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Solo HoF spellcasters against bosses?

Tell me your tricks and exploits! I see @Wisterias has one with Time Stop, Shapechange, and Enchanted Weapon. What else is out there, especially for divine casters against the biggest bosses?

Note: I took a break at Lower Dorn’s and ended up losing my saves from my solo totemic Druid run. I’m currently running a near-max Cleric/Illusionist and thinking ahead to the toughest fights.
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  • YigorYigor Member Posts: 758
    Lucky 1-hit petrification of Yxunomei by the Flail of Mae. 😉
  • YigorYigor Member Posts: 758
    Imho, in the original IWD, only Belhifet could be really problematic (other bosses can be beaten in the straightforward manner, just use summoning extensively) . Otherwise, some fights in TotL might be quite hard too. ⚔️
  • WisteriasWisterias Member Posts: 82
    Aerich wrote: »
    Tell me your tricks and exploits! I see @Wisterias has one with Time Stop, Shapechange, and Enchanted Weapon. What else is out there, especially for divine casters against the biggest bosses?

    Note: I took a break at Lower Dorn’s and ended up losing my saves from my solo totemic Druid run. I’m currently running a near-max Cleric/Illusionist and thinking ahead to the toughest fights.

    Aerial Servants!
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 227
    I thought Aerial Servants only hit with +2. If they can hit B_______, that will simplify things considerably. I do really love the Cleric/Mage exploit/strategy of using Project Image to summon and buff Servants.
  • WisteriasWisterias Member Posts: 82
    Aerich wrote: »
    I thought Aerial Servants only hit with +2. If they can hit B_______, that will simplify things considerably. I do really love the Cleric/Mage exploit/strategy of using Project Image to summon and buff Servants.

    Mmmm, will have to test this...
  • WisteriasWisterias Member Posts: 82
    Aerich wrote: »
    I thought Aerial Servants only hit with +2. If they can hit B_______, that will simplify things considerably. I do really love the Cleric/Mage exploit/strategy of using Project Image to summon and buff Servants.

    Tested. Yes, Aerial Servants can damage B. by themselves, but the hard part is to keep them alive xD
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 227
    For this thread, Yxie doesn’t really count, since pre-summoning for the encounter is possible. On my latest C/Ill run, aerial servants killed her while I was in the other room renewing buffs after being dispelled. Project Image symbols and glyphs are helpful too.
  • YigorYigor Member Posts: 758
    Aerich wrote: »
    For this thread, Yxie doesn’t really count, since pre-summoning for the encounter is possible. On my latest C/Ill run, aerial servants killed her while I was in the other room renewing buffs after being dispelled. Project Image symbols and glyphs are helpful too.

    Who counts? 🤔
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 227
    Ichasaracht, Belhefit, Luremaster. Those are the ones with the magic resistance, setup, and cronies to be bothersome. Even someone like Malavon can’t handle a 30/30 spellcaster.
  • YigorYigor Member Posts: 758
    Personally, I'm more interested in developing various classes/kits than with those cheesy fights with final bosses (usually relying on tricks and exploits instead of regular tactics) . I often restarted new games after reaching the max level in HoF. So, I'm a champion of new starts. LoL 😜
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 227
    I suspect it’s a board full of champion re-starters. I’d be surprised if 5% of beginner parties save the day. That’s partly the reason for this thread, I really want my now-max Cleric/Illusionist to finish it out.
  • YigorYigor Member Posts: 758
    Aerich wrote: »
    I suspect it’s a board full of champion re-starters. I’d be surprised if 5% of beginner parties save the day. That’s partly the reason for this thread, I really want my now-max Cleric/Illusionist to finish it out.

