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How do I powergame a blade?

Which proficiencies are best?
Which spells do profit most from the high level bard?
How do I best use the two spins?
Which hlas are most important?

Comments

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    Proficiency depends on what you like to do. For melee, long swords are genuinely versatile. Since a blade benefits greatly from dual wielding I would also put 2 stars into it because it really duces the penalty of the main hand (which is the one that gets the bonus attacks per round).

    For spells as mêlee some inspiration... mirror image, blur, stone skin, one of the armor spells, improved haste, protection for normal/magical weapons, (minor) globe of invulnerability, improved invisibility (until you get dimension door or mislead, which are sequentially better).

    Use dispel or remove magic since bard levels are generally higher than pure mage levels. Damage spells are often also better if they scale by level.

    For the spins, you have to see what works best. I usually take defensive if I split the party and I have no main warrior with the bard, otherwise I use offensive.

    Use any item foremost. The rest as you think they will help. You cannot really plan HLAs (except for ignoring the less useful ones).
  • YigorYigor Member Posts: 805
    edited September 2023
    I soloed Blade in Black Pits and SoD (Insane and LoB difficulty), putting 3 pips in the dual-wielding. ⚔️

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/87082/solo-blade-on-insane
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/87715/bp1-my-solo-blade-on-lob-difficulty
    Yigor wrote: »
    Useful spells (levels 1-4): Chromatic Orb (=instakill in many cases), Grease (to slow down enemies), Mirror Image, Horror, Web, Skull Trap, Ghost/Spirit Armor, Polymorph Other.

    My basic strategy (level 12) is to launch Web and Horror + 3 Skull Traps and to finish remaining creatures with Chromatic Orb and Polymorph Other. Sometimes there still remain 1-2 wounded creatures and my Blade goes into a melee with Defensive Spin (Offensive Spin is very dangerous on LoB).
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    edited September 2023
    How do I efficientally use Dimension door and Mislead as a blade?
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    What do you think about a party with Blade,Anomen,Nalia and Mazzy?
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    You don't efficiently use Dimension Door, because there's no way to ever gain access to the spell at all.

    In older game versions, Mislead allowed bards to cheat the action economy by having the clone sing while the real bard did other stuff. This is no longer an option in patch 2.6; the clone can't do anything but walk around and act as a decoy. Which doesn't make it a bad spell - a character with a Mislead clone up is invisible, and has invisibility re-applied to them immediately if they do anything that would break invisibility. There are lots of ways to abuse that, though you don't have access to backstabs to really break it.

    The proficiencies ... it doesn't really matter. Well, if you're playing from level 1 you probably want access to both ranged and melee options early. But once you get a few levels under you, you'll have plenty of choice at all times. With no ability to specialize, you'll just pick up whatever strikes your fancy, that someone else in the party doesn't already have dibs on. About the only recommendation is to take dual-wielding before too long, because you can and it's how you get enough attacks per round for your melee ability to matter.

    As for the party questions .. just play something already. There are many, many ways to build a solid party in these games.
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    Can I romance Anomen with an Elf?
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    What do you think about a party with Blade,Anomen,Nalia and Mazzy?
    Does the flail of ages still prevent improvet haste in the later levels?
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    Who is better Anomen or Jaheira?
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    edited September 2023
    sorry, I meant Shadow Door.

    A omen will romance female humans, Half-elf, elf, halfling. Thus quite diverse.
    Jaheira the same but male.

    I personally think Anomen is the more sturdy character as fighter/cleric due to his priest spells. A fighter/druid is nice but misses some combat spells.
    Considering the romance, I like Jaheira more. She is less obnoxious although she can also drone on about Khalid.
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    How is that party:
    CHARNAME Blade
    Jaheira(which weapons would you give her)?
    Mazzy(which weapons to give her)?
    Nalia
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    Please????
  • morpheus562morpheus562 Member Posts: 304
    If the goal is a powergaming party, then I would not recommend the direction you are going. Unmodded, I consider Blade the most overrated kit and it performs poorly compared to its peer classes/kits in regards to both damage output and spell usage.

    Jaheira is fine, and I'd give her scimitars for weapons; however, I'd choose Anomen over her any day.

    Mazzy is fine, but she is only an unkitted fighter that can't dual class. Korgan would be a better option here (Foebane main hand and Crom offhand)

    Nalia is meh. Thief options within the game are mostly mage/thief types which I'm not a fan of. If having to choose between any of the stock NPCs, I'd choose Jan.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    Mazzy already gets proficiency in short sword and short bow. You would need to get at least 6 levels with her to get 2 stars into anything else. Short swords are versatile just as long swords, but I always feel they get to +3 weapons much slower.
    I still think that Mazzy is a fine warrior.

    Jaheira I would use with scimitar and clubs. Anomen would be flails and hammers if you would have gone with him.

    For thieving I would also go with Jan. He has the benefits of being talkative throughout the game and he actually progresses as a thief. If you want high level spells faster then Nalia is fine, but there are more pure mages like Edwin or Neera that have their charm.

