Lose control of a character in asylum (after finding Imoen)

rossbach451

I keep losing control of Viconia after the party reunites with Imoen in the asylum dungeon. Her character just stands there, will not respond to talks, commands, etc. She is effectively out of the party, even though her portrait is still there. I have attached the save file below.

jastey

Could it be a stutter bug (she stops any actions over and over again), or is she no longer selectable? Do you have mods installed?

jmerry

Checking the save, Viconia has a paralysis effect on her. No portrait icon effect, so she's just stuck. Duration: permanent (timing mode 1). Source: SPIN863 HOLD_PARTY, which is cast by one of the cutscenes during the soul-theft sequence. Actually, two of them - one before the dream, and one after. And I should have said that Viconia has two permanent paralysis effects on her.
Then the cutscene that moves you to the dungeon applies SPIN862 NOHOLD_PARTY to players 2 through 6. That's a "Remove Paralysis" effect, which is supposed to remove the effect of HOLD_PARTY. But in this case, it didn't.

So, a Remove Paralysis spell would free her. Unfortunately, Viconia is the only party member capable of casting that cleric-only spell. Unless one of the many mod items you're carrying has that capability, your only option within the game is to kill her and bring her back.

Since this really shouldn't have happened, I've attached a version of the save with the offending effects removed.

Now, for the speculative part - how could this have happened? Well, looking at the spells in question, both HOLD_PARTY and NOHOLD_PARTY have "power" 1; they interact with protections as level 1 spells. They ignore magic resistance and can't be dispelled, but effects such as Spell Deflection, Spell Turning, and Globe of Invulnerability do work on them, if the "caster" isn't also the subject. And what do you know ... NOHOLD_PARTY is "cast" by player 1. If Viconia had some kind of generic spell protection active, that would cause this. Relevant cutscene excerpts (unmodded, but mods are unlikely to touch these cutscenes anyway):

CUT41G:

CutSceneId(Player1)
// Other actions
		ActionOverride(Player2,ForceSpell(Player2,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player3,ForceSpell(Player3,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player4,ForceSpell(Player4,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player5,ForceSpell(Player5,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player6,ForceSpell(Player6,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)

That's the first paralyzation, when Irenicus captures your party.

CUT41I:

CutSceneId(Player1)
// Other actions
		ActionOverride(Player2,ReallyForceSpell(Myself,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player3,ReallyForceSpell(Myself,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player4,ReallyForceSpell(Myself,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player5,ReallyForceSpell(Myself,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player6,ReallyForceSpell(Myself,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)

That's the second paralyzation, when your party returns from the dream.

CUT41J:

CutSceneId(Player1)
// Other actions
		ApplySpell(Player2,NOHOLD_PARTY)  // SPIN862.SPL (No such index)
		ApplySpell(Player3,NOHOLD_PARTY)  // SPIN862.SPL (No such index)
		ApplySpell(Player4,NOHOLD_PARTY)  // SPIN862.SPL (No such index)
		ApplySpell(Player5,NOHOLD_PARTY)  // SPIN862.SPL (No such index)
		ApplySpell(Player6,NOHOLD_PARTY)  // SPIN862.SPL (No such index)

And this is the cutscene that moves your party to the dungeon and frees them. Only it's done differently. Instead of each player "casting" the spell on themself and bypassing any spell defenses, player 1 "casts" the spell on their friends. Which makes this NOHOLD_PARTY blockable by spell defenses. Oops.

Actually, to help with the diagnosis a bit more - what are the equip effects of Viconia's gear, as of this save?

rossbach451

jmerry wrote: »

Checking the save, Viconia has a paralysis effect on her. No portrait icon effect, so she's just stuck. Duration: permanent (timing mode 1). Source: SPIN863 HOLD_PARTY, which is cast by one of the cutscenes during the soul-theft sequence. Actually, two of them - one before the dream, and one after. And I should have said that Viconia has two permanent paralysis effects on her.
Then the cutscene that moves you to the dungeon applies SPIN862 NOHOLD_PARTY to players 2 through 6. That's a "Remove Paralysis" effect, which is supposed to remove the effect of HOLD_PARTY. But in this case, it didn't.

