To be honest I am tired of al the "op" talk... this isnt - thankfully - a MMORPG or starcraft 2. If you want a challenging game, take Garrick along. Dorn is powerful, but I'll take diversity over streamlined, overly balanced characters any day.
Also it's not like every NPC in BG is amazing. That's kinda the point. You can challenge yourself in so many differnt ways in this game! One of coolest ways, imo, you can challenge yourself is by using sub-optimal party members. I've never used Tiax or Quayle or Faldorn or Garrick, but I'm sure lots of people have and appreciate them for their flavor and the alternate play-styles they provide.
Whoa whoa whoa. Don't be hatin' on Tiax sayin' he aint powerful. He does "rule all" and all that.
Actually Tiax can be pretty devastating. If you give him the Guantlets of Ogre Power or cast the Strength spell on him or give him any of the slew of strength increasing potions combined with the Spiritual Hammer spell he can dish out crazy amounts of damage with his backstabs. I'm not sure if Draw Upon Holy Might stacks with any of those other affects but if it does he's just that much more deadly.
Quayle also gets a bad rap because people think his wisdom being low makes him a crappy cleric. Well, he's not just a cleric! He's a cleric/illusionist and no other character can cast the amount of spells he can per day. Having access to both mage and cleric spells also makes him infinitely versatile and a great addition to a group looking for a little spellcasting support. I've used him as my primary mage before and he did stellar, firing fireballs at people, using command and silence on enemy spellcasters and whatnot. What's not to like?
Faldorn has bad stats, I'll give you that but she is also the only single classed druid in the game and with the higher level cap in BG:EE and ToTSC she can cast higher level spells than a cleric. She gets some very handy summoning spells and the mage murdering insect swarm spell. Her innate dread wolf summon is also great as it adds another body on the battlefield and it can be quite deadly at the low to mid levels considering it has decent health, decent THAC0 and damage and moves faster than most targets. Give her a sling, sit her in the back and summon/buff/control away or shapeshift into a brown bear and take her to the frontlines. Very useful character.
Also it's not like every NPC in BG is amazing. That's kinda the point. You can challenge yourself in so many differnt ways in this game! One of coolest ways, imo, you can challenge yourself is by using sub-optimal party members. I've never used Tiax or Quayle or Faldorn or Garrick, but I'm sure lots of people have and appreciate them for their flavor and the alternate play-styles they provide.
Faldorn has bad stats, I'll give you that but she is also the only single classed druid in the game and with the higher level cap in BG:EE and ToTSC she can cast higher level spells than a cleric. She gets some very handy summoning spells and the mage murdering insect swarm spell. Her innate dread wolf summon is also great as it adds another body on the battlefield and it can be quite deadly at the low to mid levels considering it has decent health, decent THAC0 and damage and moves faster than most targets. Give her a sling, sit her in the back and summon/buff/control away or shapeshift into a brown bear and take her to the frontlines. Very useful character.
Garrick does indeed suck. Good call on that one.
Plus Faldorn eventually gets Pixie Dust, the only mass invisibility spell in the game and it only takes 1 round to cast. The +4 bonus to hit you get from attacking from invisibility (not to mention the strategic benefit) makes it a spell worthy of consideration depending upon the circumstances you expect to face.
Monks' natural 78% magic resistance at higher levels is so op. Give him the amulet of suldnessar, 2 ring of gaax and he is basically immune to anything magic (except sunfire and few others). Rassad at high levels becomes any lich and mage's worst nightmare.
OH MY GOSH, bbear *all* of your posts have to do with BGII when people are talking about BG1, please for the love of all that is good and holy play some Baldur's Gate 1 and come back. PLEASE.
Human Fighter, Chaotic Good, 14, 17, 15, 16, 13, 12 (15/18/16/17/16/13 at the end of BG1), Duals to a mage in the sequel at 9. By the end of it all, he's got (16/17/17/20/19/13)
Page 21 of the "Melee and Magic"manual says evil NPCs leave at 19 and 20 rep, Good at 1-2, Neutral at 1. I usually have some CN NPCs in my evil parties, as try to stay above 5 rep (when the chance for flaming fist to start hassling you starts)
However, now that I want to recruit him back(after kicking him earlier in the game), I get into a bugged dialogue bug where he joins the party and instantly leaves. Makes me sad..
