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Right And Wrong

_Nightfall__Nightfall_ Member Posts: 458
This is um, complicated. So I am, well me, but my family has almost a lesser option of my sister. They say we are twins even though I am five inches taller, and seriously she was a model. Literally her first paying job was as a model, traveled the world and met everyone. Yeah, not twins.

So why does my family have such a low opinion of her? Good question and why I am starting this thread. She has always been openly bisexual. Not my family’s problem, what they refuse to accept is that her and her husband regularly have relations with other couples. I personally don’t care, she is one of my best friends and well, they are amazing together. She is so in love with him. Besides I have never seen a couple more suited to be together.

Here is the thread, what is right? What is wrong? They are preposterously devoted to each other, how can what they do as consenting almost fifty year olds be wrong? I have always been the outcast and have gotten used to that. Tonight I talked to my brother’s girlfriend for hours. So yeah, I called my brother but in reality I just FaceTime with his girlfriend. Don’t know why. She asked what my sister had been up to and was she still being such a, kay this could be edited, slut? Seriously? I even asked her why my family hates me but talks so much about my sister and my brother chimes in over her shoulder, Because you have never even had sex and she is married and has sex with other people all the time. So... that is a not true.I have had sex long ago a few times, but it was with women and not exactly fun for me. Somehow though my Trump supporting brother thinks that I somehow, me, I have the moral high ground on my sister? How?!

Really, this is the crux of this discussion. Where is right and wrong located? What do you see as right or at least okay, but others see as wrong.

My sister and I were both sexually abused, we both kind of grew up in the same family. I was raised by my grandparents, my parents were not very happy with having me as a child. The autistic little girl boy that no one wanted, different discussion. Even without all of that, I don’t see what my sister is doing as wrong. Their children are grown, and thriving. One is a psychologist and the other is and art teacher, mother of two that works with the underprivileged. Is it wrong that they have sex with other couples on the weekends? Or straying a bit, Is my very frumpy friend that likes to go to nude beaches with her boyfriend somehow morally repugnant?

Please, share your diverse right vs wrong rants, I really need some context. Don’t be hurtful to others though okay, be respectful.

StummvonBordwehrsemiticgoddess

Comments

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,209
    Personally, my mantra for what is "right" is to treat everybody with kindness, respect and consideration. Understand that what makes you happy may not necessarily make someone else happy (and vice versa), but as long as everybody involved is cognizant and consenting, and does no harm to somebody who is NOT consenting, let them live their lives as they wish. In situations where some harm is unavoidable (such as killing something for food), strive always to minimize pain and suffering, and to take no more than what is needed. This world is not here just for you, so nurture and safeguard it that future generations can enjoy it just as you have.

    semiticgoddessStummvonBordwehr_Nightfall_
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 944
    edited February 21
    @sarevok57
    Impressive. I am not that coherent at 4.00 pm...

    I would have agreed with you post, but since I haven’t moved to BC from Ontario, I just left a like.

    I think that being prejudiced and judgemental on others is somewhat common in a small close knitted community. You have to have constant reaffirmation from the group that they will follow norm.

    I have been there my self, and have been a bigoted person myself - trying to fit in, was my best excuse. I ended up disliking myself and my life; I Moved to a big city and ended up way more open-minded and accepting (and liking it). I actually don’t think I would have the guts to stick out for others in a prejudiced community - it’s easier to be accepting and open minded when others are so.

    The small communities have their advantages over living in a bigger city for sure. But they can come off somewhat judgemental and prejudiced imho - it’s how they know they will remain a community and can trust in each other as I see it.

    And please enjoy the irony here - me not being judgemental and all...

    And don’t worry @_Nightfall_ , there are plenty people here, who love you just the way you are. You are perfect the way you are.

    semiticgoddess_Nightfall_sarevok57
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,775
    People assume that what they grew up with is how the world is supposed to work. They see something that doesn't fit, like polyamory or homosexuality, and they find it weird and gross and therefore, presumably, wrong.

