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Can Icewind Dale II:EE be done in the Icewind Dale:EE engine?

VWoodVWood Member Posts: 11
So apparently Icewind Dale II can’t be given an enhanced edition because they lost the source code. However, as we have seen with Baldur’s Gate:EE and Icewind Dale:EE, you can base your game on another by basically pulling its content over and simply using the other games mechanics.
I’m probably oversimplifying here, but can’t a similar thing be done here by modding Icewind Dale II’s content into the Baldur’s Gate:EE engine?

Of course this would mean that we would be playing Icewind Dale II in the 2nd Edition AD&D rule set, but who cares about the debauched power creep that is the 3rd edition? Stick with the clearly defined and metal as heck D20 bound 2nd edition AD&D I say.

Make it like Icewind Dale II:EE 0.5 edition to hold us over until they figure out how to do the proper 3rd Edition EE, then they can give us Icewind Dale II:EE 1.0. They could even put in a neat button to let you switch between rules sets.

I don't know if this is even in the realm of possibility.

EDIT: I understand that the programming of the Enhanced Editions was a significant task and amounts to much more than simply modding the originals.
Post edited by VWood on

Comments

  • XorinaXorina Member Posts: 137
    I'd love this. Or use BGIIEE engine but with 3.5 edn rules?
  • GraionDilachGraionDilach Member Posts: 363
    This would be better as a total conversion mod. IWD2 is a 3e game, and it wouldn't be correct to call a 2e conversion as an "enhanced edition" which would need to rewrite and rebalance everything (it can't be a 1:1 conversion afterall because of the edition changes).

    Additionally, IWDEE isn't just "pulling the content over and reusing the other game's mechanics" either. IWD was an offshoot from BG1 enginewise (with BG2 being another) and many of the IWD additions were recoded-from-scratch in a more softcoded form to the Enhanced Engine to grant proper IWD functionality (if you go through IWD1 opcodes, you see that a fair amount of the ~100 additions it put ontop of BG1 were hardcoded spells/effects). IWDEE is a massive amalgamation and it took a fair amount of effort to get where it is, since it basically pulls the content over then bridges the engine differences with code tailored for it.
  • XorinaXorina Member Posts: 137
    Ahhh...there is one thing that would be useful for all the infinity engine based titles and that is a game speed slider and expansion of the pathfinding nodes available
  • BBQBaconCheeseburgerBBQBaconCheeseburger Member Posts: 2
    @OlvynChuru that is a 2 year old post how long does it take to make a ee version
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,158
    Hi @BBQBaconCheeseburger


    The work is done by community modders and done free of charge in their sparse free time - the consensus in the community is a that it will take the time it needs, and we are all grateful for the ones doing the massive amount of work this comversion takes.

    We all hope for the best and allow me to repeat my appreciation for all the work that has been done - it looks awesome so far. Well done and thanks.
  • BBQBaconCheeseburgerBBQBaconCheeseburger Member Posts: 2
    hello @StummvonBordwehr someone made a link to a 2 year old post 2 years is not current i get ee mod takes time they should know about when it is ready for test play at least just curious sounds like fun to play i would buy it if there was a charge
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,158
    @BBQBaconCheeseburger
    We are much aligned here: we look forward to the result.

    A conversion of IWD2 is quite difficult. The original source code has gone missing, and without it an official EE conversion is impossible. But with the hard work of some forum veterans we may see the closest thing. As with all community mods, its going to be free (I guess), besides the cost of the original game. Its a blessing
  • VWoodVWood Member Posts: 11
    This would be better as a total conversion mod. IWD2 is a 3e game, and it wouldn't be correct to call a 2e conversion as an "enhanced edition" which would need to rewrite and rebalance everything (it can't be a 1:1 conversion afterall because of the edition changes).

    Additionally, IWDEE isn't just "pulling the content over and reusing the other game's mechanics" either. IWD was an offshoot from BG1 enginewise (with BG2 being another) and many of the IWD additions were recoded-from-scratch in a more softcoded form to the Enhanced Engine to grant proper IWD functionality (if you go through IWD1 opcodes, you see that a fair amount of the ~100 additions it put ontop of BG1 were hardcoded spells/effects). IWDEE is a massive amalgamation and it took a fair amount of effort to get where it is, since it basically pulls the content over then bridges the engine differences with code tailored for it.

