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Firetooth damage calculation when equipped bolts

MyragMyrag Member Posts: 328
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
Hey all,

Recently I started yet another playthrough and someone suggested that Firetooth does more damage than Tuigan or Gesen even if only using Improved Haste or Critical Strikes on all of them.

While I typically disagree with this opinion and there are plenty of topics suggesting otherwise I have a quick question.

When I equip my lvl 34 archer with Firetooth+5 and bolts+3 the game tells me that my sheet damage is 22-29. Which makes sense becsue

1d8 = ( 1+9 ) / 2 = 4.5 Damage Per Bolt
archer kit +9
proficiency +5
firetooth bonus +5
gauntlets of extraordinary spec +2


making it
1 (min roll) +9+5+5+2 = 22
8 (max roll) +9+5+5+2 = 29

But when I shoot at fire elemental (or any other summon) I get much larger numbers (between 25-36)

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When I do the same test using Tuigan or Gesen I get the same damage as per sheet, but not with firetooth.

If I enable extra combat options this is what I see.

auxninvjfdy5.png

Anyone know what am I missing?

Comments

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,368
    With real ammo, Firetooth+5 deals 1d8+5 plus the ammo's normal damage.
    So right now you have:

    Bolt +3 = 1d8
    archer kit = +9
    proficiency = +5
    firetooth bonus = +1d8+5
    gauntlets of extraordinary spec = +2

    or 2d8+21, for 23 - 37 damage.
    (+2 fire damage)

    The inventory/record screen will only display one dice entry for damage, so only one of the 1d8 get's displayed.

    Gesen has no dice in it's base damage, only a +2.
    Tansheron's does the same thing with it's +1d6 damage.
    Sling of Seeking/Everard each add +1d4+2.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    Incidentally, bolts +2 give you +2 to damage as well as THAC0. As your archer will hit almost anything with a to hit roll of 2, you would be better off equipping those rather than the +3 bolts. That's not necessarily the case with other characters where the extra THAC0 may be more important than the bonus to damage.
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 328
    edited April 2021
    Interesting, never knew this. Thanks guys.

    So with Firetooth + Kuotoan Bolts dealing 2d6 this would be

    2d6 + 1d8 + 21 = 24 to 41 = 32.5 x 6 APR = 195 damage per round (207 with fire), or 227 with GoES (241 with fire)

    And Firetooth with any bolts

    2d8+21 = 23 - 37 = 30 = 30 x 6 APR = 180 damage per round (192 with fire), or 210 with GoES (224 with fire)

    Interesting indeed. So compared to Tuigan at max level.

    1d6 + 17 = 18 to 23 = 20.5 x 10 APR = 205 damage per round

    Gesen

    (1d6 + 17) + 1d8 electricity = 19 to 31 = 25 * 8 APR = 200 damage per round, or 225 with GoES



    Now with critical strikes

    Firetooth + kuotoan bolts

    (2d6 + 1d8 + 21) * 2 = (24 - 41) * 2 = 65 x 6 APR = 390 damage per round (412 with fire), 455 with GoES (469 with fire)

    Firetooth + any bolts

    (1d8 + 1d8 + 21) * 2 = (23 - 37) * 2 = 60 x 6 APR = 360 damage per round (372 with fire), 420 with GoES (434 with fire)

    Tuigan

    (1d6 + 17) * 2 = (18 to 23) * 2 = 41 x 10 APR = 410 damage per round

    Gesen

    (1d6 + 17) * 2 + 1d8 electricity = (18 to 23) * 2 + 1d8 = 37 to 54 = 45.5 * 8 APR = 364 damage per round, or 409.5 with GoES


    With bard song (+4 damage)

    Firetooth + kuotoan bolts

    (2d6 + 1d8 + 21 + 4) * 2 = (28 - 45) * 2 = 73 x 6 APR = 438 damage per round (450 with fire), 511 with GoES (525 with fire)

    Firetooth + any bolts

    (1d8 + 1d8 + 21 + 4) * 2 = (27 - 41) * 2 = 68 x 6 APR = 408 damage per round (420 with fire), 476 with GoES (490 with fire)

    Tuigan

    (1d6 + 17 + 4) * 2 = (22 to 27) * 2 = 49 x 10 APR = 490 damage per round

    Gesen

    (1d6 + 17 + 4) * 2 + 1d8 electricity = (22 to 27) * 2 + 1d8 = 45 to 62 = 53.5 * 8 APR = 428 damage per round, or 481.5 with GoES


    So it would appear that with Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization (GoES) Firetooth is the best weapon for archer. But the more damage bonuses you have in the party the more effective Tuigan becomes, which is expected of high APR weapons and that it multiplies via critical strike.

    With that said, if we care about maximum damage per round then

    Priest of Lathander > Fighter dual will do

    Erinne Sling +5
    Bullets 1d4+5
    Gloves +2
    2x Boon of Lathander +2
    25 Strength +14
    Proficiency +5

    1d4 +33 = 34 to 37

    Since we are using Righteous Magic 1d4 becomes just 4

    4+33 = 37 * 10 APR = 370 Damage per round, 740 with Critical Strikes... absolute beast

    10 APR = ( 1 base, 0.5 APR lvl 7 fighter, 0.5 APR lvl 13 figher, 1 APR granmastery in slings, 1 Boon, 1 boon (stacks) ) * 2 Improved Haste

    And it works with Valhior helmet so you can almost double that.
    Post edited by Myrag on
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,368
    Bolt +2 only deal 1d8 damage in BG2. In BG1 and IWD they deal 1d8+2.

    Only a few arrows/bolts in BG2 deal +X damage: Acid Arrows +1 (+1), Blessed Bolts (+1), Drow Bolts (+1).
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 328
    kjeron wrote: »
    Bolt +2 only deal 1d8 damage in BG2. In BG1 and IWD they deal 1d8+2.

    Only a few arrows/bolts in BG2 deal +X damage: Acid Arrows +1 (+1), Blessed Bolts (+1), Drow Bolts (+1).

    Thanks. Fixed numbers, Grond0 tricked me, but I tested this and you are right. I thought this was one of those bugs where you don't see values :D
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    Of course, the real winner among bolts are the special ammo that comes with the Big Metal Unit. I had Nalia dealing 1d8+5 physical, 1d4+1 magic, and 2 fire (average 15) at 5 APR and -9 THAC0 in the endgame I just played. Or 10 APR with Improved Haste, which was a considerable fraction of the fights due to wish abuse. About 2/3 the baseline damage per round of your archer, with no warrior levels at all.

    The archer, with the same pulse ammo, would do another 16 damage per hit. Applying that same Improved Haste + Critical Strike combo, that's (25.5*2+3.5+2)*10 = 565 damage in a Critical Strike round.
    Also, you can use the Legacy of the Masters gauntlets and pass the extraordinary specialization gauntlets to another party member.
    Scorcher ammo does even more damage (2d12 fire/save for half instead of 1d4+1 magic, hit again a round later), but it also deals your physical damage to anyone in line with it - very hard to use with allies. And you need your mage friend to spend a spell slot on Enchant Weapon if you want to hit most enemies.

    (The scorcher ammo and rod in my party went to the sorcerer, so he wouldn't have to worry about damaging allies. Tearing through stoneskins, yes. Actually hurting them, no. After all, they were all fire immune for the theme.)
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