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Rant

Of course it’s a good thing these games are still being updated and improvements have been made. The game works on modern PC’s and in widescreen, the zooming option is a good feature and obviously bug fixes are great. The original game had plenty of them and also unfinished side quests. But man, Beamdog should really have left it pretty much at that. The “enhancements” of BG1 have taken the life out of the first game by adding and changing things that did not need changing. The artwork, the new videos, the mobile looking UI and the new characters that feel they come straight out of 5th edition, none of these fit the rustic and archaic feel of the AD&D original BG. I know some people will agree and others disagree when i say that Beamdog should not even have changed it to the BG2 engine.

BG2 class kits, character models, spells and spell animations don't fit the mood of BG1 and mechanically makes the first game unbalanced also. Well then one can say “new players won't mind”, well i can bet that most people who became hyped for the EE's in the first place are those who'd played the originals way back and newer players will most likely go straight to Larian and BG3 anyway. It doesn't make sense to try to appeal to modern fantasy fans with an old infinity game that was released in 1998. I think even new players would "get" an experience that's more closer to the original. Currently BG1 EE has some kind of identity crisis and doesn't know what it wants to be.

BG1 isn’t a game about effectiveness and smoothness, it’s all about setting the right mood - and small things like the flashing effect and the scroll that unfolds when you hover over an accessible area on the map “traveling hours 8” and the stonelike UI - matters.

Moreover I don't agree at all with the BG trilogy people who want to have one seamless playthrough. BG1 is a great and special game in it's own right and should have been given the respect it deserved. BG1, BG2 and Throne of Bhaal are all amazing and separate video games in their own right even though the saga connects them. It seems to me that Beamdog were too concerned to leave their own mark on it with the new content and in the process made people like me who cherish the original experience disillusioned.
Rose tinted glasses? nostalgia? sure, and i strongly believe that is the job of the developer to try to reciprocate and preserve that feeling when it comes to enhanced editions of older games as well as remasters that mean alot to a lot of people.

Yours sincerely
Old BG fan

FenrirWolfgangersarevok57BroninMortianna

Comments

  • FenrirWolfgangerFenrirWolfganger Member Posts: 21
    @Maxion87 I liked your comment, and I played BG1 when it first came out, restarting it many many times. I never completed SOA as I couldn't handle the increasingly magical battles, or all the differences in play style, but that's just me.

    I for one am very grateful to Beamdog for bringing out the EE series for the Tablet, my personal circumstances don't allow me to play the GOG version on the PC. I see the differences, and honestly I play the game as old style BG1 but to me the "upgrades" are just a "Oh I see what they did there", I either incorporate them in my playing (Neera's gone and set herself on fire again) or I ignore them ( my Ranger/Cleric can't use a Scimitar anyway). But that was the case with the old game too, I never played with every possible Class and Alignment, and I didn't play each conversation differently (apart from seeing what happened) but I enjoyed knowing I had all the choices and I still do. And I bet the same is true of you. (Hate the new world map though, can't read it or see best routes at all).

    So @Maxion87, I gave you a Like, I see your POV, I bought all three games but won't pick up the new Evil characters and, honestly, I probably won't be competent to complete the series this time either. But I am grateful to Beamdog for what they did, they earned my money.

    sarevok57SkatanStummvonBordwehr
  • BroninBronin Member Posts: 26
    I think the BG Trilogy would be appealing for running mods like SCS for BG1 content.

    FenrirWolfganger
  • Maxion87Maxion87 Member Posts: 6
    @Tresset

    I don't disagree. I'm sure that's the case. I haven't looked into exactly how popular the EE's are or vice versa or any kind of gaming statistics, it's just a personal vent of frustration with the EE's.

    FenrirWolfganger
  • Maxion87Maxion87 Member Posts: 6
    @FenrirWolfganger

    Thanks, i appreciate your perspective. I'm sure you will get through them. A lot of save scumming should do it or just lowering the difficulty. The way BG implements DnD mechanics with real time with paus is quite erratic and unpredictable. Knowledge of how spells work gives you more control over the battle but even then things might get out of hand due to RNG. I'm not even sure how i got through the saga back in the day lol.

    FenrirWolfganger
  • Maxion87Maxion87 Member Posts: 6
    @Bronin

    Could be. Haven't looked into that. Feels more like a niché thing though.

  • VanDerBergVanDerBerg Member Posts: 190
    BG2 class kits, character models, spells and spell animations don't fit the mood of BG1 and mechanically makes the first game unbalanced also.

    I don't think kits in general don't fit the first game well or make it too unbalanced. If anything, for me they increase the RP element by making your characters distinct from generic fighters, clerics or whatever. And most of them have special abilities that scale slowly through the first game (assassins and blackguards with their poison weapon). Sure, there are -some- kits that are overpowered for the first game. Archer being one example, where you can roll an elven archer with high dexterity and get to a single-digit thac0 at level 3, which makes you hit pretty much all the BG enemies almost all the time. Or cleric kits that give you higher-level powers at level 1 without sacrificing anything. But, then again, if you know how to exploit kits in OP way, you likely know the game inside out anyway, you don't have any trouble beating it with vanilla classes and are already playing with one of the difficulty mods. On the other hand, there are kits like kensai (a perfect example of a good kit) which give you a very nice RP class with significant bonuses, but at the expense of significant drawbacks too. And there are also kits that are almost completely pointless in BG1 (beastmaster, wizard slayer). So, it's not really as simple as "kits are overpowered".
    The artwork, the new videos, the mobile looking UI and the new characters that feel they come straight out of 5th edition, none of these fit the rustic and archaic feel of the AD&D original BG

    I personally quite like the new UI and videos, I think they are done really well. I agree with the new characters, I dislike them highly and I don't see them fitting in the game world at all. Which is the reason why (apart from Corwin in SoD, but that's only because there is a lack of good fighters there) I never have any of them in my parties. Good thing is that we can ignore them completely :)
    Moreover I don't agree at all with the BG trilogy people who want to have one seamless playthrough.

