Evil party formation. Xzar & Monty Vs Neera and someone else in the theif position.

Debaser

Hey guys I have a question....my current and very evil party is this:


01. (PC) Edmund Blackadder - Blackguard #1 (currently going sword and board to tank)

02. Dorn - Blackguard #2 (Acting as an off-tank for DPS and using a composite longbow without any proficiency points due to his being level 1...but it's actually working quite well so far, he might wind up going into crossbows or shortbows)

03. Vicky - Cleric

04. Edwin - Overpowered Conjurer

05. Monty - (Acting as another off-tank AND thief)

06. Xzar - Mage...and intended to be dueled to cleric at level 6.


BUT...then I got thinking: Dorn, Vicky and Edwin will be coming back in BG2. And so will Neera who is Chaotic Neutral. If I ditch Monty and Xzar before they plot to kill me for Neera...and give her the Intelligence Tome, I've got two mages with 18 Int who will carry over into the next game. The two problems I have from there are, I'm going to need a thief since Monty and Xzar are an item. And...I won't be able to dual Xzar into a cleric.

I was originally going to give the Intelligence Tome to Dorn to boost his Int to 11, so in BG2 he wouldn't get crushed by Illithids who love to suck on brains...but having two mages who cross over with 18 int sounds fantastic.
I could get Imoen but I fear she's too good for this party....that leaves me with:


01. Skie, but I would have to get Eldoth first, then grab her...THEN let Eldoth die so I could go get Neera...

02. Safana

03. Sharteel, and then later duel her to a Thief.

04. Or...let Xzar...have an "accident" in battle...and keep Monty.


What would you do? (PS I wanted to make this a poll but I apparently don't have that option.)

Elendar

Kill off Xzar, keep Monty.

Cyricist

Screw that noise. Don't break up the Zhents. Montaron & Xzar are a pair. If you want yourself a thief, take Safana. She may claim to be Chaotic Neutral, but that chick is NASTY. She's Neutral Evil if I've ever seen one.

Alternatively, and this is DEFINITELY my personal vote... take Safana for as long as you have to. Make a bum-rush for Baldur's Gate itself. Then pick up the best NPC in any game, ever.

Tiax, He Who Rules from On High.

Luge

Imoen is actually the best thief you'll find. She has excellent stats and will never leave you. She's also available from the beginning of BG2. You can even dual her to a mage if you like (level 9 is usual).

L.

Debaser

Luge said:

Imoen is actually the best thief you'll find. She has excellent stats and will never leave you. She's also available from the beginning of BG2. You can even dual her to a mage if you like (level 9 is usual).

L.

@Luge

It's true Imoen will never leave, but I worry she'll be constantly complaining...since...I'm positively evil. And kind of a pompous prat in this game. This has been a real fun roll play so far. I even have custom art of Rowen Atkinson as Blackadder for my Avatar. =P

But I do feel Safana and Sharteel are disposable to a certain extent...so Imoen and keeping Monty are seeming like the best choices so far....

Elendar

Luge said:

Imoen is actually the best thief you'll find. She has excellent stats and will never leave you. She's also available from the beginning of BG2. You can even dual her to a mage if you like (level 9 is usual).

L.

But Imoen has good alignment and he wants an evil party...

stygga

She's your sister! Being evil doesn't mean you can't love your family!

Debaser

@stygga you are right...is MY sister...to do with as I please...and she would carry over into the next game too...muahahah!!

Elendar

I thought it was only in BG2 that Imoen would never leave and that she will leave if your reputation gets down to 2 in BG1

Debaser

@Elendar is that true? That would rule her out I'm afraid. Much I LOVE family.

Elendar

Debaser said:

@Elendar is that true? That would rule her out I'm afraid. Much I LOVE family.

Not sure if this is the case for BGEE or not... You could always make a game , get Imoen and go on an innocent killing spree to find out :P

moody_mage

Dual Shar-Teel over to thief. She can be brutal if played correctly.

wissenschaft

Using Dorn for range when he has STR 19. O.o I bet he cries himself to sleep at night. :P

Also, the stat boots from the manuals will only carry over if you give them to yourself.

Koson

You could get Safana, as CN she'd fit without problems into your group, and if you want another healer besides Viconia (since you considered dualing Xzar to cleric), get Faldorn.

Debaser

Hitting a snag with this...Edwin and Neera seem incapable of working together. =/ Anyone figure out how to use them both?

marfig

Debaser said:

@Elendar is that true? That would rule her out I'm afraid. Much I LOVE family.

She will leave you pretty fast in BGEE, I'm afraid. Got her to leave after pestering a commoner in his house in Beregost, to the point of him calling his guards. After the battle she left annoyed because "I had changed".

DinsdalePiranha

decado said:

Dual Shar-Teel over to thief. She can be brutal if played correctly.

Shar-Teel is a goddamn menace. dual at lvl 3, get grandmastery by thief 8, 4x backstab by thief 9... it's sick.

Debaser

@decado and @DinsdalePiranha I think Sharteel might be a good fit. I managed to get Neera and Edwin both by kicking Edwin out for a minute and grabbing Neera... @Elendar if I can't keep Immy happy...I'm thinking Sharteel is an acceptable replacement.