Monks' natural 78% magic resistance at higher levels is so op. Give him the amulet of suldnessar, 2 ring of gaax and he is basically immune to anything magic (except sunfire and few others). Rassad at high levels becomes any lich and mage's worst nightmare.
Monks' natural 78% magic resistance at higher levels is so op. Give him the amulet of suldnessar, 2 ring of gaax and he is basically immune to anything magic (except sunfire and few others). Rassad at high levels becomes any lich and mage's worst nightmare.
No. Triple lower resistance in a sequencer = -90% magic resistance in yo' face!
Way too powerful. Killed Mulahey with two hits and Mulahey didn't even have the time to say his yield line. Same thing happened with Tranzig. Although he is low on hp so a kobold archer can kill him with one shot early in the game, most boss fights tend to get easy.
funny how the complaint is that dorn is op'd despite the fact that the monk is the most gamebreakingingly op'd class lategame. resistance to almost everything more magic resistance than a wizard slayer, faster than husain bolt, his fists do 1-20 base damage more than any sword can wear keldorns armor with the right stats which depletes their squishy handicap. they can find traps be invisible and the quivering palm and stunning blow are crazy powerful. oh and immunity to normal weapons, despite the fact my main char had to go through the hell trails for that abillity.
@randyroo Just stop comparing monks to other classes. A monk has serious drawbacks, especially the inability to use weapons. In BG 1 they are a pain compared to fighter-classes. You have no kit, no armor, no damage and life. You get stronger but still, even in late SoA and early ToB you are not even remotely overpowered. You lack a helmet, armor and weapons. Helmets grant immunity to critical hits, while some grant immunity to charm, give resistances or special abilities, like helm of brilliance, helm of protection, Vhailor's helm or helm of death. Free action makes you immune to the wonderfully overpowered bracers that grant improved haste(doubled attacks). No weapons means you are basically attacking with +1,+2 weapons etc. and you can't change them to kill mages who use protection from magical weapons, or the magic golems. And in BG2 you got so powerful weapons like the answerer(reduces armor and magic resistance), axe of the unyielding(decapitation no saving throw), soul reaver(reduces enemy atack rolls), silver blade(decapitation with saving throw), wave(kills fire elementals, Imix is a joke), crom faeyr, carsomy. All lost for some magic resistance that is only useful against spells, that disable you, while armor and kits give you immunities. You get 1d20 damage? Fine, have you checked carsomyr? 1d12+6, your fists don't get the +4 enchantment as bonus damage. If anything monks are still inferior,if not underpowered.
Now regarding Dorn. Mullahay has never been a big deal. And Dorn is only slightly better than Shar-teel. The strength bonus is not bad and his Blackguard abilities too, but the strength bonus becomes obsolete at around level 5, when you get loads of money for strength potions. The only thing that might be considered overly powerful is the fact, that he is using a class kit. But once some mods are out, where I can turn Shar-Teel into a Berserker etc. dorn will be in line with the other characters.
Dorn, OP? with those stats? no dice. nice strength, but otherwise... no. compared to Shar-Teel (even with her messed up proficiencies in BGEE), who has basically the same str with strenght spell, with at least weapon mastery, and the ability to dual class to thief... nah. Coran, Yeslick, Edwin and maybe Shar-Teel, they are OP as hell. Dorn, not so much.
In terms of who would kick who's ass in BG:EE it'll be Dorn chopping Rasaad in two. But remember that they will be importable into BG2:EE. Then Rasaad will kick Dorn's ass. So it's probably best to take the long view on it. Assuming that one intends to play the whole saga.
I'd actually be interested to hear how a PvP contest would go in the Black Pits, with PCs replicating Dorn's and Rasaad's stats at whatever level they would be most closely matched...