    Show us the way, bro! 😸
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 227
    I’m trying! Speedrunning all undead areas helps to alleviate potential boredom…
  • WisteriasWisterias Member Posts: 82
    edited October 18

    Aerich wrote: »
    I’m trying! Speedrunning all undead areas helps to alleviate potential boredom…

    If you are lvl 30 cleric, you can destroy them with turn undead+Sanctuaty or Invisibility, just walking around.
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 227
    Yes, of course. By speedrunning I mean casting a lvl 1 spell to make myself invulnerable and exploding hundreds of enemies. I thought turning broke invisibility, but I might be mistaken. In any event, I use Sanctuary, because there’s very little else worth casting of cleric lvl 1 spells. Invisibility battles with Mirror Image and Web. Additionally, Invisibility has a shorter casting time if you need escapability.
  • iwdee_fmc_soloiwdee_fmc_solo Member Posts: 60
    Aerich wrote: »
    I suspect it’s a board full of champion re-starters. I’d be surprised if 5% of beginner parties save the day. That’s partly the reason for this thread, I really want my now-max Cleric/Illusionist to finish it out.

    To be fair, there's only a handful of classes that can reliably PLAY the game on a solo HoF EL1 run. (EL = Experience Level)

    Honestly, 5% is a pretty high success rate for a global metric that accounts for everyone on an internet message board playing a game mode that you will likely lose if you make a single mistake, and almost definitely if it's a serious one.

    If you leave the double quest XP on then there's a riskless 18,160 XP you can get in Easthaven from Jed + Jhonen (Good) + Grisella. After that you have to kill Apsel's Wolf (reliable to do with kiting and abilities for most classes), and you can get another 4840 XP.

    At this point, you have 23040 XP. Solo classes will be either EL5 or EL6. Multi-classes will all be either 4/5 or 4/4. F/M/T's and F/M/C's will be 3/3/4.

    In order to advance further at this point you have two options:
    (1) Kill the Goblins across the south bridge out of town
    (2) Run past them, and east into the Wolf Valley

    The only classes that can do (1) with effectively no risk are the Cleric, as at EL5 you have access to Animate Dead, a Cleric SL3 (SL = Spell Level) spell, the Shaman, and the Totemic Druid as they have Summon Spirit Animal. Every other class will need to implement a "one-by-one" kiting strategy. It is not always possible to implement this strategy reliably and practically. Fortunately, it is here for most classes as Easthaven provides ample space and terrain to evade enemies and squeeze off ranged attacks, or spells.

    (2) is an extremely poor strategy to implement in my view, although I have not conducted the routing analysis yet to say definitively. It is essentially a defeatist one. If you can't handle eight goblins then how are you going to handle three Wolves, a cave full of orcs, or a pass of goblins? You aren't, and so what this strategy implies for the route is that you're going to be running away and living off quest XP until you can get to a place where you're strong enough to go back and clear them.

    Okay, so let's say every class in the game is able to accomplish (1) in a reliable, and practical manner. That means they leave Easthaven east to the Wolf Valley with 42040 XP. Let's be clear that kiting the Wolves is NOT possible, and in my view fighting them without summons is not reliable or practical. The best I've managed to do is catching one with Entangle as a min-maxed Archer, and killing it before it escaped. I haven't run the numbers to see how likely this was but it only took a couple of tries.

    02owj44768r6.png

    However, I could not get past the other two because they get pulled at the same time.

    z5nys1tlkdnx.png

    I'll accept that if you can pull them one-by-one, perhaps you can get fortunate enough to manage to kill them with some classes which have access to crowd control (CC). What's the point? The point is that only summoning classes have the tools to clear the Orc Cave. A full clear of Orc Cave nets you ~100k XP, and a magic item going into Goblin Pass. Not full clearing Orc Cave at this time implies that you don't have the ability to handle the enemies of HoF, and it's going to be a long road getting there.

