Is Mage/Cleric multi the most powerful class in game ?
BardsSuck_
Member Posts: 133
Someone mentioned this class not long ago for whatever reason, i got to think about it, this class is beyond broken, you have all spells divine and arcane....beyond OP powerful.
This class has to be more op than sorcerer, im not seeing why not, i mean it levels up slow as crap but upon TOB, this has to be incredibly broken op. Chaining things left and right with priest spells also and shit, the combinations are infinite.
Am i wrong ? Discuss
This class has to be more op than sorcerer, im not seeing why not, i mean it levels up slow as crap but upon TOB, this has to be incredibly broken op. Chaining things left and right with priest spells also and shit, the combinations are infinite.
Am i wrong ? Discuss
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My party for that was led by a Dragon Disciple, and used a strategy focused on saturating the field with spells like Fire Storm and Incendiary Cloud. The latter's subject to magic resistance, but when you stack enough of them even drow start dropping like flies.
The party was at a bit over 4 million XP each, with no ToB resources beyond the first level of Watcher's Keep - I went in and picked up the convenience items, but didn't do the statue fight before heading out to Spellhold.
So, how much firepower can I dish out? Specifically, the spell Fire Storm, which ignores MR so it's ideal for dealing with swarms of 68% magic resistant drow warriors.
Dragon Disciple (level 21): Only available through planetar summons; I get one of those for each projected image (using the SCS component that makes HLA spells innate here). The planetar casts three Fire Storms, then wades into melee. I have six level 7 spell slots, because I'm wearing that ring. Total 21 fire storms, including the sorcerer himself summoning the last planetar.
Cleric/Mage (level 17/15): Two level 7 mage slots to use on Project Image, two level 7 cleric slots. Wear the ring for an extra level 7 mage slot, take the extra spell slot HLAs, be a gnome cleric/illusionist, and you have five level 7 mage slots. There's no way to get extra level 7 cleric slots, as you don't have your holy symbol yet and definitely don't have 25 wisdom. So, stretching things as far as possible, that's 12 total fire storms.
So that's nearly twice as many fire storms from the DD. And the choice of spell here is heavily slanted toward the cleric/mage, as it isn't even on the mage spell list. If you add in all the incendiary clouds and Dragon's Breaths ... there's no comparison at all.
The DD, or any sorcerer with appropriate spell choices, is much better at saturating the battlefield with high-level firepower in this sort of extended fight. My strategy would have failed outright if I tried it with a cleric/mage; they would have run out of steam well before the end of that marathon battle, and the party would have been overwhelmed.
I just tend to think a multi or dual that includes any kind of fighter will always be better. For the whole saga for sure. The thing is, the combat system has a slight flaw in that your attacks and spellcasts (or item/potion usage) are on separate turn timers. You won't always be able to max out your attacks due to casting delays/animations, but still, this is the build that will have the most firepower per turn.
Cleric and mage can find ways to add attacks per round that you get as a fighter, at higher levels anyways. But then again, you're also getting fighter HLA's at those levels, so I dunno. Low HP + slow progression also makes BG1 a bit of a slog for cleric/mage.
Kensai 13:
[*] Grandmastery (Longsword) = -3 Thac0, +5 Damage, 2 APR | 2 ranks Single Weapon Style | 1 Rank 2-Handed Weapon Style
[*] -2AC, -4 Thac0, -3 Speed Factor, 4x uses of Kai, +1 APR
[*] Stats: 20str, 20con, 20dex, 20int, 18,wis, 5cha (doable with a 90 roll + playing full saga for books/bonuses + Lum Machine)
[*] Chaotic Good - For 2x Draw Upon Holy Might, 2x Slow Poison, Larloch's Minor Drain, Vampiric Touch
Mage 28:
[*] 5/5/5/5/5/6/6/5/4 Spell Slots (with HLA 6th,7th and 8th level slots)
[*] Planetar (vorpal, truesight, many resists/immunities, great spells, and 3x HEAL, MR, chance for instant casts)
[*] Dragon's Breath (Ignore MR, massive damage)
[*] Improved Alacrity (Spells, Spells and more Spells)
[*] Wish
[*] Black Blade of Disaster, Improved Haste, Simulacrum
[*] PFMW, Spell Immunity, Project Image, Death Spells , Mislead, Sequencers, Contingencies, etc.