    I think it's a mistake to assume that there's some greater logic to it. The fact is, when people object to the way other folks live their private lives, the thought process is just "I find this personally weird, so I think it's wrong." Meanwhile, folks who actually think these things through assume that there's a bigger story, because their beliefs are more complicated than that. You're trying to find logic in it because you think other people think in logical terms, just like you.

    They don't. The opposition to polyamory is a simple impulse-response thing, no different from homophobia or transphobia. "Ew, no" is the entire thought process.

    There are good and bad ways to go about polyamory. It doesn't suit most people. Humans are pretty jealous folks and generally don't like their partners to sleep with other people; that's just an evolutionary response. Monogamy is just a convenient way to deal with our typical jealousy.

    It works pretty well, as long as people stick to it. It's the simplest way to make people feel safe and secure in their relationship. Marriage has the same function as an institution.

    Polyamory takes more planning and more communication. Most people need to feel confident that their partner isn't going to leave them for someone else, and some polyamorous folks address that by having a "primary" relationship that anchors the others. "These other people I like might wander off, but this person will always be by my side."

    Polyamory does have rules and boundaries most of the time. It's just that you and your partner(s) negotiate your own rules.

    One of the tough things about monogamy is finding the right person to commit to. It's easy to find a platonic friend. It's easy to find a romantic partner. It's easy to find somebody you're attracted to. It's easy to find a roommate. It's easy to find somebody you'd trust to care for a child, or to share your finances with. And it's easy to find somebody who feels one of these ways about you.

    But finding them all in the same person? That's kinda hard. That's the advantage of polyamory: you can pick multiple people to check all of those boxes collectively. Nobody has to be the perfect fit.

    I used to think I was naturally monogamous, and I think most of that was really just me feeling like I'd never be able to find more than one person to love me, and I had to cling to a relationship for dear life or else be alone. After the transition restored my sense of self-worth, I realized that lots of people would love me, and the prospect of polyamory seemed less scary.

    COVID has prevented my girlfriend and me from dating anybody this past year, but we're both really excited about it. I think one of the things that made it easier to contemplate is the idea that it's not just one of us dating some other person; it's both of us dating other people, as a single person. I don't feel like a truly independent person anymore; our brains kinda melded together at some point. We're a part of each other.

    @_Nightfall_: Your sister isn't doing anything wrong, no. As long as her husband is okay with it, she's not hurting him, and that's what really matters.

    StummvonBordwehr_Nightfall_
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,521
    edited February 21
    What people do consensually in the bedroom with each other is no one else's damn business. Sure, those that speak up about it have a right to voice their opinion, but that doesn't make it any less aggravating from my standpoint. The over the top reaction you get from people who tend to make a big deal out of this kind of thing is, frankly, as if the people they are judging had asked them to participate in it themselves, which would maybe justify the vitriolic response. But that's never the case. They view even having to THINK about it for a spilt-second as some kind of infringement on their life.

    _Nightfall_StummvonBordwehr
  • _Nightfall__Nightfall_ Member Posts: 458
    @sarevok57
    Impressive. I am not that coherent at 4.00 pm...

    And don’t worry @_Nightfall_ , there are plenty people here, who love you just the way you are. You are perfect the way you are.

    I don’t have much experience with things like that, honestly made me cry. Thank you <3

    I don’t know much about polyamory. My one friend is into that kind of thing but she likes the whips, ropes, cuffs, collars and all of that. Went to a “scene” with her one time, nope, no way, no thank you. I didn’t even stay until it was her turn, so she doesn’t talk about her lifestyle to me anymore. Fine by me, ugh! I don’t have a problem with people doing that sort of thing, from what I understand it is very regulated. Everything is agreed on beforehand and consent given. For me though, gonna give that a hard pass. Lol, as hot as the book was, I could not even finish 50 Shades of Grey. I did not even know my sister was into that sort of thing until a few weeks ago. Until November 18th I hadn’t even spoken to her in about six years when my mom passed away. My one brother and sister really started to call a lot after I lost my boyfriend. I don’t mind that she does that, not ever going to do that myself but it doesn’t break any of my three rules.

