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Bug or Oversight?

Is anyone else experiencing the tavern music in the Friendly Arm Inn playing back to back in the upper floors? It's supposed to switch to a more mellow and ambient guitar track. If i remember correctly there was even a change in soundtrack from nighttime to daytime. Guitar during night and more orchestral during the day, but the tavern music is only supposed to play at the tavern level.

Comments

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,806
    At least in recent versions - both 2.5 and 2.6 - all floors of the Friendly Arm have the tavern music tav2. Both night and day. I can't speak to older versions of the game.

    The music you're claiming "should" be there sounds more like what's used outside.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,356
    In the original game, the 2nd and 3rd floor were set to default to the outside music.
    Don't know when it was changed, but EE's have had them set to tavern music since at least v1.3.

    If it was an intended change, it is odd that other taverns did not receive the same treatment.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,806
    edited October 2021
    Looking up taverns and inns in current BGEE, comprehensively...

    AR0116 "Helm and Cloak". Upstairs AR0117 and AR0118. Music tav1 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR0165 "Tavern and Inn". Upstairs AR0166. Music tav3 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR0119 "Three Old Kegs". Upstairs AR0120 and AR0121. Music tav2 in the main area and second floor, none on the third floor. (2nd floor is kitchen and dining, 3rd floor is bedrooms)
    AR0103 "Splurging Sturgeon". Upstairs AR0104. Music tav1 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR0114 "Blushing Mermaid". Upstairs bar and games AR0115. Music tav4 on both floors.
    AR0720 "Drakon Tavern". Only one area. Music tav2.
    AR0154 "Keexie Tavern". Upstairs bar and games AR0171. Music tav1 on both floors.
    AR0705 "Elfsong Tavern". Upstairs AR0706. No music on either floor.
    AR0807 "Tavern and Inn". Upstairs bar and games AR0808. Music tav4 on both floors.
    AR1001 "Ulgoth's Beard Inn". Only one area. Music tday1 and tnite - outdoors music.
    AR1109 "Tavern and Inn". Upstairs bar and games AR1110. Music tav1 on both floors.
    AR1113 "Ye Olde Inn". Upstairs bedrooms AR1114. Music tav3 on both floors.
    AR0133 "Low Lantern". Additional floors AR0134 food and drink, AR0135 beds, AR0136 storage. Music cday2 (daytime city music) on all floors.
    AR1215 "Jopalin's Tavern". Only one area. Music tav2.
    AR0105 "Blade and Stars". Upstairs AR0106 and AR0107. Music tav2 on first and second floors, none on third floor. (2nd floor is kitchen and dining, 3rd floor is bedrooms)
    AR1306 "Inn and Tavern". Upstairs bedrooms AR1307. Music tav4 on both floors.
    AR2301 "Friendly Arm Inn". Upstairs bedrooms AR2302 and AR2303. Music tav2 for all three floors of the inn.
    AR2616 "Candlekeep Inn". Upstairs AR2617. Music tav2 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR2629 "Candlekeep Inn". Upstairs AR2630. Music tav3 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR3304 "The Jovial Juggler". Upstairs AR3305 and AR3306. Music tav4 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR3307 "The Burning Wizard". Upstairs AR3308. Music tav2 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR3351 "Feldepost's Inn". Upstairs AR3352. Music tav3 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR3357 "Red Sheaf Inn". Upstairs AR3303. Music tav2 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR4801 "Nashkel Inn". Only one area. Music tav4.
    AR4809 "Belching Dragon Tavern". Only one area. Music tav1.

    I'd say that having outside music upstairs in the original game was a mistake, but the EE applied the wrong correction. For consistency with other inn bedroom areas, the upstairs portion of the Friendly Arm should have no music.

    A few other recommended corrections:
    AR1001 Ulgoth's Beard Inn: should have tavern music.
    AR1110 Ye Olde Inn second floor: should have no music.
    AR1307 Inn and Tavern second floor: should have no music.
    AR0133 through AR0136 Low Lantern should have something different; probably tavern music on the top two floors and none on the bottom two. Daytime outdoor city music at all hours is definitely wrong.

    [Edit - missed one the first time]
    Post edited by jmerry on
    Permidion_Stark
  • Maxion87Maxion87 Member Posts: 23
    jmerry wrote: »
    Looking up taverns and inns in current BGEE, comprehensively...

