Discussing some NPC mods

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Sandrah Saga For EET.

TheArtisan

Here's how you don't make your NPC take over the story. The scope of the questline you have planned doesn't matter. Just make the PC feel involved. Have people ask them for advice. Let them get their impactful moments as a third party. Make sure other, important NPCs notice them as much as they do the party member. Have the PC be a meaningful element in whatever growth you have planned rather than just be a tagalong. Make it feel as though the PC is contributing more than just being backup.

This is what I have planned for Aura and Drake. Their quests are not minor by any means. But I'm making sure that, however they are resolved, it would be a way in which the absence of the player, for better or worse, would change the outcome drastically. This aspect of writing is what Roxanne completely and utterly fails at.

Yes, I am back. No fanfare or large wall of text this time. Just saying I'm hoping to get better now.

masteraleph

@AionZ , if there is anything we can do to help or make burdens easier, please give a holler.

I'll also point out what Ratatoskr and BCaesar (who I'm not tagging so as not to drag them into this dumpster fire of a post) did with their mod- they got interested in a number of things, and made their megamod in a way that lets the player pick and choose what they want to do- in fact, it's big enough that you can't really play with all the NPCs affected in a single go. They provided multiple optional routes that you can choose to install, or not. They added multiple modifications to significant quests (and even the main quest line), and yet even if installed you don't have to do them. That's the way to do a big, big mod.

lollers

I played a bit with their megamod. Only Clara and the post-failure Anomen relationship, but I saw a lot of the original NPC stuff as it related to Clara and I think its pretty seamless. I'll revisit it some day.

Maurvir

ThacoBell wrote: »

@Maurvir A good npc to take for the trilogy is Sirene. Her personal quest mirrors charname's, just on a smaller scale (no deities). It was pretty interesting to have another party member who also struggled with a disconnect between heritage and their own morality. Her writer did a good job of making her relate to the pc's problems without taking center stage.

Way ahead of you on that one - she has been part of my default install since I discovered her. She really is a fantastic NPC, and now that she has some levels on her, an amazingly good tank with Carsomyr. I only mention Isra because Sirene's quest is, comparatively, fairly uneventful, save in ToB.

However, I really enjoy the way references to her heritage, and her own misgivings and doubts, were handled in that mod. The fact that you can pick her up a day or so after Candlekeep and keep her all the way to the end, including SoD, is a nice perk.

TheArtisan

Speaking as the author, I'm happy with the idea behind Sirene's background but the parts of the story itself experienced in the game is crap. Dialogue and characterization are my forte. Storylines aren't.

I'm just talking about the quest/encounter aspects by the way, I'm still proud of the mods as a whole.

StummvonBordwehr

Thought I should chime in.

I have issues with the mod, and I haven’t even played it.

I don’t mind the possible cringe.

I have played the Sarileth mod many times, and didn’t mind it - actually I found it a semi well written mod centred around a 15 year old girl with no knowledge of the world.

I hold 15 girls in the highest respect in RL, but wouldn’t have them tag along when charname is about to wreck some serious havoc on the gold cost - I only bring them for the tour to WK

Where Tyr decides to grace her with 2 nice tomes, which she passes. She is such a good girl

So I think I can stand the cringe. But my 2 major grievances would be:

1) the heavy railroading:

I am not that much into RPing, but even I have my limits and ToB feels a bit to railroaded for me. In that regard Sandra feels like something I would feel nauseous from, and

2) modders ethics:

I have heard serious allegations from several respectable modders. I could look the other way and have the best of everything; but it would feel wrong and it would be disrespectful. That no one would know if I did, wouldn’t change that.

So that’s why I suspect the heavy bias (or just defamation) on the mods playability.

Ps. I have a question, which stems from point number 2. I would really like to play Secret of Bone Hill again. I have only found it you know where. Should I download it from the site and play it or stear clear?

And I am not asking about the possible bugs in the mod - it was buggy as h… 15 years ago and I can work around should be in the same sorry state.

GraionDilach

StummvonBordwehr wrote: »

I would really like to play Secret of Bone Hill again. I have only found it you know where. Should I download it from the site and play it or stear clear?

And I am not asking about the possible bugs in the mod - it was buggy as h… 15 years ago and I can work around should be in the same sorry state.

Officially, Secret of Bone Hill is an SHS mod - http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1076-the-secret-of-bonehill and http://www.shsforums.net/forum/194-secret-of-bonehill/, however these are quite outdated and apparently received no updates for a long while now. So yeah, there is no good answer here.