So, a Remove Paralysis spell would free her. Unfortunately, Viconia is the only party member capable of casting that cleric-only spell. Unless one of the many mod items you're carrying has that capability, your only option within the game is to kill her and bring her back.

Since this really shouldn't have happened, I've attached a version of the save with the offending effects removed.

Now, for the speculative part - how could this have happened? Well, looking at the spells in question, both HOLD_PARTY and NOHOLD_PARTY have "power" 1; they interact with protections as level 1 spells. They ignore magic resistance and can't be dispelled, but effects such as Spell Deflection, Spell Turning, and Globe of Invulnerability do work on them, if the "caster" isn't also the subject. And what do you know ... NOHOLD_PARTY is "cast" by player 1. If Viconia had some kind of generic spell protection active, that would cause this. Relevant cutscene excerpts (unmodded, but mods are unlikely to touch these cutscenes anyway):

CUT41G:

CutSceneId(Player1)
// Other actions
		ActionOverride(Player2,ForceSpell(Player2,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player3,ForceSpell(Player3,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player4,ForceSpell(Player4,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player5,ForceSpell(Player5,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player6,ForceSpell(Player6,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)

That's the first paralyzation, when Irenicus captures your party.

CUT41I:

CutSceneId(Player1)
// Other actions
		ActionOverride(Player2,ReallyForceSpell(Myself,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player3,ReallyForceSpell(Myself,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player4,ReallyForceSpell(Myself,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player5,ReallyForceSpell(Myself,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)
		ActionOverride(Player6,ReallyForceSpell(Myself,HOLD_PARTY))  // SPIN863.SPL (No such index)

That's the second paralyzation, when your party returns from the dream.

CUT41J:

CutSceneId(Player1)
// Other actions
		ApplySpell(Player2,NOHOLD_PARTY)  // SPIN862.SPL (No such index)
		ApplySpell(Player3,NOHOLD_PARTY)  // SPIN862.SPL (No such index)
		ApplySpell(Player4,NOHOLD_PARTY)  // SPIN862.SPL (No such index)
		ApplySpell(Player5,NOHOLD_PARTY)  // SPIN862.SPL (No such index)
		ApplySpell(Player6,NOHOLD_PARTY)  // SPIN862.SPL (No such index)

And this is the cutscene that moves your party to the dungeon and frees them. Only it's done differently. Instead of each player "casting" the spell on themself and bypassing any spell defenses, player 1 "casts" the spell on their friends. Which makes this NOHOLD_PARTY blockable by spell defenses. Oops.

Actually, to help with the diagnosis a bit more - what are the equip effects of Viconia's gear, as of this save?

It might have been the shield she is equipped with, it has an immunity to 1st level spells (or its misspelled "1th level spells")

Admittedly, since I am only playing the game for the personnel interactions, I have modded the living shit out of this game. This is always a gamble. Thanks for running down this problem. The shield is from the Abyssal Store mod, called the Shield of the Lords.

jmerry

An immunity to first level spells? Yes, that would do it.

As for why this issue might not have been spotted before? There's a fairly long non-combat section before the party gets immobilized. None of the spell protections in the standard game last more than about an hour, so even if you cast some for the fight with Perth the Adept they'd likely have expired by the time you finish with the dream. That leaves constantly-active spell protections, and there just aren't any of those in the vanilla game.
(Well, OK, the Spell Trap from the Staff of the Magi lasts eight hours. But how often does a party go to the trouble of acquiring that before Spellhold, and then having someone other than the protagonist use it?)

rossbach451

jmerry wrote: »

An immunity to first level spells? Yes, that would do it.

As for why this issue might not have been spotted before? There's a fairly long non-combat section before the party gets immobilized. None of the spell protections in the standard game last more than about an hour, so even if you cast some for the fight with Perth the Adept they'd likely have expired by the time you finish with the dream. That leaves constantly-active spell protections, and there just aren't any of those in the vanilla game.
(Well, OK, the Spell Trap from the Staff of the Magi lasts eight hours. But how often does a party go to the trouble of acquiring that before Spellhold, and then having someone other than the protagonist use it?)

In case I didn't say so, thanks for the effort in figuring this out! I am one of those casuals who know little about the nuts and bolts of the game, and am really appreciative of those who can help out. Thanks again!