    AR0116 "Helm and Cloak". Upstairs AR0117 and AR0118. Music tav1 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR0165 "Tavern and Inn". Upstairs AR0166. Music tav3 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR0119 "Three Old Kegs". Upstairs AR0120 and AR0121. Music tav2 in the main area and second floor, none on the third floor. (2nd floor is kitchen and dining, 3rd floor is bedrooms)
    AR0103 "Splurging Sturgeon". Upstairs AR0104. Music tav1 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR0114 "Blushing Mermaid". Upstairs bar and games AR0115. Music tav4 on both floors.
    AR0720 "Drakon Tavern". Only one area. Music tav2.
    AR0154 "Keexie Tavern". Upstairs bar and games AR0171. Music tav1 on both floors.
    AR0705 "Elfsong Tavern". Upstairs AR0706. No music on either floor.
    AR0807 "Tavern and Inn". Upstairs bar and games AR0808. Music tav4 on both floors.
    AR1001 "Ulgoth's Beard Inn". Only one area. Music tday1 and tnite - outdoors music.
    AR1109 "Tavern and Inn". Upstairs bar and games AR1110. Music tav1 on both floors.
    AR1113 "Ye Olde Inn". Upstairs bedrooms AR1114. Music tav3 on both floors.
    AR0133 "Low Lantern". Additional floors AR0134 food and drink, AR0135 beds, AR0136 storage. Music cday2 (daytime city music) on all floors.
    AR1215 "Jopalin's Tavern". Only one area. Music tav2.
    AR0105 "Blade and Stars". Upstairs AR0106 and AR0107. Music tav2 on first and second floors, none on third floor. (2nd floor is kitchen and dining, 3rd floor is bedrooms)
    AR1306 "Inn and Tavern". Upstairs bedrooms AR1307. Music tav4 on both floors.
    AR2301 "Friendly Arm Inn". Upstairs bedrooms AR2302 and AR2303. Music tav2 for all three floors of the inn.
    AR2616 "Candlekeep Inn". Upstairs AR2617. Music tav2 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR2629 "Candlekeep Inn". Upstairs AR2630. Music tav3 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR3304 "The Jovial Juggler". Upstairs AR3305 and AR3306. Music tav4 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR3307 "The Burning Wizard". Upstairs AR3308. Music tav2 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR3351 "Feldepost's Inn". Upstairs AR3352. Music tav3 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR3357 "Red Sheaf Inn". Upstairs AR3303. Music tav2 in the main area, none upstairs.
    AR4801 "Nashkel Inn". Only one area. Music tav4.
    AR4809 "Belching Dragon Tavern". Only one area. Music tav1.

    I'd say that having outside music upstairs in the original game was a mistake, but the EE applied the wrong correction. For consistency with other inn bedroom areas, the upstairs portion of the Friendly Arm should have no music.

    A few other recommended corrections:
    AR1001 Ulgoth's Beard Inn: should have tavern music.
    AR1110 Ye Olde Inn second floor: should have no music.
    AR1307 Inn and Tavern second floor: should have no music.
    AR0133 through AR0136 Low Lantern should have something different; probably tavern music on the top two floors and none on the bottom two. Daytime outdoor city music at all hours is definitely wrong.

    [Edit - missed one the first time]

    Ok thanks.

    Yeah there it says that it's the same in Friendly Armin for all floors but it's indeed an oversight by Beamdog. I just checked the original BG1 on Gog. During the day the upper floors is the same music as outside and during the night it actually changes to this:

    It makes perfect sense because it's supposed to signal that you have retreated from the rowdiness and joviality downstairs.
  • Maxion87Maxion87 Member Posts: 23
    kjeron wrote: »
    In the original game, the 2nd and 3rd floor were set to default to the outside music.
    Don't know when it was changed, but EE's have had them set to tavern music since at least v1.3.

    If it was an intended change, it is odd that other taverns did not receive the same treatment.

    Yeah and it had another tune during the night as well. To me it doesn't make sense to change something that clearly had a purpose so i think it's an oversight.
  • Maxion87Maxion87 Member Posts: 23
    well if it was an intended change then i don't get it and they should fix it.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,806
    Whatever you call it, that day and night music is widely used for outdoor "town" areas - Ulgoth's Beard, the Friendly Arm, and Beregost included. Using it for anything inside is definitely nonstandard, and the standard for inn bedroom areas is to have no music at all.
  • Maxion87Maxion87 Member Posts: 23
    edited October 2021
    jmerry wrote: »
    Whatever you call it, that day and night music is widely used for outdoor "town" areas - Ulgoth's Beard, the Friendly Arm, and Beregost included. Using it for anything inside is definitely nonstandard, and the standard for inn bedroom areas is to have no music at all.

    Well it works really well in the case of the Friendly Arm as i described. As was intended in the original game
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,806
    On actually turning the music on and listening ... "no music" areas don't actually have no music. They instead appear to inherit their music tracks from the parent area - upstairs at Feldepost's Inn actually plays the same music as the Beregost outdoors, for example.