Although if you don't install Sandrah, the you-know-whose version works. I had played that version a few months ago but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that it has cut content and it was still bugged and confusing as hell. I ended up grabbing a walkthrough doc, following it to the end to get back to the main area. I presume the sheer scope of rewrite required is why it's in official limbo.

StummvonBordwehr

Hi @GraionDilach

I downloaded it via the SHS forum back in the days - was even a member there for years. So I know the versions.

But I am playing the games on a tablet now, so it’s strictly the EE versions I can use. And I fear that even EET version may be to buggy since EET can’t cover the 3 separate app that hold the EE saga today - but it may be compatible which I fear the old versions aren’t . So I am inclined the take the “safer” of the choices and take the EET/Sandrah version for the ride…

And again: I can live with some bugs, but it’s actually the morale scruples that hold me back - and that we don’t have a 2.6 version for the iOS.

TheArtisan

masteraleph wrote: »

@AionZ , if there is anything we can do to help or make burdens easier, please give a holler.

Off topic but I've been thinking it over and there is something you guys can do, if you're willing. I've been more active on Discord on the Infinity Engine and G3 servers lately talking mostly about mods but also whatever discussion is going on at any moment. I'm enjoying the opportunity to talk casually and it's been helping to bring back some of my lost drive. If anyone has some time to spare or questions to ask - on my writing, on how my mods are going, whatever, just hop into one of those two servers, or my own server (never mind, go find it yourself) and say something.

Moving on.

CamDawg

And links for those aforementioned Discord servers for G3 and the Infinity Engine:

G3 Discord: https://discord.gg/bvFC4mE6
Infinity Engine: https://discord.gg/WyJPU6Wg

jastey

Wait - are we placing advertisement for our sites/stuff into the thread about the Sandrah Saga, *the* synonym for mods with stolen content* and subtle and deceptive advertisment for one's own work?
I'd call this irony of fate.

*Haiass the Wolf is a standalone mod by Auda and Mordenkainen, updated and EET compatibility!! by @Henanigan .

Arvia

Hi people, this was going rather off topic, so I've split it into a new discussion. (at the same time constantly bumping the other thread maybe also gives it more popularity than actually intended).
I'm busy and couldn't come up with something, I'm open to suggestions for a more original thread title

TheArtisan

jastey wrote: »

Wait - are we placing advertisement for our sites/stuff into the thread about the Sandrah Saga, *the* synonym for mods with stolen content* and subtle and deceptive advertisment for one's own work?
I'd call this irony of fate.

*Haiass the Wolf is a standalone mod by Auda and Mordenkainen, updated and EET compatibility!! by @Henanigan .

Are you serious?

Like, I'm sorry I'm sharing links and all, but f*** me for wanting to share a venue to talk to people I guess.

I don't have a single material thing to gain from what I asked, by the way.

jastey

@AionZ I apologize that you took this as criticism? It wasn't any criticism to you/CamDawg/us actually doing it. I just thought it's funny.
That said - no need to swear at me, thank you.

StummvonBordwehr

jastey wrote: »

@AionZ I apologize that you took this as criticism? It wasn't any criticism to you/CamDawg/us actually doing it. I just thought it's funny.
That said - no need to swear at me, thank you.

I will second Jasteys and Arvias sentiments - perhaps the topic is getting the better off us and off topic.

Sorry for my part in derailing the topic

Henanigan

I'd agree that this deserves a topic of its own. It was more like the original thread derailing your posts.

@AionZ, we don't know each other, but I just wanted to say (FWIW) that I very much agree with your comments regarding player agency and NPCs. Actually I was going to reply in that other thread at one point, but thought better of it because I didn't really have anything to add... but now that I've started typing...
IMO it might be a good idea to make a quest out of getting to know an NPC (as in, well, new thread so no names ); but, in order for it to be a 'quest', the player should actually accomplish something in the game: like, gradually helping them get to terms with something in their past. That way, your actions as a player would matter. Just getting the NPC to grant information (that the player knows already, to boot) on a need-to-know basis is not something that I'd call a 'quest'.

Arvia

StummvonBordwehr wrote: »

jastey wrote: »

@AionZ I apologize that you took this as criticism? It wasn't any criticism to you/CamDawg/us actually doing it. I just thought it's funny.
That said - no need to swear at me, thank you.

I will second Jasteys and Arvias sentiments - perhaps the topic is getting the better off us and off topic.

Sorry for my part in derailing the topic

You have nothing to apologize for, splitting the thread was no criticism, the subject just didn't fit there anymore and should have its own space instead.