    That is interesting to know. I do see all the effort and polish that the programmers put into the Enhanced Edition and I surely do not consider it to be simply a mod, and do not mean to diminish their excellent work. In hindsight I do think that my use of the word 'simply' was an inconsiderate choice.
    I have always been interested in how they achieved the Enhanced Editions. Is there any sort of developer's commentary?
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,079
    edited April 2
    To elaborate on that a bit, BGEE and IWDEE weren't created by "pulling their content over and then using other games' mechanics". Rather, Beamdog grafted mods/fixes onto the original BG source code to create BGEE and then did the same thing with the original IWD source code to create IWDEE. No source code, no BGEE/IWDEE.

    An alternative approach would be to import one game's assets into another game's engine, like Tutu did back in the day to give users the BG1-in-BG2 experience. The advantage to that approach, as you rightly point out, is that you don't need the source code to get the job done. But the disadvantage is that there may be various and sundry incompatibilities because you aren't using the exact engine those assets were designed for.

    That was a moderately big deal for BG1-in-BG2. But it's a much bigger deal for IWD2-in-EE, because the Infinity engine "forked" very severely when IWD2's devs shoehorned 3e rules into the original from-the-ground-up-2e source code. You lose all those modifications if you go the IWD2-in-EE route, which means the engine can't correctly understand portions of the original IWD2 assets that depended on the shoehorning to properly function.

    Some of these issues may be fairly small, like a monster that only has a 3rd edition AC in its stat block. But others may be larger, like a dialogue where you have to make a persuasion check to continue the game. Since the EE engine doesn't know what the persuasion skill is and only understands AC using the lower-is-better 2nd edition ruleset, you'd have to manually find and resolve innumerable issues of that type in order to get IWD2-in-EE into a playable and balanced state (which wouldn't be an issue if you'd been able to start with the IWD2 source code).

    I can't imagine how many hours the "IWD2EE team" has put into this but am definitely looking forward to the final product!
  • UnsanityUnsanity Member Posts: 48
    I never played IWD II. I was thinking of getting it from GoG after I finish Heart of Winter. Should I wait just for the EE mod? Or is that still in the far future? Might as well get familiar with the 3rd edition rules?
  • GraionDilachGraionDilach Member Posts: 363
    jsaving wrote: »
    Rather, Beamdog grafted mods/fixes onto the original BG source code to create BGEE and then did the same thing with the original IWD source code to create IWDEE.

    BGEE is based on BG2 and not BG1 and it was the EE which everything was based on. BGEE is a polished Tutu and not a direct BG:ToTSC derivate. This is also why all three games get updates together - the engine code is shared between the three, unlike PSTEE whose changes wasn't merged back to the common branch.
  • fluke13fluke13 Member Posts: 392
    March 2022 and still people asking about iwd2 - that's a good thing - it's prob my favorite game at the moment.

    So for anyone new to the infinity engine and mods - who doesn't know what's currently out there, here's a round up of all the wonderful ways you can be playing iwd2:

    1. The original game from the box - can be played now
    2. The polished original from GOG - can be played now
    3. Another online source, which would then prob require the gibberlings3 official patch - can be played now
    4. An old mod that adds iwd2 into the old bg2 game (not EE) - (Never Ending Journey) - can be played now
    5. The upcoming IWD2EE that enhances the original in the iwd2 engine - can be play tested now (with a request and github account)
    6. iwd-in-eet: wip where creator of eet is putting iwd1 and 2 into eet (could be a few years to ship) - see gibberlings 3 forums
    7. iwd-in-eet: can be play tested now - this version effectively 'cheats' to put iwd1 and 2 into eet and has manual work arounds for incompatibilities - see Arcane coast modding site
    8. iwdeet: wip - a mod/port of 7 above to put iwd2 areas into iwdee, with some enhancements, such as airship travel - likely a year or two before ready for play testing.
  • HillgroveHillgrove Member Posts: 15
    Unless Vlad completed NeJ I don't believe it has the entirety of IWD2 in that mod... then again last time I played that mod is probably 10 years ago, so he might have completed it :)
  • Allanon81Allanon81 Member Posts: 247
    @carlenslal You can manually increase game fps and path nodes in settings file. (Not iOS 😏)
  • ObsidianRazorObsidianRazor Member Posts: 4
    @fluke13 where can we find that iwd2 into iwdee mod that you mention? Even if not ready for playtesting, it sounds like something I'd like to keep an eye on and see the development :D
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