Right And Wrong
This is um, complicated. So I am, well me, but my family has almost a lesser option of my sister. They say we are twins even though I am five inches taller, and seriously she was a model. Literally her first paying job was as a model, traveled the world and met everyone. Yeah, not twins.
So why does my family have such a low opinion of her? Good question and why I am starting this thread. She has always been openly bisexual. Not my family’s problem, what they refuse to accept is that her and her husband regularly have relations with other couples. I personally don’t care, she is one of my best friends and well, they are amazing together. She is so in love with him. Besides I have never seen a couple more suited to be together.
Here is the thread, what is right? What is wrong? They are preposterously devoted to each other, how can what they do as consenting almost fifty year olds be wrong? I have always been the outcast and have gotten used to that. Tonight I talked to my brother’s girlfriend for hours. So yeah, I called my brother but in reality I just FaceTime with his girlfriend. Don’t know why. She asked what my sister had been up to and was she still being such a, kay this could be edited, slut? Seriously? I even asked her why my family hates me but talks so much about my sister and my brother chimes in over her shoulder, Because you have never even had sex and she is married and has sex with other people all the time. So... that is a not true.I have had sex long ago a few times, but it was with women and not exactly fun for me. Somehow though my Trump supporting brother thinks that I somehow, me, I have the moral high ground on my sister? How?!
Really, this is the crux of this discussion. Where is right and wrong located? What do you see as right or at least okay, but others see as wrong.
My sister and I were both sexually abused, we both kind of grew up in the same family. I was raised by my grandparents, my parents were not very happy with having me as a child. The autistic little girl boy that no one wanted, different discussion. Even without all of that, I don’t see what my sister is doing as wrong. Their children are grown, and thriving. One is a psychologist and the other is and art teacher, mother of two that works with the underprivileged. Is it wrong that they have sex with other couples on the weekends? Or straying a bit, Is my very frumpy friend that likes to go to nude beaches with her boyfriend somehow morally repugnant?
Please, share your diverse right vs wrong rants, I really need some context. Don’t be hurtful to others though okay, be respectful.
So why does my family have such a low opinion of her? Good question and why I am starting this thread. She has always been openly bisexual. Not my family’s problem, what they refuse to accept is that her and her husband regularly have relations with other couples. I personally don’t care, she is one of my best friends and well, they are amazing together. She is so in love with him. Besides I have never seen a couple more suited to be together.
Here is the thread, what is right? What is wrong? They are preposterously devoted to each other, how can what they do as consenting almost fifty year olds be wrong? I have always been the outcast and have gotten used to that. Tonight I talked to my brother’s girlfriend for hours. So yeah, I called my brother but in reality I just FaceTime with his girlfriend. Don’t know why. She asked what my sister had been up to and was she still being such a, kay this could be edited, slut? Seriously? I even asked her why my family hates me but talks so much about my sister and my brother chimes in over her shoulder, Because you have never even had sex and she is married and has sex with other people all the time. So... that is a not true.I have had sex long ago a few times, but it was with women and not exactly fun for me. Somehow though my Trump supporting brother thinks that I somehow, me, I have the moral high ground on my sister? How?!
Really, this is the crux of this discussion. Where is right and wrong located? What do you see as right or at least okay, but others see as wrong.
My sister and I were both sexually abused, we both kind of grew up in the same family. I was raised by my grandparents, my parents were not very happy with having me as a child. The autistic little girl boy that no one wanted, different discussion. Even without all of that, I don’t see what my sister is doing as wrong. Their children are grown, and thriving. One is a psychologist and the other is and art teacher, mother of two that works with the underprivileged. Is it wrong that they have sex with other couples on the weekends? Or straying a bit, Is my very frumpy friend that likes to go to nude beaches with her boyfriend somehow morally repugnant?
Please, share your diverse right vs wrong rants, I really need some context. Don’t be hurtful to others though okay, be respectful.
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Comments
i also think it kind of comes down to generational attitudes when baby boomers/ gen X'ers are more set in their ways then millennials are, and millennials and gen Z are more open just because that is how the cultural norm is now adays, now this is not set in stone for each generation of person, but more or less at least in my experience this is how it is
now when it comes to whats right and whats wrong, it depends on what context you put it in, if we are going by law, then the law is the law, if the law says something is, then that is the way it is, hence the reason why laws exist in the first place, and when it comes to lawful rights and wrongs the law is their to do it's best to make sure that rights and wrongs are definitive to make it "more fair"? for society i suppose, also country culture can have a huge impact on this as well, but for the most part, an attempt at fairness i believe is the goal here ( give or take the people involved making these said laws )
but if its more based on morals, then usually you would go the path of; if its not hurting anybody then it's not a problem
plus some people are just negative in general and no matter how much positive influence you throw their way they are just not going to change, because if a person is not willing to change for the better then it will be impossible to change them anyway
also realistically if people can't handle other people doing things against their beliefs ( especially if they aren't hurting anyone ) that is just a bullshit baby attitude to have, and they seriously need to grow up.