    This I completely agree with, which is why I personally don't use BGT:EE mod or (as said above) any of the new Beamdog NPCs.

    FenrirWolfganger
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 804
    VanDerBerg wrote: »
    BG2 class kits, character models, spells and spell animations don't fit the mood of BG1 and mechanically makes the first game unbalanced also.

    I don't think kits in general don't fit the first game well or make it too unbalanced. If anything, for me they increase the RP element by making your characters distinct from generic fighters, clerics or whatever.
    I actually share this opinion but also have a specific reason as to why I have this opinion that doesn't actually apply to the EEs:

    BG:EE rebalances the kits to work within BG1 (sort of - it has a more even ability progression, so you actually have progression in the kit abilities during BG1). I played BGT before the EEs were announced, and kits were massively unbalanced with respect to the BG1 content - either the kit had all its level 8 abilities from level 1 because classic BG2 is an antiquated piece of crap, or the kit had no kit abilities until level 8 while still having all of the kit penalties from level 1 because classic BG2 is an antiquated piece of crap.

    SkatanFenrirWolfganger
  • VanDerBergVanDerBerg Member Posts: 190
    Not to mention that none of the benefits of kits can compare in terms of being overpowered with Edwin and his amulet that grants one or two extra spells per level, or with Viconia and her magic resistance. Both of which were there in the original versions of the game.

    FenrirWolfganger
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 804
    edited May 26
    Viconia's innate magic resistance is nice but it turns out in BG1 it doesn't end up making all that much of a difference. BG1 very rarely devolves into Wizard Tic-Tac-Toe (the few cases where it does are very memorable though). 90% of why I go for her is that she's the best of the three NPC clerics at being a spellcaster (Branwen is too martially focused for my tastes and Yeslick actually ends up being redundant since I tend to play Fighter>Clerics myself)

    Edwin is the bigger problem, balance-wise - he's a Conjurer and the Divination spells in BG1 aren't that great so it's not exactly a penalty (they're better in the Enhanced Edition but you would already have a backup plan for those if you're planning on using Edwin - such as a thief or shaman with 100% detect illusions), plus as you mentioned he gets additional spells per level on top of his specialist bonus... I suppose the main "balance" was that he will not endure Minsc+Dynaheir forever, but that's only applicable to the base version since in EE there are alternatives to Best Ranger and Best Fireballer.

    Not gonna lie, the only kits that I've really used for Gorion's Ward are the Bounty Hunter (needs metagaming), Berserker (for Dual Class shenanigans), and Wild Mage (because Wild Mage). They don't really appeal to me otherwise.

    FenrirWolfganger
  • VanDerBergVanDerBerg Member Posts: 190
    edited May 26
    Edwin is the bigger problem, balance-wise - he's a Conjurer and the Divination spells in BG1 aren't that great so it's not exactly a penalty (they're better in the Enhanced Edition but you would already have a backup plan for those if you're planning on using Edwin - such as a thief or shaman with 100% detect illusions), plus as you mentioned he gets additional spells per level on top of his specialist bonus...

    Yeah, if you play with a party, I would say that the Divination spells aren't just "not great", but they are totally pointless. All the detect invisibility/ilusion/oracle/true sight line of spells are rendered redundant by detect illusion, which is longer lasting and more powerful than any of them. And, besides, druids and clerics can cast it, and they have bajillion more spell slots than mages. Wizard eye and clairvoyance I have never ever used in any of my playthroughs. So, as you mentioned, not only does Edwin belong to the best school of magic (in a party setup), but he has bonus spells in addition to his mage specialisation. In my book, that makes him more overpowered than any berserker or archer, even in BG1.

    Though, on an unrelated note, for soloing with a specialist mage I wouldn't take a conjurer. The inability to dispel illusion would probably mean you are dead meat in pretty much any encounter with a thief. Diviner is actually probably a better choice in that setting.

  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 804
    Wizard Eye and Clairvoyance ironically would be excellent for a Conjurer like Edwin to have since then he could direct his conjurations from afar and not have to go anywhere near a swordsman.

  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 860
    If you're that much of a purist you might aswell play vanilla BG1

    for me the whole appeal of EE is how it uses BG2 assets

    The_Baffled_KingAciferBalrog99
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 804
    Really? What about not having to worry about the installer being incompatible, or about being able to play natively in hi-def widescreen without having to install mods to do so, or the other various behind-the-scenes improvements that the EEs bring?

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,342
    I mean, the originals haven't gone anywhere... You can still play them if you want.

    Like, I get disliking certain individual changes they've made, but you kind of seem to be painting with a pretty broad brush, to the point that it fundamentally doesn't sound like you're interested in an "Enhanced Edition" at all. You just wanna play the originals completely unchanged and maybe mod it to enable widescreen or something.

    Balrog99The_Guilty_PartyZaxaresFenrirWolfganger
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