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[MISTAKEN] Bucklers do NOT get AC bonus from Sword-and-Shield Style?

ktchongktchong Member Posts: 88
Sword-and-Shield Fighting Style does NOT work with a buckler.

There has been much debates over the years on whether a buckler would count as a shield and receive the AC-vs-Missiles bonus from the sword-and-shield style. Most people thought that a buckler would work as a shield for the sword-and-shield AC bonus. For examples: past discussions on this topic are linked here and here.

I tested it with my Branwen who has 1 proficiency point in Sword-and-Shield. I equipped her with Medium Shield vs. Buckler. The bonus AC vs. Missiles applied when she used the medium shield, but NOT when she used a buckler.

So, bucklers do NOT benefit from any fighting style, at all.

Therefore, it is a complete waste for a pure-class thief to put a proficiency point into the sword-and-shield style. A thief can only use a buckler, (i.e., thieves can't use a small, medium or large shield,) but the thief + buckler is NOT getting any benefit from the sword-and-shield. (Yikes!)

Branwen with 1-pip in Sword-and-Shield and a Medium Shield:

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The same Branwen with 1-pip in Sword-and-Shield and a Buckler:

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Post edited by ktchong on

Comments

  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 631
    Sword and shield style works with bucklers.
    Bucklers don't give AC bonus against piercing and missile, so the 0 bonus on your screen proves that the style works. Without it, you would have a +2 malus. The style just negates the buckler AC malus against missile.
  • ktchongktchong Member Posts: 88
    edited March 12
    Just happened that my Safana has just gained enough XP to level from 7 to 8 and can pick a new proficiency. So I can pick Sword-and-Shield for her to test and see if there is any difference before vs. after.

    Here is Safana at level 7, (with enough XP to go up to Level 8;) let's look at her AC without a buckler.

    7zkr289vr7lr.jpg

    Now, let's equip her with a buckler. She is still at level 7 and does not have any proficiency point in the Sword-and-Shield style.

    ofo9gkqnrs6r.jpg

    So, the Buckler + 1 improves her overall AC by 2, but it does not improve her AC vs. Missiles, (i.e., the little bow-and-arrow icon is -1, which is her AC vs. Missiles.)

    Now, let's raise Safana to level 8, and put her proficiency point into the Sword-and-Shield style. Let's take off her buckler and see what happens... well, her overall AC and AC-vs-Missiles stay the same as level 7.

    rmfff1q5c018.jpg

    Now, let's equip the level-8 Safana with the buckler. She now has the Sword-and-Shield style, which should improves her AC vs. Missiles by -2. So, the new value of the little bow-and-arrow icon should be -3, (like in my previous post: Branwen had Sword-and-Shield and was equipped with a medium shield, which lowered her bow-and-arrow value from 0 to -2.)

    t13vmrbne26d.jpg

    No, no change at all! The AC value and bonuses of Safana with the buckler stays exactly the same. The Sword-and-Shield style does not make any difference at all.

    I know, it sucks. However, I am not sure if it was as intended (i.e., a buckler does not work with Sword-and-Shield) of if was an oversight on Beamdog's part.
  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 631
    edited March 12
    ktchong wrote: »
    I know, it sucks. However, I am not sure if it was as intended (i.e., a buckler does not work with Sword-and-Shield) of if was an oversight on Beamdog's part.
    It works. As I said just above, buckler doesn't give AC against missiles.
    On your screenshot without the style, she have AC 1 against missiles with the buckler equipped, and on your screenshot with the style, she have AC -1 against missiles. (AC against missiles is the icon to the right, not the one you're targeting with your red arrow).
    So, a bucker +1 gives a 2 bonus to global AC, but a 2 malus to missile AC will appear to show that the buckler doesn't protect against missiles.
    Then if you add the sword and shield style, it gives a 2 bonus to AC against missiles, nullifying the previous malus.
    To resume, with a buckler +1 and sword and shield style, you will have the same AC against missiles than without a buckler equipped.
  • ktchongktchong Member Posts: 88
    Thanks, upon close look, I was mistaken!
  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 631
    ktchong wrote: »
    Thanks, upon close look, I was mistaken!
    I'm using Lefreut UI on my install, and I needed to have a closed look on your screen to see the info. SoD UI is good looking but sometime confusing too. 🙂
    I was wondering which portraits pack do you use on your install please?
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 927
    ktchong wrote: »

    So, bucklers do NOT benefit from any fighting style, at all.

