LoL that Therik, supposed to be tough, he was quickly destroyed by my Ogres. I didn't attack him at all, afraid of possible petrification (from my side). 😼 Therik has a nice transfer potion, giving INT+1, but my paladin doesn't need it.
Ignoring the fact that you are reloading, you should realize that the route that you're using wouldn't have to worry too much about Therik, since you made the decision to farm Kuldahar Pass at a chokepoint for the XP to reach HoW instead of the skellies in his tomb.
If you were smart, and decided to use The Three White Doves instead of spending your money from raiding the BI on an expensive +3 flail with what amounts to a downside, and a belt that is of questionable utility since you can just use DUHM to rest-heal and should be at EL16 by this point to cast AD, then you'd probably be able to melee him as well.
Ignoring the fact that you are reloading, you should realize that the route that you're using wouldn't have to worry too much about Therik, since you made the decision to farm Kuldahar Pass at a chokepoint for the XP to reach HoW instead of the skellies in his tomb.
If you were smart, and decided to use The Three White Doves instead of spending your money from raiding the BI on an expensive +3 flail with what amounts to a downside, and a belt that is of questionable utility since you can just use DUHM to rest-heal and should be at EL16 by this point to cast AD, then you'd probably be able to melee him as well.
Phew! I'm not intelligent, okay. But my gameplay works anyway. 😎
N.B. My reloads were rather "technical" (in order to save time while resting in hostile areas) , I could easily avoid them, if neccesary.
Btw, not sure that Three White Doves mace is better than Flail of Mae, since the next big enemy, Yxi, can be just petrified with my weapon! 😉
She's an outer-planar creature, you goober. You'll do double damage with TWD, and have the same chance of one-shotting her (while keeping the opportunity to get her drops).
Phew! I'm not intelligent, okay. But my gameplay works anyway. 😎
N.B. My reloads were rather "technical" (in order to save time while resting in hostile areas) , I could easily avoid them, if neccesary.
You're reloading man, pretty much anything "works" in a reload run. Reloading until you get a safe rest in a hostile area is not a valid strategy for a no-reload run. For example, anyone can raid the BI by picking somewhere in the Barrows where they're alone, and resting until they get Sanctuary back.
Without it you would need to figure out how to get back to Edion's tower if you wanted to get Sanctuary back, and use your limited number of invis pots otherwise.
@iwdee_fmc_solo Confess that U are unable to solo Undead Hunter correctly and just expressed the jealousy in your last post! 😸
This is just sillly Your route relies on clearing Kuldahar Pass by holding a chokepoint. You're stronger against undead so it makes more sense to go straight to the VoS where you can hold a chokepoint against enemies you have bonuses against, and clear a tomb so that you don't have to go back to Kuldahar to rest.
While some parts of Yigor’s strategy may be too high risk for a no-reload run, I think it’s quite clever. The thing about goblins is that their damage (non-critical) doesn’t go over 8. Skeletons can exceed that, and may also have better Thac0. It’s perfectly legitimate in a solo HoF game to play against lower risk enemies. It’s not even farming, it’s enemy selection.
I’ve often thought Flail of Mae should get more credit. It’s a great HoF weapon. As I recall, it’s also much cheaper than the Three White Doves. It’s a better weapon for TFG and most of DE than TWD. TWD will also lose some relevance once the Pally can destroy undead through turning.
And as for the ogre belt, it’s the best available before DE and orrick’s inventory update. The ogres are useful x1/day, and the minor regen is a great help. That saves spells like DUHM for combat.
I’ve often thought Flail of Mae should get more credit. It’s a great HoF weapon. As I recall, it’s also much cheaper than the Three White Doves. It’s a better weapon for TFG and most of DE than TWD. TWD will also lose some relevance once the Pally can destroy undead through turning.
Right, TWD is surely a nice weapon, but more expensive. I used it a lot. Contrary to its description, it never kills (not heavily wounded) powerful undead and extraplanar creatures in 1 shot! Otherwise, it would be too nifty vs Yxi, Belhifet etc. ⚠️
While some parts of Yigor’s strategy may be too high risk for a no-reload run, I think it’s quite clever. The thing about goblins is that their damage (non-critical) doesn’t go over 8. Skeletons can exceed that, and may also have better Thac0. It’s perfectly legitimate in a solo HoF game to play against lower risk enemies. It’s not even farming, it’s enemy selection.