Might be unnecessary and a bit late, but I thought I would give my input:
As for people discussing Rasaad, I think he is awesome at any stage in the game (except MAYBE level 1, but he gets past that quickly with Monk experience progression). He can move very quickly to rush at mages/archers, he can detect traps while your rogue is picking the locks (twice as fast at dungeoneering yay!), or if you need a stealth guy you can (eventually) have him scout ahead with very quick movement. Also, he is a perfect candidate for Twinkle (Drizzt's Defending Scimitar), and if you put a point in single weapon style, he'll have a-3 AC bonus. Also, in his quest
there is a cursed belt that gives 19 strength, but puts you at 6 intelligence. 19 strength, equal to Dorn!
.
As for Dorn, I think he can be very useful. His poison is godly against mages (well anyone really, but I love disrupting spells), his aura is okay, and his heal is a lifesaver. Rancor early on is waaaaay too good, and for some reason it triggers in my game when I am using a different weapon (currently he is using either Spider's Bane or the Two-Handed Sword +3 from Durlag's, but the Rancor THAC0 gain triggers all the time.) His 19 Strength is very good, but not OP. You can achieve near that with certain items equippable items, spells, or a certain magic book.
He is a bit squishy, as some wyverns decided he did not deserve to live (while my Cleric with a slightly better constitution has more hit points than Dorn, and a better AC because of shield, and tanked those wyverns/Greater wyverns all day). Then again, in my party Kagain makes the perfect tank with his over 90 hit points and 21 Constitution (thank you Buckley's Buckler). I gave Dorn two points in Longbow to give my party a ranged hitter besides my cleric and Montaron with their slings, and Xzar's daggers. He has the boots of speed, and single handedly (or double handedly? Since he uses greatswords and bows) the last big level of Durlag's tower with kite tactics. Saved me a lot of healing... (Then again, Kivan could do this too, but Dorn can switch-hit with a greatsword really well after kiting for so long).
Now as for the -2 reputation? It seems like reputation juggling can be an issue for some, but there is always killing the occasional flaming fist/random person on a map (or paying the church if you are struggling with reputation at the other end of the spectrum). Dorn's initial -2 isn't a huge loss unless you A.) already have reputation problems from killing people or B.) decided Viconia was a good party member too (which she is). Most have dealt with Viconia's -2 before, it doesn't seem like it's a huge loss.
Did I miss anything? Hmmmm...I'll edit this if someone reminds me, but I think all of the main points are here.
Dorn was noticeably much more powerful than any other NPC I've taken through BG1, in my first BGEE experience. Certainly better than Neera. I haven't grabbed Rasaad yet.
He has poor Con/hp/Dex for a front-line type. He does a lot of damage, sure, but I mean a basic single-class mage or sorc with awful stats is still more powerful. Sleep wins you the first ~20% of the game even if you are soloing with a dagger and a 6 in Str. Horror wins you the next 20%. And so on.
Big melee damage is fun and all but him doing a tad more damage once or twice a round is hardly game-breaking. The Devs did a good job making his other stats weak within reason.
Dorn was noticeably much more powerful than any other NPC I've taken through BG1, in my first BGEE experience. Certainly better than Neera. I haven't grabbed Rasaad yet.
I have him and Shar-Teel in a playthrough and certainly by the middle of the game strictly on a melee level I haven't found there to be much of a difference between the two. Though his abilities definitely make him a better fighter than her.
Dorn was noticeably much more powerful than any other NPC I've taken through BG1, in my first BGEE experience. Certainly better than Neera. I haven't grabbed Rasaad yet.
Rasaad is underrated, I find him extremely useful, and if you enjoy rushing mages/archers you will probably enjoy him too (also, he is just such a nice guy, and he gets along with Khalid who is a good friend of mine). Neera, IMO, is a giant useless pile of OMG RANDOM SPELL YAY I'M SO ANNOYING AND USEFUL HAHAHAHA....not that I dislike her or anything...
Rasaad is kind of a weight in the early portions of the game but when he hits level 6, 7 and 8 he gets pretty damn powerful. His quest item turns him into a savage beast combine that with the +2 ThAC0 gloves and his to hit becomes highly competent. I currently have his THAC0 at 8.
Also it seems like there's more loot, thus more gold in BG:EE. I'd had a pretty constant supply of Potions of Heroism so I can get Rasaad's THAC0 down to 6 for a good portion of the time.