    Power gaming is more about which class combination you pick. Generally, a berzerker like Korgan fits better than a pure warrior like Mazzy. And custom npcs would also suit more.

    I noticed that you ask many questions, which is fine, but that gives me the feeling that I should advise against a small party.
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    Which spells should I give a Druid(in this case Jaheira)?
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    lroumen wrote: »
    Mazzy already gets proficiency in short sword and short bow. You would need to get at least 6 levels with her to get 2 stars into anything else. Short swords are versatile just as long swords, but I always feel they get to +3 weapons much slower.
    Mazzy starts with one dot in short swords, at level 8. She can specialize in short swords at level 9, and grand master at level 18. Or she can specialize in another weapon at level 12, and grand master at level 21. For a pure fighter, who gains proficiencies faster than any other kind of character, that's not much of a burden. I generally treat her melee weapon as a free choice.

    As for high-enchantment short swords, you can buy the +4 ToB short sword as soon as you gather the cash for it (a lot of cash). Other than that, there's a +3 as a reward for the thief guild quest, and a vanilla +4 in chapter 6.
    Here's a complete list of all short swords that are anything other than plain +N weapons in BG2EE:
    - Sword of Arvoreen: +2, immune to slow and stun, can slow enemy movement, halflings only, Mazzy starts with it.
    - Entropy: +2, poison, Haer'Dalis only.
    - Chaos Blade: +2, drains enemy DEX, Haer'Dalis only.
    - Kundane: +2, adds 1 APR.
    - Ilbratha: +1, can cast Mirror Image 1/day.
    - Short Sword of Mask: +4, upgrades to +5, chance to entangle on hit, chance of level drain after upgrade.

    It's not a long list. And it's severely lacking in the kind of on-hit abilities that you want in a fighter's weapon. There's not even any elemental damage.
  • ErstarrungErstarrung Member Posts: 51
    jmerry wrote: »
    Here's a complete list of all short swords that are anything other than plain +N weapons in BG2EE: (...)
    Actually, you forgot
    - Arbane's Sword of Agility: +2, immune to Hold Creature and Paralyze, Haste 2/day
    Which is a nice weapon (and you get it early in the game and for free).

    And regarding Mazzy: I think the Short Sword of Mask in the main hand and Kundane in the off-hand is a fine choice, including from a powergaming perspective...
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    I did a search. That definitely would have been on the list ... well, since I was skipping stuff like undroppable monster weapons and the Shakti Figurine, Arbane's must have slipped through the cracks. Yes, that is a nice weapon. Particularly for off-hand utility, since it's just a +2 sword with no on-hit abilities on the attack.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    Sloty1984 wrote: »
    Does the flail of ages still prevent improvet haste in the later levels?
    Only if you upgrade it to +5, keeping it +4 it is slightly less damaging, 1 elemental damage less and less overall elemental damage and -1 regular damage compared to the +5 version, but it retains its no save slowing chance effect, that is the main strength of the weapon and lets you haste. As a +4 weapon is perfectly viable in the end game and one of the strongest weapons in the game if used by someone with many attacks/round as each attack has the 30% chance of slowing the enemy and the effect stacks with itself.
    If you upgrade to +5 AFAIK is still possible to haste the welder, all you have to do is equip an other weapon, get the haste and then equip FoA+5, the toon will be hasted, protected by the free action and the weapon will have more damage compared to the +4 version. It requires some micro managing but you get all the best of the weapon.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    Isn't that what whirlwind is for?
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    lroumen wrote: »
    Isn't that what whirlwind is for?

    If you give the flail to someone that has warrior's HLAs yes, but if a Blade, Anomen or someone that has not access to whirlwind uses the flail the Free Action of the +5 FoA prevents Improved Haste from working (unless the trick of un equipping it is used).
    But also for Warrior types the whirlwind rounds for each rest are limited and you don't have many of them until the toon reaches very high levels while IH lasts many rounds and if the toon has high base APR can be sometimes the way to go as the Warrior can spend more HLAs in Critical Strike and/or Hardiness.
    I see the Whirlwinds more as a backup tool if my Warriors spell buffs are dispelled or if the party is ambushed and can not buff before the fight or as a tool for the ones that use 2Handers as they can not dual weld so their APR is lower, specially if they use a vorpal weapon or a 2Hand Weapon with bonus damage as the Impaler or the Staff of the Ram.

    In this particular topic we are talking about how to powergame a Blade, so the whirlwind is not an option.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    ah wait, my mistake. I mixed up blades and swashbucklers since I have a mod that gives the blade also whirlwind. Then indeed, a non-issue.
    I do want to note that you likely have multiple HLAs before you get FoA+5
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 927
    The problem with blades is they have a hard time keeping up with warriors because of their THAC0. There are some ways to fix this, and what I like to do is start in BG1 with an 18 STR so you can boost it to 19. You hit a lot more this way.

    When you get out of the Underdark, I think the best weapon set up for a blade is Crom Faeyr in the main hand (25 STR *really* boosts that THAC0), and any of the speed weapons in the off hand (Belm, Kundane, SNT if you have UAI).

    Blades are great though with all their defensive magics and they are the best single class tanks for that reason.
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