Debaser

@Elendar do you think Imoen would leave the party if my Charisma was 19? Because now that I have the Tome it is. =P

Debaser

@decado and @DinsdalePiranha Sharteel is different spec now with her weapon proficiencies, just picked her up and she's got 1 in dagger, 1 in longsword and 2 in two weapon fighting. So...I don't think you can get her to grand mastery...hrmn. =/

Elendar

Debaser said:

@Elendar do you think Imoen would leave the party if my Charisma was 19? Because now that I have the Tome it is. =P

No idea.. Shar'teel dualed to thief is still a good choice... FYI, there's a cloak in one of the Beregost inn's you can pickpocket (Algernon's Cloak) that gives you another +2 CHA :P

DinsdalePiranha

@Debaser: that's why we have shadowkeeper, to fix... problems like this

btw thanks for the Edwin - Neera info, haven't made it so far into the game yet (dead GPU on release day, fun fun fun), been asking around since whether you can have them in the same group

Debaser

DinsdalePiranha said:

@Debaser: that's why we have shadowkeeper, to fix... problems like this

btw thanks for the Edwin - Neera info, haven't made it so far into the game yet (dead GPU on release day, fun fun fun), been asking around since whether you can have them in the same group

@DinsdalePiranha no problem...I'm just trying out combinations, seeing what's what...I'm still not sure this is overall more effective than using Xzar and Monty, but Neera is new, if my Charisma will keep Immy around then I can literally develop all six slots for BG2 which is nice...I just like thinking tactically. Though I do think Dorn's lack of Constitution makes it impossible for him to be your tank on higher difficulty settings, he's worth investing some points into a ranged weapon and then running in to off-tank with his high strength.

DinsdalePiranha

Debaser said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

@Debaser: that's why we have shadowkeeper, to fix... problems like this

btw thanks for the Edwin - Neera info, haven't made it so far into the game yet (dead GPU on release day, fun fun fun), been asking around since whether you can have them in the same group

@DinsdalePiranha no problem...I'm just trying out combinations, seeing what's what...I'm still not sure this is overall more effective than using Xzar and Monty, but Neera is new, if my Charisma will keep Immy around then I can literally develop all six slots for BG2 which is nice...I just like thinking tactically. Though I do think Dorn's lack of Constitution makes it impossible for him to be your tank on higher difficulty settings, he's worth investing some points into a ranged weapon and then running in to off-tank with his high strength.

Dorn looks kinda weak-ish going by stats alone tbh, but don't worry about constitution too much - low hp is only a problem if it runs out in the middle of combat, otherwise... well, that's why we have healers
I've casually used Shar-Teel as a "tank" for most of a previous game, on insane, dualclassed at 3 to thief, without any problems - despite the fact that she had a nice 60 hp to go with her grandmastery, and enemies generally jumping her, because that what backstabbing one of 'em to death does.

Debaser

@DinsdalePiranha I kinda wish they'd have left Sharteels points alone intead of making her go with dual wielding. As it stands now I still think she's strong but with a huge loss of tHACO...it just kind of makes her not as appealing. Kagain is still just as good as he ever was on paper though.

I found out that even if you kind of "trick" Immy into being with you as an evildoer that if you GAIN rep and disrupt things she will glitch out and leave. (It's not just losing rep that hurts things)

So you can't be straight evil with her around, also Neera at a certain point will freak as you're killing Amnhish soldiers so you have to apoligize to her if she tries to leave to get her back. High Charisma will do the trick but I doubt anything without heavy bonuses would urge her to stick around.

Ultimately I'm back to using Monty and Xzar as per originally planned, so that means Dorn gets the Int Tomb in an effort to make him stronger Vs mind flayers in BG2.

Elendar

Debaser said:

@DinsdalePiranha I kinda wish they'd have left Sharteels points alone intead of making her go with dual wielding. As it stands now I still think she's strong but with a huge loss of tHACO...it just kind of makes her not as appealing. Kagain is still just as good as he ever was on paper though.

I found out that even if you kind of "trick" Immy into being with you as an evildoer that if you GAIN rep and disrupt things she will glitch out and leave. (It's not just losing rep that hurts things)

So you can't be straight evil with her around, also Neera at a certain point will freak as you're killing Amnhish soldiers so you have to apoligize to her if she tries to leave to get her back. High Charisma will do the trick but I doubt anything without heavy bonuses would urge her to stick around.

Ultimately I'm back to using Monty and Xzar as per originally planned, so that means Dorn gets the Int Tomb in an effort to make him stronger Vs mind flayers in BG2.

I've never been able to give NPCs any tomes.... always hog them all for my PC even if I don't really need the stat :P

Debaser

Elendar said:

Debaser said:

@DinsdalePiranha I kinda wish they'd have left Sharteels points alone intead of making her go with dual wielding. As it stands now I still think she's strong but with a huge loss of tHACO...it just kind of makes her not as appealing. Kagain is still just as good as he ever was on paper though.

I found out that even if you kind of "trick" Immy into being with you as an evildoer that if you GAIN rep and disrupt things she will glitch out and leave. (It's not just losing rep that hurts things)

So you can't be straight evil with her around, also Neera at a certain point will freak as you're killing Amnhish soldiers so you have to apoligize to her if she tries to leave to get her back. High Charisma will do the trick but I doubt anything without heavy bonuses would urge her to stick around.

Ultimately I'm back to using Monty and Xzar as per originally planned, so that means Dorn gets the Int Tomb in an effort to make him stronger Vs mind flayers in BG2.

I've never been able to give NPCs any tomes.... always hog them all for my PC even if I don't really need the stat :P

@Elendar Yeah I'm the opposite I like to really buff my party and play on the hardest difficulty settings. =P I'm all for tactical deployment of tomes.

lindz

Imoen does leave. I just got reputation 2 and she left me.

Debaser

lindz said:

Imoen does leave. I just got reputation 2 and she left me.

@Lindz Yeah I know it happened to me too...I went back a few hours to Monty and Xzar...it's looking like they're it.

catfish

And the mad wizard falls!

DrEast

"...saves me the trouble."