For example; me personally i don't give a damn that swingers exist, if that is how some people want to be, so be it, would i ever do it? nope, but just because its something that i wouldn't do doesnt mean i have the right to say that its bad because its against *my* beliefs
also, realistically the world as a whole doesnt really give the slightest damn what anyone thinks to be honest, whether people believe in something or not, or if a belief is against what they believe it is irrelevant because the world is going to keep on spinning anyway
as i get older, im luckily getting a bit more wiser, especially with people on the internet as well. There are so many people out there spewing just absolute nonsense, and sometimes it just drives me bat shit crazy, ( and no doubt others as well ) especially when it comes to things like science or something that science can solve, holy hell some days it can be a mess
but now adays i no longer get involved with that stuff, if people want to post things that are wrong, i dont say a word and i dont get involved because A, they wont give a damn what i have to say and B, more than likely they are going to defend their idea even harder
the way i look at it, if people want to be ignorantly wrong, i let them, and then let reality slam their chowder for their ignorance, its quite ironic really as the saying goes; ignorance is bliss, pfeh, more like ignorance is a terrible trait to possess, especially if you are given objective facts that you shouldn't be discarding
sorry if this is such a mess, starting this at 4am when you haven't gone to bed yet sure doesnt help make things too clear haha
but another thing i want to say is; people who have nothing better to do but complain about others, bleh, can realistically just go pound sand, again if those same people that they are complaining about aren't hurting anyone doing their silly shenanigans
for example, by the sounds of it, you seem to be a much more passive person with a more "positive" aura around you sort of deal, and as long as people are being complete dimwits you would have no problem hanging out with others
your parents on the other hand, even if they are good natured ( which by default i assume most parents are ) when they start to complain or rant about nonsense that doesn't matter, it kind of makes an awful funk in the air where you want to get the hell out of there
i remember my grandpa was like this when he first moved to BC from Ontario, he lived alone for too long and had to many grudges and had the sterotypical super grumpy old man thing going on. Well when he came to BC he was taught to flip turn that nonsense attitude around because he wasn't going to last out here with that, but with that being said, back in the Ontario days when he would go into unnecessary grumpy man mode you just wanted to get the hell out of there, because it was just unnecessary negative funk
plus know what, now that i think of it, people in general aren't really amazing to be honest. Everyone if filled with stress and anxiety and all this what not, winging life, having no clue what they are doing and just hoping for the best, and because of that for the most part perhaps that is what makes them stand off-ish, and because they are so stressed and have so much anxiety they just can't control it and its frustrating for them and they accidentally blow some off it off with their ideals and have a more difficult time accepting others because they of themself are such a mess
i want to believe that for the most part, everyone on earth more or less wants a utopian world, where no one has to worry about criminals or humans intentionally harming other humans and so on, but whats stopping it all is because a lot of people but no effort to executing excellence in their daily lives. People at best just make a half ass effort at everything and what until the day they are 6 feet in the mud or a pile of sand in a jar on someone's fire place mantle
and especially during this pandemic, it was really disappointing to see the selfishness in people these days, everyone going bananas hoarding cleaning materials and toilet paper ( friggin' lol, of all things, seriously ) like seriously, does that really make the world a better place? where everyone only cares about themselves and if others peace out then too bad for them? how are we supposed to improve as a society if we have a dumbass mind set like that? now luckily everyone isn't like that, and it gives me hope, that eventually we will go back to progressing forward as a society to make the world a better place for everyone in it
well, hopefully some of that made sense and was on topic, but its 4:30 am now and i should be going to bed heh heh lulz
Impressive. I am not that coherent at 4.00 pm...
I would have agreed with you post, but since I haven’t moved to BC from Ontario, I just left a like.
I think that being prejudiced and judgemental on others is somewhat common in a small close knitted community. You have to have constant reaffirmation from the group that they will follow norm.
I have been there my self, and have been a bigoted person myself - trying to fit in, was my best excuse. I ended up disliking myself and my life; I Moved to a big city and ended up way more open-minded and accepting (and liking it). I actually don’t think I would have the guts to stick out for others in a prejudiced community - it’s easier to be accepting and open minded when others are so.
The small communities have their advantages over living in a bigger city for sure. But they can come off somewhat judgemental and prejudiced imho - it’s how they know they will remain a community and can trust in each other as I see it.
And please enjoy the irony here - me not being judgemental and all...
And don’t worry @_Nightfall_ , there are plenty people here, who love you just the way you are. You are perfect the way you are.
I think it's a mistake to assume that there's some greater logic to it. The fact is, when people object to the way other folks live their private lives, the thought process is just "I find this personally weird, so I think it's wrong." Meanwhile, folks who actually think these things through assume that there's a bigger story, because their beliefs are more complicated than that. You're trying to find logic in it because you think other people think in logical terms, just like you.
They don't. The opposition to polyamory is a simple impulse-response thing, no different from homophobia or transphobia. "Ew, no" is the entire thought process.
There are good and bad ways to go about polyamory. It doesn't suit most people. Humans are pretty jealous folks and generally don't like their partners to sleep with other people; that's just an evolutionary response. Monogamy is just a convenient way to deal with our typical jealousy.