If I could only pick Dorn or Rasaad it would be Dorn though
In my opinion, Dorn still isn't better than Kagain... Of course 19 Str is brutal... but Dorn is much more killable than Kagain, who regenerates with 20 of Constitution. You give Gauntlets of Dexterity to the dwarf, and he becomes the best tank of the game.
So, I don't think Dorn is over power. It's Rasaad and Neera that are weaklings.
On consideration, and a complete playthrough using him, I must say that Coran is just plain better, and Dorn (asides from Rancor) is quite reasonable. You can reproduce 19 str with a belt, almost reproduce it with ogre gauntlets, and when it's important chug a potion to get a 23 or better, but you can't top that 20 Dex or illegal bow mastery.
To be honest I am tired of al the "op" talk... this isnt - thankfully - a MMORPG or starcraft 2. If you want a challenging game, take Garrick along. Dorn is powerful, but I'll take diversity over streamlined, overly balanced characters any day.
Nobody mentioned Kagain's 20 CON and Coran's 20 DEX and 3+ in Bows as OP stuff. Lmao
In my opinion, Dorn still isn't better than Kagain... Of course 19 Str is brutal... but Dorn is much more killable than Kagain, who regenerates with 20 of Constitution. You give Gauntlets of Dexterity to the dwarf, and he becomes the best tank of the game.
So, I don't think Dorn is over power. It's Rasaad and Neera that are weaklings.
Kagain regenerates 1 hp/minute, which is... well, pretty useless actually.
In my opinion, Dorn still isn't better than Kagain... Of course 19 Str is brutal... but Dorn is much more killable than Kagain, who regenerates with 20 of Constitution. You give Gauntlets of Dexterity to the dwarf, and he becomes the best tank of the game.
So, I don't think Dorn is over power. It's Rasaad and Neera that are weaklings.
Kagain regenerates 1 hp/minute, which is... well, pretty useless actually.
It saves potions, and healing spells for other party members. Also, when resting or traveling, he fully heals. Also if you give him the constitution tome or Buckley's buckler, or both, you increase his regeneration rate and give him MORE hit points.
Comments
Actually Tiax can be pretty devastating. If you give him the Guantlets of Ogre Power or cast the Strength spell on him or give him any of the slew of strength increasing potions combined with the Spiritual Hammer spell he can dish out crazy amounts of damage with his backstabs. I'm not sure if Draw Upon Holy Might stacks with any of those other affects but if it does he's just that much more deadly.
Quayle also gets a bad rap because people think his wisdom being low makes him a crappy cleric. Well, he's not just a cleric! He's a cleric/illusionist and no other character can cast the amount of spells he can per day. Having access to both mage and cleric spells also makes him infinitely versatile and a great addition to a group looking for a little spellcasting support. I've used him as my primary mage before and he did stellar, firing fireballs at people, using command and silence on enemy spellcasters and whatnot. What's not to like?
Faldorn has bad stats, I'll give you that but she is also the only single classed druid in the game and with the higher level cap in BG:EE and ToTSC she can cast higher level spells than a cleric. She gets some very handy summoning spells and the mage murdering insect swarm spell. Her innate dread wolf summon is also great as it adds another body on the battlefield and it can be quite deadly at the low to mid levels considering it has decent health, decent THAC0 and damage and moves faster than most targets. Give her a sling, sit her in the back and summon/buff/control away or shapeshift into a brown bear and take her to the frontlines. Very useful character.
Garrick does indeed suck. Good call on that one.
Human Fighter, Chaotic Good, 14, 17, 15, 16, 13, 12 (15/18/16/17/16/13 at the end of BG1), Duals to a mage in the sequel at 9. By the end of it all, he's got (16/17/17/20/19/13)
However, now that I want to recruit him back(after kicking him earlier in the game), I get into a bugged dialogue bug where he joins the party and instantly leaves. Makes me sad..
Helmets grant immunity to critical hits, while some grant immunity to charm, give resistances or special abilities, like helm of brilliance, helm of protection, Vhailor's helm or helm of death.
Free action makes you immune to the wonderfully overpowered bracers that grant improved haste(doubled attacks).
