Fantasy Inspiration for Those Who Love Bards
BelgarathMTH
Member Posts: 5,653
in Off-Topic
Hello, I've been playing Final Fantasy XIV recently, and I discovered how they do bards there. The whole class is the FFXIV equivalent of an Archer prestige class, and you automatically become a bard in that game if you start as an archer. There's a whole chain of quests and cutscenes that teach you the history and culture of bards in the setting, and it rewards you as you go through it.
The whole experience has gotten me very interested in revisiting old games where barding is possible (BG, NWN, and Pillars of Eternity are the only other ones that come immediately to mind), and continuing my bard fantasy over several games.
This thread is a place for bards to assemble and share lore and ideas. I'd like inspiration from famous bards in literature and games, TV and movies. (The only classic bards in history and literature that come to mind immediately are Alan-a-Dale from Robin Hood lore, and of course, "The Bard" from real life, Shakespeare.)
What do you think of FFXIV's idea of linking archery to the bard class, and building on that idea? For me, it opens up a lot of possibilities for my fantasy gaming as a bard. I've researched the pre-historic link between archery and musical bows, and only found a few interesting tidbits, most of which is speculation. Most musicians accept that bows and harps likely arose in pre-history from hunting bows, and the archers' noticing that the released bow string made a musical "twang" or "snap" that could be satisfying to the musical part of human consciousness.
I've found a lot of videos and references to two African musical bow instruments that are still in use today, and I think I remember but still need to research bowed instruments of India, and whether those have any connection to archery.
I'd thank the community here, my old friends, for sharing your knowledge, experience, and ideas. Oghma bless you.
The whole experience has gotten me very interested in revisiting old games where barding is possible (BG, NWN, and Pillars of Eternity are the only other ones that come immediately to mind), and continuing my bard fantasy over several games.
This thread is a place for bards to assemble and share lore and ideas. I'd like inspiration from famous bards in literature and games, TV and movies. (The only classic bards in history and literature that come to mind immediately are Alan-a-Dale from Robin Hood lore, and of course, "The Bard" from real life, Shakespeare.)
What do you think of FFXIV's idea of linking archery to the bard class, and building on that idea? For me, it opens up a lot of possibilities for my fantasy gaming as a bard. I've researched the pre-historic link between archery and musical bows, and only found a few interesting tidbits, most of which is speculation. Most musicians accept that bows and harps likely arose in pre-history from hunting bows, and the archers' noticing that the released bow string made a musical "twang" or "snap" that could be satisfying to the musical part of human consciousness.
I've found a lot of videos and references to two African musical bow instruments that are still in use today, and I think I remember but still need to research bowed instruments of India, and whether those have any connection to archery.
I'd thank the community here, my old friends, for sharing your knowledge, experience, and ideas. Oghma bless you.
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Comments
Reminder: In that game, bard is a specialization of the rogue class, and rogues can learn archery skills just like fighters. She came with points in some archery skills already, so I continued that build and came to the conclusion that it makes perfect sense. I know some games don't allow a bard to participate in combat while singing, but in fact standing in the back row, singing the bard song and shooting the occasional arrow sounds natural (as opposed to singing a bard song in the middle of melee combat.)
I didn't even make the connection between the bow as a weapon and string instruments, but of course to a musician that must be obvious. It makes sense that string instruments might have derived from hunting bows, especially if you look at traditional Asian string instruments that have only two closely positioned strings, like the Korean haegeum.
My first tabletop char back in 2001-2002 was a bard, although back then I just took Drizzt's dual-wielding sabres concept, tuirned it into a high elf, slapped a bow and a lyra on top of it and I played it as a bit whack scout (to my defense: I was 11 year old back then). That system granted bards illusory magic from which I only used "Sunray" anyway, which allowed to enchant an area into a spotlight (which was my palm usually). Then the table fell apart after the second game (but I carried the team through the first one).
Around 2006, a friend introduced me to another system which lacked bards completely. So we houseruled over this character above, and I kept him as a do-first-think-later kind of whacky generalist who just loved being a scout/support and providing the spotlight with "Sunray". His character arc ended at around 2014 though, when after a campaign, he was way too respectful towards a succubus princess, who charmed him after her mission was carried out, brought him along to her demonic plane, and together they fought against her ex who wanted to get back to the girl. During that storyline, he got his mind broken with a corrupted dark personality whom he had to live with a year or so until the two settled on how to go further and he got fell in love with the succubus for real, so yeah, he ended up settling down as a prince of an abyssal plane.
Damn, I loved playing Graion. Ohyeah, that char is my nick (it was from a generator back then but I just stick to it).
I also tried a Toreador in VtM back in 2010 or so, I wanted to play a DJ of a nightclub who was way above his head, but the whole concept didn't felt right. I even reused this concept in that system where Graion was played the most and the guy was universally hated due to his ego and he ended up dying when during his night in the disco a wooden counterpart DJ with equipment appeared at the other end of the venue and after a music duel he just magically blew the mokujin up, ending up killing 30 other people along with himself by the shrapnel. Then I resurrected him as a lich campaign boss and he died a second time. Everyone agreed that his personality should have been used as an enemy boss from the first moment.