    Anyone rolling one of these classes, and there many, is going to be facing and unreliable, and impractical playthrough.
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 227
    ?? This thread is for HoF spellcasters against bosses. By the time they get to that point, they’ve gone through the starting pain. Their issue against bosses if they have no warrior class is lesser ApR and Thaco, and even for those casters that can use spells for a reasonable facsimile (IH, Tensers, Holy Power, DUHM), they may lack the buffing time.
  • YigorYigor Member Posts: 758
    edited October 27
    Aerich wrote: »
    ?? This thread is for HoF spellcasters against bosses. By the time they get to that point, they’ve gone through the starting pain. Their issue against bosses if they have no warrior class is lesser ApR and Thaco, and even for those casters that can use spells for a reasonable facsimile (IH, Tensers, Holy Power, DUHM), they may lack the buffing time.

    I'm far away from bosses in my current games, except for Berserker/Cleric of level 29/30 just before the fight with Belhifet. However, he's not ready for that fight (I wanted to go to HoW, but missed the last opportunity). Almost no healing potions, no bullets+3. I tried several times with a hit-and-run tactics, wounding Belhifet, but was unable to win that fight. 😼

    I also need some additional ideas for divine spellcasters. 🤔
  • YigorYigor Member Posts: 758
    I recall that for Arcane spellcasters @Wisterias suggested an awesome "Timestop + Enchanted Weapon + Shapechange:Mindflayer" tactics, killing Belhifet almost instantly (in 5 hits) by brain sucking LoL! 😉
  • WisteriasWisterias Member Posts: 82
    edited October 27

    The only classes that can do (1) with effectively no risk are the Cleric, as at EL5 you have access to Animate Dead, a Cleric SL3 (SL = Spell Level) spell, the Shaman, and the Totemic Druid as they have Summon Spirit Animal. Every other class will need to implement a "one-by-one" kiting strategy. It is not always possible to implement this strategy reliably and practically. Fortunately, it is here for most classes as Easthaven provides ample space and terrain to evade enemies and squeeze off ranged attacks, or spells.

    A mage, sorc, with Find familiar (LEGAL EVIL) imp, polymorphed into a mustard jelly... it can tank normal wapons, so it's perfect for the start.
  • WisteriasWisterias Member Posts: 82
    Aerich wrote: »
    ?? This thread is for HoF spellcasters against bosses. By the time they get to that point, they’ve gone through the starting pain. Their issue against bosses if they have no warrior class is lesser ApR and Thaco, and even for those casters that can use spells for a reasonable facsimile (IH, Tensers, Holy Power, DUHM), they may lack the buffing time.

    Normally in IWD:EE you can always pre-buff everything before bosses with arcane casters, then cast Spell Inmunity: Abjuration to not get dispelled. Contingencies or Chain contingencies too.

    Divine casters are other world, casting times are long... but you can always summon something to distract the enemies, better from some item like that chess piece ''Black night'' or something. It will give some time to cast your buffs while you move the 'decoy' at least...
  • iwdee_fmc_soloiwdee_fmc_solo Member Posts: 60
    Wisterias wrote: »
    A mage, sorc, with Find familiar (LEGAL EVIL) imp, polymorphed into a mustard jelly... it can tank normal wapons, so it's perfect for the start.

    I didn't think of that. That's a brilliant idea!

    Sounds like Mages have a reliable early game, but it's going to be boring as hell, and arguably impractical, because it takes a long time for a single Mustard Jelly to full-clear the HoF Prologue, and that's a lot of opportunities for enemies in cramped spaces like Wolf Valley or Kuldahar Pass to get onto the PC. Not saying it's necessarily impractical, but something to consider before sinking a half-dozen hours into watching a Mustard Jelly march through Orc Cave.

    Kuldahar Pass is also still a question mark due to the number of enemies, but I suppose you can stay way back while your jelly goes forth, and clears the way to Kuldahar. Since you've already got EL9 by that point, you don't really need the XP so you want to minimize risk, and get to Kuldahar ASAP.