No weapons means you are basically attacking with +1,+2 weapons etc. and you can't change them to kill mages who use protection from magical weapons, or the magic golems. And in BG2 you got so powerful weapons like the answerer(reduces armor and magic resistance), axe of the unyielding(decapitation no saving throw), soul reaver(reduces enemy atack rolls), silver blade(decapitation with saving throw), wave(kills fire elementals, Imix is a joke), crom faeyr, carsomy. All lost for some magic resistance that is only useful against spells, that disable you, while armor and kits give you immunities. You get 1d20 damage? Fine, have you checked carsomyr? 1d12+6, your fists don't get the +4 enchantment as bonus damage. If anything monks are still inferior,if not underpowered.
Now regarding Dorn. Mullahay has never been a big deal. And Dorn is only slightly better than Shar-teel. The strength bonus is not bad and his Blackguard abilities too, but the strength bonus becomes obsolete at around level 5, when you get loads of money for strength potions. The only thing that might be considered overly powerful is the fact, that he is using a class kit. But once some mods are out, where I can turn Shar-Teel into a Berserker etc. dorn will be in line with the other characters.
compared to Shar-Teel (even with her messed up proficiencies in BGEE), who has basically the same str with strenght spell, with at least weapon mastery, and the ability to dual class to thief... nah.
Coran, Yeslick, Edwin and maybe Shar-Teel, they are OP as hell. Dorn, not so much.
I'd actually be interested to hear how a PvP contest would go in the Black Pits, with PCs replicating Dorn's and Rasaad's stats at whatever level they would be most closely matched...
Might be unnecessary and a bit late, but I thought I would give my input:
As for people discussing Rasaad, I think he is awesome at any stage in the game (except MAYBE level 1, but he gets past that quickly with Monk experience progression). He can move very quickly to rush at mages/archers, he can detect traps while your rogue is picking the locks (twice as fast at dungeoneering yay!), or if you need a stealth guy you can (eventually) have him scout ahead with very quick movement. Also, he is a perfect candidate for Twinkle (Drizzt's Defending Scimitar), and if you put a point in single weapon style, he'll have a-3 AC bonus. Also, in his quest
As for Dorn, I think he can be very useful. His poison is godly against mages (well anyone really, but I love disrupting spells), his aura is okay, and his heal is a lifesaver. Rancor early on is waaaaay too good, and for some reason it triggers in my game when I am using a different weapon (currently he is using either Spider's Bane or the Two-Handed Sword +3 from Durlag's, but the Rancor THAC0 gain triggers all the time.) His 19 Strength is very good, but not OP. You can achieve near that with certain items equippable items, spells, or a certain magic book.
He is a bit squishy, as some wyverns decided he did not deserve to live (while my Cleric with a slightly better constitution has more hit points than Dorn, and a better AC because of shield, and tanked those wyverns/Greater wyverns all day). Then again, in my party Kagain makes the perfect tank with his over 90 hit points and 21 Constitution (thank you Buckley's Buckler). I gave Dorn two points in Longbow to give my party a ranged hitter besides my cleric and Montaron with their slings, and Xzar's daggers. He has the boots of speed, and single handedly (or double handedly? Since he uses greatswords and bows) the last big level of Durlag's tower with kite tactics. Saved me a lot of healing... (Then again, Kivan could do this too, but Dorn can switch-hit with a greatsword really well after kiting for so long).
Now as for the -2 reputation? It seems like reputation juggling can be an issue for some, but there is always killing the occasional flaming fist/random person on a map (or paying the church if you are struggling with reputation at the other end of the spectrum). Dorn's initial -2 isn't a huge loss unless you A.) already have reputation problems from killing people or B.) decided Viconia was a good party member too (which she is). Most have dealt with Viconia's -2 before, it doesn't seem like it's a huge loss.
Did I miss anything? Hmmmm...I'll edit this if someone reminds me, but I think all of the main points are here.
Big melee damage is fun and all but him doing a tad more damage once or twice a round is hardly game-breaking. The Devs did a good job making his other stats weak within reason.
Also it seems like there's more loot, thus more gold in BG:EE. I'd had a pretty constant supply of Potions of Heroism so I can get Rasaad's THAC0 down to 6 for a good portion of the time.
If I could only pick Dorn or Rasaad it would be Dorn though
So, I don't think Dorn is over power. It's Rasaad and Neera that are weaklings.