi, no, it's the normal behaviour. in unmodded game, multiclass fighter/druid can wear any armor and shield.
    Divine magic is not blocked by wearing armor.

    Thought that in EE druids can't cast spells for some time, if they wear/put on something metal (armor or shield).
    Not in the Infiny Engine EE games. Maybe in NWN EE ?

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