[*] 1 rank quarterstaff , dagger, dart then back to quarterstaff followed by 1 more rank in 2-handed weapon style
Gear:
[*] Blackrazor/Black Blade of Disaster
[*] Staff of the Magi/Rod of Smiting (For Golems)/Non-Magic Quarterstaff (For Magic Golems)
[*] Belt of Inertial Barrier
[*] Robe of Vecna
[*] Amulet of Power
[*] Circlet of Netheril
[*] Ring of Gaxx
[*] Ring of Wizardry/Ring of Protection +2
[*] Cloak of Mirroring
[*] Boots of Speed
[*] Gem of Seeing (True Sight 1/Day)
[*] Golem Manual (Juggernaut)
[*] Potion(s)
Totals:
25 Str (draw upon holy might) and/or Blackrazor buff (also called BR Buff)
25 Dex (draw upon holy might)
25 Con (draw upon holy might)
20 Int
18 Wis (This is all you need for best wish chances)
05 Cha
HP: 185 (w/Familiar +Circlet of Netheril)
Spell Slots: 6/6/6/6/7/9/9/8/6
BlackRazor
-5 AC (Unbuffed) / -7 (w/DoHM)
-5 Thac0 (Unbuffed) / -9 (w/DoHM)
21-28dmg (unbuffed) / 27-34 (w blackrazor buff), 19-20 crits
3.5 APR (Unbuffed) / 4 APR (w/BR Buff) / 7 APR (w/Improved Haste)
15% chance to Drain 4 Levels on hit and heal self 20HP
Staff of the Magi
-5 AC (Unbuffed) / -7 (w/DoHM)
-1 Thac0 (Unbuffed) / -5 Thac0 (BR buff/DoHM)
17-22dmg (unbuffed) / 23-28 (BR buff/DoHM)
2.5 APR (Unbuffed) / 5 APR (w/BR Buff) / 7 APR (w/Improved Haste)
Invisibility on Demand, Dispel Magic at Level 30 on hit, 24 Hour duration Spell Trap
Black Blade of Disaster
-5 AC (Unbuffed) / -7 (w/DoHM)
-7 Thac0 (Unbuffed) / -11 Thac0 (BR buff/DoHM)
24-46dmg (unbuffed) / 30-52 (BR buff/DoHM) 19-20 crits
3.5 APR (Unbuffed) / 4 APR (w/BR Buff) / 7 APR (w/Improved Haste)
target struck must save vs death at +4 or be disintegrated, 10% chance on hit to drain 4 levels and heal 20HP
Notes:
[*] Improved Haste lasts 23 rounds, which 161 attacks over 23 rounds (with black razor/black blade of disaster), or 115 attacks over 23 rounds with SotM.
[*] None of this counts any other buffs other than the ones that make it work better.
[*] Tons of other great Longswords and Staves out there, The Answerer +4 reduces targets' MR by 15% and AC by 2 with each hit. Namarra, Adjatha, Angurvadal, etc. Rod of Smiting will easily kill any golems you come across (except magic golems, use non-magic quarterstaff.)
[*] Time Stop is basically a free win against any enemy vulnerable to it. (just strip their defenses first and don't TS when they are PFMW)
[*] Planetar can do whatever you need her to do. She can dmg, tank, heal, buff, and disable all at the same time with her reduced cast speed and 4 APR. Her attack is vorpal and she even dispels on hit (although at a lower level, still works quite frequently), Slap an Improved Haste on her too and you have another nearly unstoppable ally attacking up to 208 times over her 24 round duration.
[*] Kai will let you do max damage with every attack. if used just near the end of a round, then the potential damage you can deal in the next round is up to 364dmg (assuming no crits) and you could even throw an instant cast damage spell in there at the beginning or an instant cast CC spell (even better to guarantee hits).
[*] Being hasted like this in combat makes it really easy to outmaneuver the enemies (most of them anyway).
[*] There more that could be said but I think I made the case for this dual-multi-class combo being the best.
I definitely don't think a Kensai is going to be the easiest, nor feel like the strongest build in BG1. Especially not one that has to specialize in a melee weapon right at the start.
I also don't think a solo mage waiting to level up from one to level 14! is going to feel like the strongest possible choice you could have made in SoA.
Like, just looking at the build you described. And a simple gnome illusionist/fighter or elf fighter/mage would probably be a stronger build for the length of the *saga*. Simple usage of longbow to dominate in BG1. And no downtime due to a dual in BG2.
I don't find squeezing a bit of min-maxing that's only available in ToB to be all that impressive frankly. And I think players make a mistake in getting too carried away with the potential of a level 30+ build. By the time you're that high of a level, you already have access too oodles of gear and a free resting spot in ToB, you don't actually need to min-max. The game is relatively easy for any class at that stage, imo. Dragging a Kensai through BG1? Not a high-powered, fun experience, I say.
you can see some tactics in this thread https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47354/superaerie-power-tactics-for-the-c-m-spoilers that is referred to Aerie, but a gnome Charname would be even better as being kitted gets 1 more spell/level, thing that is very good in the end game as being multi the very high level spells will be limited, one more Planetar, improved alacrity or CC/day is very welcome.
Agreed, there are some builds that are a pain to grind and in the end games are super powerful, others that are easy to play trough all the game, MC is of the latter kind.
I think that also sorcerer is incredibly powerful as well as other classes or builds, probably only the Wild Mage can match the raw arcane power of a sorcerer (it is even better if you know how to avoid bad surges
Isn't it REAL POWER?
IMHO the key to find the power of a MC is in his versatility and viability trough the whole SoA-ToB (I never tried it in BG1 so I can't tell about it), can be the party buffer and healer, can do crazy things mixing his arcane and divine magic into a sequencer, can buff himself for good ranged thac0 and dmg while he casts his spell/round, can be an outstanding tank and very effective mlee damage dealer, somehow is the perfect jack of all the trades that can cover a lot of roles and is really good at them and is a very fun toon to play if you like to experiment different tactics and fight the similar battles with different approaches, sorcerer is more a one trick pony, very good at it, but limited by the set of spells he knows in each run you play.