    So, then, my suggested correction for the upper floors of the Friendly Arm would have the same results as what you're thinking of. Setting that music to "None" would result in those outdoor tracks playing. Huh.
  • Maxion87Maxion87 Member Posts: 23
    Okay thanks for the insights. Perhaps it was a mistake in the original as well but i think it works really well to provide a sense of athmosphere and i have become really use to the outside tracks playing. How do i access the files to change that?
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,806
    A tool such as Near Infinity can do that. The area files contain a field to identify which music track is used, which can then be edited.

    Note that any changes made to the area files won't apply retroactively to existing saves; saves contain a copy of all visited areas which would be based on the old version.
  • Maxion87Maxion87 Member Posts: 23
    Ah ok. Instead of opening a new thread i i want to ask yet one more thing which is unrelated;

    Are you aware if mob spawn mechanics has been altered or tampered with in the EE? I feel like there are a lot fewer enemies and that they seem to be in a fixed number that's not correlated to party level.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,806
    edited October 2021
    Most spawns in BGEE still scale with party level; that spot in Farmer Brun's field might have one ankheg pop up if a low-level party walks by, or three if a party near the cap does, or six if you bring an absurdly overleveled party (I once had a run featuring a party of Entar, Belt, Liia, Kelddath, and Imoen).
    The number used for the scaling here is the sum of the levels of all characters in your party. A solo player, at the BGEE cap, will face less than a full party of level 2 characters.

    There are also pre-placed enemies on many maps, which won't respawn and don't scale. The ankheg cave, for example, will always have exactly nine pre-placed ankhegs in it. The only way to get more is to lure some over from up top or to try to rest in there.

    BG2EE, rather than spawning multiples of a single enemy, tends to have spawn groups which always result in the same number of enemies; where a BGEE spawn point might have the creature "ankheg", a BG2EE spawn point might have "rdgob" instead. And that's not a single monster, but instead unpacks to four axe goblins and two bow goblins. Since the total number of monsters that point can spawn is capped, you can't get multiples of that "rdgob" group and always face the same setup.

    Finally, both games have some groups of monsters spawned by area scripts or "trap" scripts. Those follow whatever rules the scripts say, like ghasts popping out of that one red corridor in Durlag's Tower or a group of beholders showing up in the Temple District sewers in SoA chapter 6.

    The balance between the various spawn mechanics also differs between the two games. BGEE makes far more use of spawn points than BG2EE, which instead is dominated by pre-placed enemies and script-based spawning.

    I don't think any of this was actually changed for the EE. But then, I've never played the original games; I'm not speaking from experience here.
    JuliusBorisov
  • Maxion87Maxion87 Member Posts: 23
    Right, i'v noticed that difference too between Bg1 and Bg2. So it seems so be scaling according to party level then. Julius Borisov claimed nothing had been changed from the originals but that was under the Bg2 steam thread for update 2.6 and i didn't get an answer for Bg1. But yes, maybe it's unchanged then. I just have a memory of the spawns being more numerous in the orignal, like in Gnoll Stronghold being wall to wall packed with Gnolls. It was more epic. There is a "Horde" mod that increases the number of spawns and another mod for adjusting the rate, time and likelihood of spawn points being populated but i haven't tested those mods extensively.



  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,931
    Maxion87 wrote: »
    Right, i'v noticed that difference too between Bg1 and Bg2. So it seems so be scaling according to party level then. Julius Borisov claimed nothing had been changed from the originals but that was under the Bg2 steam thread for update 2.6 and i didn't get an answer for Bg1. But yes, maybe it's unchanged then. I just have a memory of the spawns being more numerous in the orignal, like in Gnoll Stronghold being wall to wall packed with Gnolls. It was more epic. There is a "Horde" mod that increases the number of spawns and another mod for adjusting the rate, time and likelihood of spawn points being populated but i haven't tested those mods extensively.



    the spawning for bg2 vanilla is exactly the same as it is for the EEs

    the spawning for bg1 vanilla has been changed quite a bit for the EE

    first, in vanilla, it wasn't based on party size for how many enemies you encountered, just party level, in fact, that change didn't come in until perhaps patch 2.0 or so? im pretty sure if you are playing pre 2.0 it will use the more "vanilla" like "party size" for encounters

    also, some spawns in vanilla BG were bugged a bit ( like the kobold commandos in the firewine ruines ) where in theory there could be infinite of them ( perhaps too many spawn points in one area? ) so the spawning of infinite enemies has be fixed

    other than that, everything else is the same

    ironically if you play a solo run in bg1ee, and have 5 dead team mates then you will actually get encounters as if you had 6 team mates, lol
    JuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehr
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,806
    edited March 4
    An update: I now have a component for this in the latest release of my tweak mod
    (Standardize inn and tavern music)

    The rule that previously applied to 80% of inn/tavern areas - tavern music where people eat, drink and play games, no music (which defaults to music from the "master area" where there are beds) - now applies to all of them.
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