    Still, it's an extremely time-consuming method, and one mistake in positioning or a cluster of archers scoping onto your PC, and those hours in Easthaven are wasted. Lastly, even if you get to HoW as a Mage, where's the gold for your spellbook? Implies to me that you've got to be a Thief multi, and do some stealin' (if you can). I don't know off the top of my head what shops can be stolen from in IWD:EE so that's something to learn.
    Aerich wrote: »
    ?? This thread is for HoF spellcasters against bosses. By the time they get to that point, they’ve gone through the starting pain. Their issue against bosses if they have no warrior class is lesser ApR and Thaco, and even for those casters that can use spells for a reasonable facsimile (IH, Tensers, Holy Power, DUHM), they may lack the buffing time.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the thread with an apparent non sequitur.

    Afaik you can Ultra-buff before every boss. Really fun to do this in Icarasarcht's lair as an F/M/C post-ToTL because you just run down the Sahuagin. The biggest dangers in the run IF you are going to ToTL are easily:

    (1) Crieck of Bane (Dispel Magic + High Level Party + Before Spell Immunity)
    (2) Luremaster (Ruby Ray)

    Otherwise, the biggest dangers are naturally "anyone with Dispel Magic" because you don't have protection from it, and enemies on HoF probably have the caster level to get you with it. This is why I'd argue that the most consistent route is:

    Prologue (Full Clear / EL9 Clear) -> HoW (Gloomfrost Clear) -> ToTL -> HoW -> Chapter 1 -> Rest of Game

    Dunno if that seems obvious, I know it might be better to clear up to Yxunomei first, and that there might be some nuance to how you play things after getting Hjollder off the Burial Isle.

    I guess you could also just say "nah, I don't want to sink all that time into Luremaster, let me just quaff an Invis potion if I get Dispelled, and I'll rebuff" but I think that approach risks getting destroyed before you can. Also Invis is not the same thing as being completely protected from everything, for example, the Djinni in Crieck's fight can still hurt you with Whirlwind.
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 227
    Bear in mind the Imp familiar is not some “I Win” button. The Polymorph Self duration is an hour, iirc, and the jelly basically can’t hit anything. A F/M or F/M/T might get some kills, but the character might struggle to kill a big battle group in that time, and should try to ensure there’s space for the imp to cut and run if the duration runs out. It won’t tank all the way through the Pass in one go. I also think the imp’s regeneration is bugged, so familiar healing could be a problem.
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 227
    I would go back to the main game after the Gloomfrost clear. Degree of difficulty in TotL seems harder, and a character that needs arcane scrolls can and should build out their book before tackling the toughest expansion.

    I believe Dispel Magic always works and there is no comparative caster level check as in the BG version. So, the prudent solo caster takes steps to avoid being targeted with dispel.
  • iwdee_fmc_soloiwdee_fmc_solo Member Posts: 60
    edited October 28
    Aerich wrote: »
    Bear in mind the Imp familiar is not some “I Win” button. The Polymorph Self duration is an hour, iirc, and the jelly basically can’t hit anything. A F/M or F/M/T might get some kills, but the character might struggle to kill a big battle group in that time, and should try to ensure there’s space for the imp to cut and run if the duration runs out. It won’t tank all the way through the Pass in one go. I also think the imp’s regeneration is bugged, so familiar healing could be a problem.

    Welp, nevermind that :lol: It's a clever idea, and sure it's reliable, but it will never work practically for no-reload.

    Way too much time, and why not just play a Cleric/Mage? Literally no reason when there's bushels of XP growing on HoF trees for those who can summon zombies to pick them.
    Aerich wrote: »
    I would go back to the main game after the Gloomfrost clear. Degree of difficulty in TotL seems harder, and a character that needs arcane scrolls can and should build out their book before tackling the toughest expansion.

    I believe Dispel Magic always works and there is no comparative caster level check as in the BG version. So, the prudent solo caster takes steps to avoid being targeted with dispel.