This is only true against archers who have run out of arrows. You're still dealing with 2x1d8 from the axe-wielders.
How exactly do goblins count as lower risk than skeletons as an Undead Hunter? Skeletons can wield weak weapons like warhammers and the +3/+3 melee bonus means you will kill them significantly faster. It just doesn't make any sense to go back to Kuldahar Pass and hold a chokepoint against dozens of goblins when you can go to VoS, and 1v1 Lesser Shadows so that you can hold a chokepoint against a half dozen skeletons.
I’ve often thought Flail of Mae should get more credit. It’s a great HoF weapon. As I recall, it’s also much cheaper than the Three White Doves. It’s a better weapon for TFG and most of DE than TWD. TWD will also lose some relevance once the Pally can destroy undead through turning.
Not really. It's just a weak weapon. You're paying tens of thousands of gold for a 1 in 20 chance to lose your opponent's drops. I'd rather have Hammer Flail +2 since stun is effectively a death sentence. The only exception to that are trolls, but honestly I think you're better off stealthing through DE1 and DE2. A 5% chance to take one out isn't going to be much different from Flaming Oil. How you deal with DE4 reliably, I'm not entirely sure, but you probably rely on the trapped adventurers although they bug out sometimes.
If you've got the money to spend on Flail of Mae, then you've got the money to spend on TWD. Maces are also a much better proficiency early game because you can find a guaranteed Mace +1 in VoS. As far as the two areas you listed go, TFoM isn't going to address the biggest risks you face. It's probably best to stealth past everything that you can.
Late-game, you're going to be using Morningstar(s) of Action, +4 when TWD doesn't apply. I mean, it deals double damage to the final boss, and TU doesn't come online until very late. Trying to dismiss it is as overrated is ridiculous.
Re goblins vs skeletons, bear in mind that you are here partly to document your runs/attempts, and partly to get feedback, ideas and tips. I’m all for reasonable dialogue, but if it turns into you calling people and their ideas/gameplay silly or stupid, you won’t get any engagement. There’s my $0.02.
I agree that going against goblins vs against skeletons may be sub-optimal for a UH, but it definitely isn’t for every other warrior class. So Yigor’s idea would be quite relevant for your upcoming barbarian run, for example. And while suboptimal for the UH, that doesn’t mean it’s not viable for a no-reload run. The strategy is multiple holds of a choke point, with an easy escape route. It doesn’t really matter whether it takes 4 or 6 or 10 goes to clear the Pass, so long as it can be done safely.
As for the TWD and FoM, please read carefully. Nowhere did I say that TWD is overrated. It’s a great weapon against undead, and one of my first buys in HoW once cash is less of an issue.FoM has broader application against enemies, because its special power works against everything. I also suspect that magic resistance does not block it. The cost of lost item drops is trivial against most enemies.
I do agree, btw, that flail/morningstar isn’t the best beginning bludgeoning proficiency, if more than one will be used. It’s got the best damage and long term potential, but the worst short-term access - which is quite important for a HoF solo. Mace is clearly better also for the Love of Black Bess, which is Conlan’s best weapon from the perspective of damage/enchantment vs cost. But flail still works if one can get into HoW and get looting, because of FoM.
@Aerich Actually, I cleared the Kuldahar Pass just for the sake of completeness, not because I was blocked in the Vale of Shadows or whatever. 😉 Also, I thought that my UH needs level 10 to go to HoW and planned to continue a bit in VoS. However, suddenly, Hjollder accepted my help (my UH had level 9 and 400,000 XP). 😎
Re goblins vs skeletons, bear in mind that you are here partly to document your runs/attempts, and partly to get feedback, ideas and tips. I’m all for reasonable dialogue, but if it turns into you calling people and their ideas/gameplay silly or stupid, you won’t get any engagement. There’s my $0.02.
Well, this is an Ironman thread, and so far it's devolving into a troll thread, so if by "engagement" you mean "lack of Yigor's trolling", and your condescending attitude alongside your implicit support of it then that would be preferred.
@Aerich Actually, I cleared the Kuldahar Pass just for the sake of completeness, not because I was blocked in the Vale of Shadows or whatever. 😉 Also, I thought that my UH needs level 10 to go to HoW and planned to continue a bit in VoS. However, suddenly, Hjollder accepted my help (my UH had level 9 and 400,000 XP). 😎
It doesn't matter. This is an Ironman thread, and you're clearly just here to be an annoying troll.