My current DnD5e character I'm using to get familiar with that game is also a bard, but my inspiration was to subvert the Horny Bard archetype (in the last few years I started roleplaying subversions in all systems I can for the challenge although I always preferred roleplaying over minmaxing munchkinism in tabletop). She's a ~250 year old sun elf who is bigoted against humans because she thinks all human males just want to get elf trophy wives and father half-elven children for the extended lifespan (the PHB suggesting the flaws of "I secretly believe that everyone is beneath me. I too often hear veiled insults and threats in every word addressed to me, and I'm quick to anger." got me inspired to just roll with it) and I abuse the bardic knowledge of lore to spew (sometimes even intentionally wrong, to play out her ego) 2e stuff from BG/IWD. I still find it really weird after a few sessions that she doesn't need a bow, because 5e cantrips seem enough strong to just fling a Ray of Frost instead of bothering with such.
Amusingly, I don't play bard-classes on computer games. Their generalist nature is usually a handicap and because I only play singleplayer, I am a munchkin in front of the monitor (it doesn't affect anyone else, so who cares).
Long answer: whenever I play a new D&D video game, I play as a Fighter, just so I can understand what's going on. After doing a first run, I play as a Bard. They're different depending on the game. In the Baldur's Gate series, I always go for the Blade kit. In IWD1, I prefer not to go for the Blade kit, because I want access to War Chant of Sith. The Tale of Curran Strongheart is also good to have on some occasions. And, in The Temple of Elemental Evil, Bards get an ability called Countersong. That skill can turn the tides during low-level battles.
In tabletop D&D, Bards are awesome. There's a lot of crazy abilities, like Cutting Words, which can lead to some hilarious moments.
Yes, I'm surprised I didn't think to mention that in my OP, perhaps because I've never used her much in my runs. I'm interested in maybe trying the class in that game some day, although I don't like to duplicate classes in my parties, and I'd have to be the same class as Leliana in addition to using her enough to build plenty of influence to unlock it, unless I find and use the mod that unlocks the prestige classes automatically.
I guess maybe she'd teach me to unlock barding if I just do enough influence building in camp. It might be fun to play around with it. I know the arcane warrior class requires a special side quest that's easy to miss in one of the early mid-game dungeons, so I don't know if the bard class has a similar "secret" quest somewhere that has to be done.
I do remember playing through Leliana's side quests one time up to the point where I got a lot of the stuff from her past,
I think Alistair will unlock Templar for you just with enough influence built, no side questing needed, if I remember correctly.
Same as with Alistair, you can increase her approval rating with gifts and conversation in camp to unlock the dialogue for teaching you the bard specialization. Alternatively there's an expensive tome somewhere to unlock it.
I didnt know I missed a character for a looooooong time.
I love Bards. They've always been my favorite D&D class. The two aspects of the bard that I find most enjoyable are the combination of physical/magical abilities (A la the Red Mage referenced at the top), and the emphasis on Charisma as their primary stat. I enjoy bluffing/deception/diplomacy type RP. I like the idea of being the unofficial "Face of the party" as a character.
5e has really moved them forward, making the class phenomenally interesting (finally a full caster, and get some very interesting/unique party support mechanics).
I will say though that I wasnt particularly enchanted with the Bard in FF XIV myself. Archer with song-support is neat, but the lack of any mechanic in the game to replicate the charisma based RP (understandable, it is an MMO) and the lack of any actual magic made me gravitate to the Red Mage as well.
Multi-tools, they are amazing in groups of 5 or 6. Admittedly, they do not shine as much in parties of 2-4. Pretty darn good for solo runs though.
It not so much their usefulness that bothered me, more that I can't really understand what they are supposed to represent. A vanilla bard, like Garrick, seems basically to be an Alan-a-Dale minstrel type so it makes sense to me that he can pick pockets and inspire with his song but I don't really understand why he should be able to cast spells. I can kind of accept that, being a Jack of all trades, he could learn to use magic items, maybe even learning to use wands and scrolls, but beyond that it just doesn't seem quite right to me.
And if bards are going to cast spells then I would much prefer it if they weren't generalist mages. I think they need their own set of spells tailored to their class, and focusing on music and verse . For example, they could, like the Pied Piper, play music to charm or summon animals.
Finally, if they are not going to have their own set of spells then I think it would have made more sense to give them spells from the priest spell book than the arcane one. I think they should be more about buffing the party than casting offensive magic.
That's a big question to answer. Which franchise and which edition? It changes all the time and even within the same franchise there can be variations.
For D&D:
1e bards basically have their own secret society comprised of colleges and rankings. The roots of the class being druidic in nature also implies the old idea of bards a keepers/mastres of lore. They know everything, and if they don't know something, they have the skills to go find it.
2e Leaned more heavily into bards as performers, but also kept the whole lore thing to a softer degree. Musicians, teachers, scholars. More variety in the types of bards came out here.
3e I believe is basically 2e, but with bards having their own spell list.
4e I dunno.
5e goes back to the college idea of 1e, but instead of it being a hierarchy of each college representing the level of development for a bard, we have colleges that focus on different aspects of the bard toolset. Lore college vs. blade college, etc. In terms of how they play, its a lot like 3e, but with a pseudo sorceror style casting style and are also much stronger.
Although I never really delved too deeply into it myself, I'm actually a big fan of the "Bardic Colleges" idea, that there are different Bardic schools that each focus on different instruments, genres of music, and other associated skills that may have its roots in different cultural origins. For instance, you may have one College that's produces Bards who favor a Skald-style oral storytelling and being in the thick of the action in order to witness and immortalize great deeds, to be retold later before the fires in the Great Lodges of their clansmen. Another might be inspired by the Geisha tradition, and trains its adherents in a more courtly, sophisticated Bardic tradition that blends elegant music, dance and costumery along with more underhanded skills like seduction, poison-use and forgery, for use in the elaborate game of spying in courts and noble estates.