    Even more reason for Spell Immunity. Granted, I'm approaching this from a no-reload perspective. You can always bang your head on a boss enough times to not be dispelled, but for a no-reload attempt I'd personally want the consistency :smile:
  • iwdee_fmc_soloiwdee_fmc_solo Member Posts: 60
    Aerich wrote: »
    Bear in mind the Imp familiar is not some “I Win” button. The Polymorph Self duration is an hour, iirc, and the jelly basically can’t hit anything. A F/M or F/M/T might get some kills, but the character might struggle to kill a big battle group in that time, and should try to ensure there’s space for the imp to cut and run if the duration runs out. It won’t tank all the way through the Pass in one go. I also think the imp’s regeneration is bugged, so familiar healing could be a problem.

    Well, nevermind that then :lol: Sure, it's reliable, but for a no-reload run it's just not practical

    Takes way too much time, and why not just play a Cleric / Mage instead when there's bushels of XP growing on HoF trees for those who can summon zombies to pick them.
    Aerich wrote: »
    I would go back to the main game after the Gloomfrost clear. Degree of difficulty in TotL seems harder, and a character that needs arcane scrolls can and should build out their book before tackling the toughest expansion.

    I believe Dispel Magic always works and there is no comparative caster level check as in the BG version. So, the prudent solo caster takes steps to avoid being targeted with dispel.

    In fairness, ToTL has a lot of the best spells, and crucially, Spell Immunity.

    Granted, I'm approaching this from a no-reload perspective where the consistency is needed. In a reloaded run you can always just try again :sunglasses: (without having to replay everything).
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 227
    Spell Immunity isn’t an absolute necessity except maybe in a couple TotL areas and boss battles. Summons and clear spaces to retreat are the keys to handling encounters where there’s a risk of dispelling. My druid wandered through basically the whole main game without being dispelled, and so has my Cl/Ill. Just withdraw, rebuff, and re-engage if it happens in an otherwise generic fight.
  • YigorYigor Member Posts: 758
    Wisterias wrote: »
    A mage, sorc, with Find familiar (LEGAL EVIL) imp, polymorphed into a mustard jelly... it can tank normal wapons, so it's perfect for the start.

    I also used that Imp/Mustard Jelly trick, but in BG1 😉 :

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/87774/little-survival-guide-for-a-solo-vanilla-level-1-mage-on-lob-difficulty

  • WisteriasWisterias Member Posts: 82
    edited October 28
    Wisterias wrote: »
    A mage, sorc, with Find familiar (LEGAL EVIL) imp, polymorphed into a mustard jelly... it can tank normal wapons, so it's perfect for the start.

    I didn't think of that. That's a brilliant idea!

    Sounds like Mages have a reliable early game, but it's going to be boring as hell, and arguably impractical, because it takes a long time for a single Mustard Jelly to full-clear the HoF Prologue, and that's a lot of opportunities for enemies in cramped spaces like Wolf Valley or Kuldahar Pass to get onto the PC...

    You can overlap Webs, cast Chromatic orbs, and most of enemies are disabled for you to kill them with some sling shots and some spells; you'r familiar is inmune to Web. If you are a dragon disciple, you can use the breath weapon; the mustard jelly can become a Polar Bear, it hits hard and fast (with haste) while mobs are disabled.

    Not to mention, escape options with invisibility, etc. are there.

    If you feel the need of getting some more levels to have better spells to continue, you can farm some orcs in the cave, it's pretty safe.

    Ofc it's not something easy, but HOF is not easy for no one xD And sorc will shine in future areas where other chars will have a hard time.

    Edit: this all is only doable with sorc because mages don't have acces to scrolls... Sorcs are so great xD
    Post edited by Wisterias on
  • WisteriasWisterias Member Posts: 82
    Yigor wrote: »
    Wisterias wrote: »
    A mage, sorc, with Find familiar (LEGAL EVIL) imp, polymorphed into a mustard jelly... it can tank normal wapons, so it's perfect for the start.

    I also used that Imp/Mustard Jelly trick, but in BG1 😉 :

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/87774/little-survival-guide-for-a-solo-vanilla-level-1-mage-on-lob-difficulty

    The only bad thing is that I hate Lawful evil alignment... My fav is Chaotic Neutral always :*
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