    Therefore, it is a complete waste for a pure-class thief to put a proficiency point into the sword-and-shield style. A thief can only use a buckler, (i.e., thieves can't use a small, medium or large shield,) but the thief + buckler is NOT getting any benefit from the sword-and-shield. (Yikes!)

    I mean, I guess it’ll help when you get HLAs and can equip a better shield, but that’s a serious stretch.

    Thanks for figuring this out. Looks like that style is even more of a waste than we thought it was!
  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 631
    Klorox wrote: »
    ktchong wrote: »

    So, bucklers do NOT benefit from any fighting style, at all.

    Therefore, it is a complete waste for a pure-class thief to put a proficiency point into the sword-and-shield style. A thief can only use a buckler, (i.e., thieves can't use a small, medium or large shield,) but the thief + buckler is NOT getting any benefit from the sword-and-shield. (Yikes!)

    Thanks for figuring this out. Looks like that style is even more of a waste than we thought it was!
    Did you read all the topic ? OP info was wrong, bucklers DO benefit from sword and shield style.
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,597
    Trouveur wrote: »
    Klorox wrote: »
    ktchong wrote: »

    So, bucklers do NOT benefit from any fighting style, at all.

    Therefore, it is a complete waste for a pure-class thief to put a proficiency point into the sword-and-shield style. A thief can only use a buckler, (i.e., thieves can't use a small, medium or large shield,) but the thief + buckler is NOT getting any benefit from the sword-and-shield. (Yikes!)

    Thanks for figuring this out. Looks like that style is even more of a waste than we thought it was!
    Did you read all the topic ? OP info was wrong, bucklers DO benefit from sword and shield style.

    Correct. Sword and shield style is rarely good but there are some companions or builds where you might as well. Faldorn, Garrick, dualed Imoen can all benefit from slightly more tankiness. Worth adding that the style drops when wielding a ranged weapon like throwing axes or darts.
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 927
    Trouveur wrote: »
    Klorox wrote: »
    ktchong wrote: »

    So, bucklers do NOT benefit from any fighting style, at all.

    Therefore, it is a complete waste for a pure-class thief to put a proficiency point into the sword-and-shield style. A thief can only use a buckler, (i.e., thieves can't use a small, medium or large shield,) but the thief + buckler is NOT getting any benefit from the sword-and-shield. (Yikes!)

    Thanks for figuring this out. Looks like that style is even more of a waste than we thought it was!
    Did you read all the topic ? OP info was wrong, bucklers DO benefit from sword and shield style.
    Oh dang. I obviously misread it. TY.
  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 631
    DinoDin wrote: »
    Trouveur wrote: »
    Klorox wrote: »
    ktchong wrote: »

    So, bucklers do NOT benefit from any fighting style, at all.

    Therefore, it is a complete waste for a pure-class thief to put a proficiency point into the sword-and-shield style. A thief can only use a buckler, (i.e., thieves can't use a small, medium or large shield,) but the thief + buckler is NOT getting any benefit from the sword-and-shield. (Yikes!)

    Thanks for figuring this out. Looks like that style is even more of a waste than we thought it was!
    Did you read all the topic ? OP info was wrong, bucklers DO benefit from sword and shield style.

    Correct. Sword and shield style is rarely good but there are some companions or builds where you might as well. Faldorn, Garrick, dualed Imoen can all benefit from slightly more tankiness. Worth adding that the style drops when wielding a ranged weapon like throwing axes or darts.
    I like to put points in it for Yeslick, hammers is all he needs anyway.
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,597
    Yeslick, Viconia and Branwen fine examples too, tho they don't use bucklers. Yeah there are several NPCs where it can work, even Jaheira for that matter.
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