It works pretty well, as long as people stick to it. It's the simplest way to make people feel safe and secure in their relationship. Marriage has the same function as an institution.
Polyamory takes more planning and more communication. Most people need to feel confident that their partner isn't going to leave them for someone else, and some polyamorous folks address that by having a "primary" relationship that anchors the others. "These other people I like might wander off, but this person will always be by my side."
Polyamory does have rules and boundaries most of the time. It's just that you and your partner(s) negotiate your own rules.
One of the tough things about monogamy is finding the right person to commit to. It's easy to find a platonic friend. It's easy to find a romantic partner. It's easy to find somebody you're attracted to. It's easy to find a roommate. It's easy to find somebody you'd trust to care for a child, or to share your finances with. And it's easy to find somebody who feels one of these ways about you.
But finding them all in the same person? That's kinda hard. That's the advantage of polyamory: you can pick multiple people to check all of those boxes collectively. Nobody has to be the perfect fit.
I used to think I was naturally monogamous, and I think most of that was really just me feeling like I'd never be able to find more than one person to love me, and I had to cling to a relationship for dear life or else be alone. After the transition restored my sense of self-worth, I realized that lots of people would love me, and the prospect of polyamory seemed less scary.
COVID has prevented my girlfriend and me from dating anybody this past year, but we're both really excited about it. I think one of the things that made it easier to contemplate is the idea that it's not just one of us dating some other person; it's both of us dating other people, as a single person. I don't feel like a truly independent person anymore; our brains kinda melded together at some point. We're a part of each other.
@_Nightfall_: Your sister isn't doing anything wrong, no. As long as her husband is okay with it, she's not hurting him, and that's what really matters.
I don’t have much experience with things like that, honestly made me cry. Thank you
I don’t know much about polyamory. My one friend is into that kind of thing but she likes the whips, ropes, cuffs, collars and all of that. Went to a “scene” with her one time, nope, no way, no thank you. I didn’t even stay until it was her turn, so she doesn’t talk about her lifestyle to me anymore. Fine by me, ugh! I don’t have a problem with people doing that sort of thing, from what I understand it is very regulated. Everything is agreed on beforehand and consent given. For me though, gonna give that a hard pass. Lol, as hot as the book was, I could not even finish 50 Shades of Grey. I did not even know my sister was into that sort of thing until a few weeks ago. Until November 18th I hadn’t even spoken to her in about six years when my mom passed away. My one brother and sister really started to call a lot after I lost my boyfriend. I don’t mind that she does that, not ever going to do that myself but it doesn’t break any of my three rules.
Take responsibility for yourself.
Don’t do anything to hurt anyone else.
Give back.
If you think about it, there is a lot of giving going on there.
Just not me though. I thought that I would be very promiscuous after I transitioned, I mean that was a long time to go without, but it never happened. Then I met my boyfriend and we did a lot of making out but according to one former president, not sexual relations.
I think that what consenting adults do is their business as long as no one is getting hurt and no laws are being broken. My one friend likes nude beaches, again not for me but I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. Now from what I understand there are beaches where whole families can go, have to say that I don’t agree with that at all. Nude children, nope. It makes me nauseous even thinking about it. I have had arguments with my friend over that. Now I had one friend when she went to Key West I think, with her then boyfriend and now husband, went topless and had her front painted with a butterfly. For years and years I thought that would be so much fun but when I went I was too embarrassed to do it. The friend I went with and her mom did. My friend was so mad at her mom because, well you know gravity takes it’s toll and her mom had basset hound faces painted on hers. I thought it was hilarious but my friend was not amused.
Because of my sister, and my brother’s reaction, I have really been thinking about right and wrong. So if anyone has other scenarios or more insight on these, I would love to hear them.
As I was saying...
The couples (I've known) in successful open relationships are able to separate their sex lives from their personal lives. They also build each other up and bring the best out of the other in unexpected ways. They have a very "natural" seamless style that usually takes time to evolve. I guess there's something to be said for not suppressing natural desires and feeling the need to lie about it.
As far as the good daughter/ bad daughter thing, it's more an issue of friendship. I know it sounds strange to talk about parents as friends... But once we grow up the relationship changes a bit. Would your parents normally spend time with "swingers"? I'm guessing not. I'm sure they love you both, and have similar warm fuzzy memories of both their little girls. But as adults they have different "comfort" levels. I have two adult daughters, and two different relationships. I can tell you honestly that much of it is "all in your/her head". Mostly it's in theirs, though. If they could stop looking at what people do in their beds and concentrate on what they do in their lives, it might change everything.
Sadly, many people see their frame of reference as a means to impose judgement upon others while that is not the intent of these boundaries.
No one has the right to dictate upon others what is right and wrong. My truth is not your truth.
Only the exact sciences pose a discrete frame of reference that people can fall back to (as in 1+1=2), although even those can be stretched to some extent (e does not actually equal mc2 in all cases).
Tldr. It's their life for them to live as they see fit, Same how your life is the way you should want to live it, and no one should impose their opinion on you. The only way to check is to ask, inquire and discuss without imposing the values.