It doesn't matter. This is an Ironman thread, and you're clearly just here to be an annoying troll.
Hmm... who is a troll here? U created tons of useless "Ironman" threads about your supposed solo runs, that will be never completed (maybe except for FMC). 👈
Anyway, farewell, I can document my progress in my own thread. 😎
It doesn't matter. This is an Ironman thread, and you're clearly just here to be an annoying troll.
Hmm... who is a troll here? U created tons of useless "Ironman" threads about your supposed solo runs, that will be never completed (maybe except for FMC). 👈
Anyway, farewell, I can document my progress in my own thread. 😎
You’ve read a lot into and implied a lot into what I’ve said that just isn’t true. What implicit support? I called you both out on your manner of communication, without naming names.
Yigor plays with reloads and you are not, at least for certain runs. Of course that changes what is reasonable. It looks to me that you’ve been quick to take offence, and have thrown some insulting comments around that were unnecessary.Then you got it back, which was also unnecessary. However, you did say “if you were smart” before criticizing, so you brought it on yourself.
If you want to read into how I’ve interacted with you as condescension, that’s up to you. Clearly I’m not going to be able to change your mind, nor do I wish to put any more effort into it. I get paid to deal with conflict for a living, so I’m not going to do any more of it here for free. I’m happy to let it go and continue on discussing this game in a reasonable manner with you, but if that’s not how it goes, so be it.
I apologize for my part in this, but I would also point out in fairness that I was merely defending myself. Yigor has been aggressively hostile towards these threads, and the first to place barbs, for quite some time. There is only so much one can take before they feel the need to respond in kind, especially in a thread about Ironman runs where the explicit purpose is being derided.
I think the best solution is for him to have his own thread where he can document his journey and observations without the Ironman restrictions overhead. You are right that some applicable knowledge comes out of it, but at the same time this is a thread about Ironman runs, and that should be respected.
What you are saying is fair, and I understand where you're coming from. I appreciate your openness as well as the knowledge of the game that you have freely supplied. It is not my intention to demand more energy from you than you wish to give. It is clear that your knowledge of the game is deep, I have learned much from you, and I would like to continue discussing the game in a reasonable manner with you as well.
Accepted. FWIW, Yigor is enthusiastic about the game and has a far different conception than I about what is possible and playable. I didn’t interpret his earlier comments as belittling/trolling, but I wasn’t analyzing for that either. There’s only the three of us active atm on this board, so it makes sense for us to try to interact in the best way possible.
I agree, looking back on it, that Yigor’s run can and should go in its own thread, where it now is for the future.
Frankly, I would never pick a paladin, UH or not, for a solo HoF run. My threshold for chugging along just isn’t that high. It’s spells and tactics that allow the solo HoF character to survive, and a pally doesn’t get enough of the former for my liking. I’d rather play a F/Cl, or better yet, R/Cl.
I understand. I recognize that kind of unrestrained creativity is very powerful for figuring out things that staid thinkers like me would not consider, e.g., the chokepointing of KP to get another ~100k XP. I very much appreciate his contributions in this vein, and yes I look forward to what he determines with explorations, but as you are saying Yigor's thread should be separate as the intention here is purely Ironman. I also would greatly appreciate more respect from him vis-a-vis Ironman because it would be returned in recognizance of the creativity and bravery that he exhibits in exploring limits, e.g.., using FoM instead of TWD as it gets at engine features that potentially require direct observation, a time sink that deserves respect.
I apologize for my insulting comments earlier towards him. That kind of creativity is decidedly not idiotic, and I very much just want to be part of a strong union that together does solid work towards the exploration of solo HoF Ironman runs, while acknowledging the importance of solo exploration to this venture.
I definitely don't disagree with you about solo paladin. UH is kind of the limit of what you can do, imo. Maybe Barb is able to deal w/late game better, but I think it all depends on how quickly you can get to high-level, and how difficult things are here, as well as where high-level settles you.
Definitely agree about R/Cl. Personally, I think this is easily the strongest of the non-arcane casters, perhaps even 2nd to F/M/C although I would very much appreciate your perspective, but also question marks abound. Biggest QM imo is how things shake out at endgame due to lack of arcane spells. I think Gloomfrost + BI is readily clearable with Sanc, making TWD reliable, and BC fight also reliable with appropriate Aerial Servant. That leaves how things in Dorn's go up in the air. Can a non-arcane caster deal reliably with these challenges? I just don't know, I seem to have lapses at important times.