    Take responsibility for yourself.
    Don’t do anything to hurt anyone else.
    Give back.

    If you think about it, there is a lot of giving going on there. :)
    Just not me though. I thought that I would be very promiscuous after I transitioned, I mean that was a long time to go without, but it never happened. Then I met my boyfriend and we did a lot of making out but according to one former president, not sexual relations. ;) He had difficulties and because of his heart and vascular problems, he could not take anything for it. He got so frustrated and eventually just gave up completely. He told me often enough at first that he would not mind if I went out and got a buddy, I don’t know, I could never have done that to him. He was the best thing that ever happened to me, I would never have hurt him for anything and certainly not going to risk losing the most amazing thing I could have imagined. I would like to say that you can’t miss what you’ve never had but that would just be a lie, I have no regrets at all. Anyway, tmi I know, sorry.

    I think that what consenting adults do is their business as long as no one is getting hurt and no laws are being broken. My one friend likes nude beaches, again not for me but I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. Now from what I understand there are beaches where whole families can go, have to say that I don’t agree with that at all. Nude children, nope. It makes me nauseous even thinking about it. I have had arguments with my friend over that. Now I had one friend when she went to Key West I think, with her then boyfriend and now husband, went topless and had her front painted with a butterfly. For years and years I thought that would be so much fun but when I went I was too embarrassed to do it. The friend I went with and her mom did. My friend was so mad at her mom because, well you know gravity takes it’s toll and her mom had basset hound faces painted on hers. I thought it was hilarious but my friend was not amused.

    Because of my sister, and my brother’s reaction, I have really been thinking about right and wrong. So if anyone has other scenarios or more insight on these, I would love to hear them.

    semiticgoddessStummvonBordwehr
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 304
    I've known people in "open relationships/marriages", and I've witnessed them to be among the most stable and long lasting. It takes being secure that finding pleasure with another does not take away from what they share together. In some instances it seems to enhance it. Right or wrong are individual assessments, imo, and nobody can make that decision for another.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 304
    My grandchildren interrupted me while writing, had to end my last post abruptly.
    As I was saying...
    The couples (I've known) in successful open relationships are able to separate their sex lives from their personal lives. They also build each other up and bring the best out of the other in unexpected ways. They have a very "natural" seamless style that usually takes time to evolve. I guess there's something to be said for not suppressing natural desires and feeling the need to lie about it.
    As far as the good daughter/ bad daughter thing, it's more an issue of friendship. I know it sounds strange to talk about parents as friends... But once we grow up the relationship changes a bit. Would your parents normally spend time with "swingers"? I'm guessing not. I'm sure they love you both, and have similar warm fuzzy memories of both their little girls. But as adults they have different "comfort" levels. I have two adult daughters, and two different relationships. I can tell you honestly that much of it is "all in your/her head". Mostly it's in theirs, though. If they could stop looking at what people do in their beds and concentrate on what they do in their lives, it might change everything.







    StummvonBordwehr
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,236
    The question of right and wrong comes down to the values that were taught to people when they grow up. Life is easier with a set frame of reference that along your growth path as a person you can explore and adapt to your needs.

    Sadly, many people see their frame of reference as a means to impose judgement upon others while that is not the intent of these boundaries.
    No one has the right to dictate upon others what is right and wrong. My truth is not your truth.

    Only the exact sciences pose a discrete frame of reference that people can fall back to (as in 1+1=2), although even those can be stretched to some extent (e does not actually equal mc2 in all cases).

    Tldr. It's their life for them to live as they see fit, Same how your life is the way you should want to live it, and no one should impose their opinion on you. The only way to check is to ask, inquire and discuss without imposing the values.

    _Nightfall_shabadoosemiticgoddess
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