Why/how can barbarians be Lawful?

Dharius

Do you think that the Lawful alignments should really be available to Barbarians? I know that this is possible in the original BG2 as well as the EE version, but shouldn't they be Neutral/Chaotic alignments only to be more in line with the P&P rules?

sarevok57

realistically they should only be chaotic in alignment, i've changed it in my game that barbarians can only be chaotic

Woebegone

I've always treated my heroes as unique individuals. 3.5 did a great job of creating unique circumstances in which alignments generally regarded as mandatory could indeed be different with the introduction of the Paladin of Freedom, a Chaotic Good class. The same could be said of a Lawful Good Barbarian. Although rare, they could certainly exist. In the end, play what you wanna play. If you wish to put specific alignment limitations on classes, by all means do so. I choose not to.

Khyron

"Lawful" is not necessarily following the laws of Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter or Waterdeep.

If your clan has a set of rules/laws, if your god has a set of tenets, and you follow them all rigorously then I'd say you are Lawful. You abide by the laws and rules of the society around you.
It would certainly make you Chaotic if you kept following the rules of your Clan if you ventured into one of the mentioned cities.

So it kinda comes down to perspective.. in who's eyes are you lawful or chaotic.

I see no reason why a barbarian can't be lawful.. imagine how a barbarian clan in IWD would survive winter, if they were all chaotic individuals who had absolutely 0 respect for rules and tradition.. it would collapse instantly, but it doesn't because the individuals are in fact not chaotic.

BardsSuck_

I tried barbarian for first time a few time ago, i like it as class, i made him true neutral.

I can see a case to not make him lawful at least, ya.

Zaxares

I've always viewed Law/Chaos somewhat differently than most other players/DMs. Rather than viewing it as "a Lawful character always follows rules and the law", my interpretation is that Law/Chaos instead determines HOW a character likes to approach life and its challenges. Lawful characters prefer an orderly, methodical approach; they are the sort of person who, before assembling a piece of furniture or setting up a new gadget, will read the entire instruction manual cover to cover. In contrast, a Chaotic character will dive right in saying "I'll figure it out as I go along." As such, Lawful characters don't necessarily obey the rules and follow all laws (although they often do because doing so tends to help reinforce the stable, ordered approach to life they like); they follow the rules and laws that help reinforce how they wish to achieve their goals and aims.

This means that, yes, it is entirely possible to have a Lawful Barbarian who strictly follows the traditions and taboos of his tribe, such as believing that only women should be spellcasters, that one must never hunt certain animals on certain days, that debts of vengeance and honor must always be obeyed etc. etc. The only area where it could get sticky is when it comes to the Barbarian's Rage ability, because that kind of frenzied, "throw all caution to the wind" approach to combat is usually at odds with a Lawful warrior's approach of always having plans and stratagems in place.

Dharius

Also, now I look, it seems odd that BG2/BGEE/BG2EE allow for good aligned Assassins too, which also appears to go against 2E P&P rules IIRC.

I don't mind really, because the arguments for "occasional-Lawfully-aligned-Barbarians" above are actually pretty convincing, so I suppose if you stretch your imagination you could have a good aligned Assassin too, altough they'd also be rare I think.

sarevok57

Zaxares wrote: »

I've always viewed Law/Chaos somewhat differently than most other players/DMs. Rather than viewing it as "a Lawful character always follows rules and the law", my interpretation is that Law/Chaos instead determines HOW a character likes to approach life and its challenges. Lawful characters prefer an orderly, methodical approach; they are the sort of person who, before assembling a piece of furniture or setting up a new gadget, will read the entire instruction manual cover to cover. In contrast, a Chaotic character will dive right in saying "I'll figure it out as I go along." As such, Lawful characters don't necessarily obey the rules and follow all laws (although they often do because doing so tends to help reinforce the stable, ordered approach to life they like); they follow the rules and laws that help reinforce how they wish to achieve their goals and aims..

im pretty sure a lot of players look at it this way, because this is how i have always viewed the lawful/chaos axis

shevy123456

The whole DnD system is really not very fine-tuned. A barbarian may be
lawful in his clan but lawless in a city, for instance. And many more
alternative situations. The DnD system seems to just be a simplification
and as such lacks accuracy.

atcDave

Lawful alignment is never defined as a “law and order” thing at all. It’s about a “needs of the many” sort of thing, while chaos is more about the needs of the individual.
But that means it’s quite simple see a barbarian character who is very into the needs of tribe, the needs of his family; and is determined to support those institutions in any circumstance. That also helps with good vs evil being a separate axis entirely.
Now it may be problematic in some cases to explain how a lawful barbarian came to be an adventurer (left the tribe?), could maybe be looking for a new tribe for some reason. But overall barbarian is in no way difficult to view as lawful.