I haven’t done LDD with a solo R/C, but I think it would be manageable. I have done most of LDD with a solo totemic Druid. Really, what makes solo easier for a caster is relentless abuse of the AI targeting mechanism combined with meta-knowledge.
LDD mostly allows one to bring summons into battle. Where that’s not possible, I like to enter buffed, summon, then go invisible to force re-targeting. A R/Cl has Sanctuary for that, and a full slate of good buffs. A Druid gets Nature’s Beauty (AoE blindness with no save!). Both will have Ironskins and Entropy Shield.
Comments
If you were smart, and decided to use The Three White Doves instead of spending your money from raiding the BI on an expensive +3 flail with what amounts to a downside, and a belt that is of questionable utility since you can just use DUHM to rest-heal and should be at EL16 by this point to cast AD, then you'd probably be able to melee him as well.
Phew! I'm not intelligent, okay. But my gameplay works anyway. 😎
N.B. My reloads were rather "technical" (in order to save time while resting in hostile areas) , I could easily avoid them, if neccesary.
She's an outer-planar creature, you goober. You'll do double damage with TWD, and have the same chance of one-shotting her (while keeping the opportunity to get her drops).
You're reloading man, pretty much anything "works" in a reload run. Reloading until you get a safe rest in a hostile area is not a valid strategy for a no-reload run. For example, anyone can raid the BI by picking somewhere in the Barrows where they're alone, and resting until they get Sanctuary back.
Without it you would need to figure out how to get back to Edion's tower if you wanted to get Sanctuary back, and use your limited number of invis pots otherwise.
This is just sillly
While some parts of Yigor’s strategy may be too high risk for a no-reload run, I think it’s quite clever. The thing about goblins is that their damage (non-critical) doesn’t go over 8. Skeletons can exceed that, and may also have better Thac0. It’s perfectly legitimate in a solo HoF game to play against lower risk enemies. It’s not even farming, it’s enemy selection.
I’ve often thought Flail of Mae should get more credit. It’s a great HoF weapon. As I recall, it’s also much cheaper than the Three White Doves. It’s a better weapon for TFG and most of DE than TWD. TWD will also lose some relevance once the Pally can destroy undead through turning.
And as for the ogre belt, it’s the best available before DE and orrick’s inventory update. The ogres are useful x1/day, and the minor regen is a great help. That saves spells like DUHM for combat.
Right, TWD is surely a nice weapon, but more expensive. I used it a lot. Contrary to its description, it never kills (not heavily wounded) powerful undead and extraplanar creatures in 1 shot! Otherwise, it would be too nifty vs Yxi, Belhifet etc. ⚠️
Lmao
This is only true against archers who have run out of arrows. You're still dealing with 2x1d8 from the axe-wielders.
How exactly do goblins count as lower risk than skeletons as an Undead Hunter? Skeletons can wield weak weapons like warhammers and the +3/+3 melee bonus means you will kill them significantly faster. It just doesn't make any sense to go back to Kuldahar Pass and hold a chokepoint against dozens of goblins when you can go to VoS, and 1v1 Lesser Shadows so that you can hold a chokepoint against a half dozen skeletons.
Not really. It's just a weak weapon. You're paying tens of thousands of gold for a 1 in 20 chance to lose your opponent's drops. I'd rather have Hammer Flail +2 since stun is effectively a death sentence. The only exception to that are trolls, but honestly I think you're better off stealthing through DE1 and DE2. A 5% chance to take one out isn't going to be much different from Flaming Oil. How you deal with DE4 reliably, I'm not entirely sure, but you probably rely on the trapped adventurers although they bug out sometimes.
If you've got the money to spend on Flail of Mae, then you've got the money to spend on TWD. Maces are also a much better proficiency early game because you can find a guaranteed Mace +1 in VoS. As far as the two areas you listed go, TFoM isn't going to address the biggest risks you face. It's probably best to stealth past everything that you can.
Late-game, you're going to be using Morningstar(s) of Action, +4 when TWD doesn't apply. I mean, it deals double damage to the final boss, and TU doesn't come online until very late. Trying to dismiss it is as overrated is ridiculous.
I agree that going against goblins vs against skeletons may be sub-optimal for a UH, but it definitely isn’t for every other warrior class. So Yigor’s idea would be quite relevant for your upcoming barbarian run, for example. And while suboptimal for the UH, that doesn’t mean it’s not viable for a no-reload run. The strategy is multiple holds of a choke point, with an easy escape route. It doesn’t really matter whether it takes 4 or 6 or 10 goes to clear the Pass, so long as it can be done safely.
As for the TWD and FoM, please read carefully. Nowhere did I say that TWD is overrated. It’s a great weapon against undead, and one of my first buys in HoW once cash is less of an issue.FoM has broader application against enemies, because its special power works against everything. I also suspect that magic resistance does not block it. The cost of lost item drops is trivial against most enemies.
I do agree, btw, that flail/morningstar isn’t the best beginning bludgeoning proficiency, if more than one will be used. It’s got the best damage and long term potential, but the worst short-term access - which is quite important for a HoF solo. Mace is clearly better also for the Love of Black Bess, which is Conlan’s best weapon from the perspective of damage/enchantment vs cost. But flail still works if one can get into HoW and get looting, because of FoM.
Well, this is an Ironman thread, and so far it's devolving into a troll thread, so if by "engagement" you mean "lack of Yigor's trolling", and your condescending attitude alongside your implicit support of it then that would be preferred.
It doesn't matter. This is an Ironman thread, and you're clearly just here to be an annoying troll.
Hmm... who is a troll here? U created tons of useless "Ironman" threads about your supposed solo runs, that will be never completed (maybe except for FMC). 👈
Anyway, farewell, I can document my progress in my own thread. 😎
You are an idiot.
Yigor plays with reloads and you are not, at least for certain runs. Of course that changes what is reasonable. It looks to me that you’ve been quick to take offence, and have thrown some insulting comments around that were unnecessary.Then you got it back, which was also unnecessary. However, you did say “if you were smart” before criticizing, so you brought it on yourself.
If you want to read into how I’ve interacted with you as condescension, that’s up to you. Clearly I’m not going to be able to change your mind, nor do I wish to put any more effort into it. I get paid to deal with conflict for a living, so I’m not going to do any more of it here for free. I’m happy to let it go and continue on discussing this game in a reasonable manner with you, but if that’s not how it goes, so be it.
I think the best solution is for him to have his own thread where he can document his journey and observations without the Ironman restrictions overhead. You are right that some applicable knowledge comes out of it, but at the same time this is a thread about Ironman runs, and that should be respected.
What you are saying is fair, and I understand where you're coming from. I appreciate your openness as well as the knowledge of the game that you have freely supplied. It is not my intention to demand more energy from you than you wish to give. It is clear that your knowledge of the game is deep, I have learned much from you, and I would like to continue discussing the game in a reasonable manner with you as well.
I agree, looking back on it, that Yigor’s run can and should go in its own thread, where it now is for the future.
Frankly, I would never pick a paladin, UH or not, for a solo HoF run. My threshold for chugging along just isn’t that high. It’s spells and tactics that allow the solo HoF character to survive, and a pally doesn’t get enough of the former for my liking. I’d rather play a F/Cl, or better yet, R/Cl.
I apologize for my insulting comments earlier towards him. That kind of creativity is decidedly not idiotic, and I very much just want to be part of a strong union that together does solid work towards the exploration of solo HoF Ironman runs, while acknowledging the importance of solo exploration to this venture.
I definitely don't disagree with you about solo paladin. UH is kind of the limit of what you can do, imo. Maybe Barb is able to deal w/late game better, but I think it all depends on how quickly you can get to high-level, and how difficult things are here, as well as where high-level settles you.
Definitely agree about R/Cl. Personally, I think this is easily the strongest of the non-arcane casters, perhaps even 2nd to F/M/C although I would very much appreciate your perspective, but also question marks abound. Biggest QM imo is how things shake out at endgame due to lack of arcane spells. I think Gloomfrost + BI is readily clearable with Sanc, making TWD reliable, and BC fight also reliable with appropriate Aerial Servant. That leaves how things in Dorn's go up in the air. Can a non-arcane caster deal reliably with these challenges? I just don't know, I seem to have lapses at important times.
LDD mostly allows one to bring summons into battle. Where that’s not possible, I like to enter buffed, summon, then go invisible to force re-targeting. A R/Cl has Sanctuary for that, and a full slate of good buffs. A Druid gets Nature’s Beauty (AoE blindness with no save!). Both will have Ironskins and Entropy Shield.
I started a solo pre-EE, but never finished. It was a lot less viable. Even pulling through area transitions alone makes a lot of areas much easier.
Yep.