Polymorph and Wand of Paralyzation sound Primo. When I get there I think I will try an attack based on NPCs with both Potion and Ring of Fire Resistance, then Wand of Heaven and Wand of Fire/Fireball [Polymorph first] plus other Potions, Fire Shield and Buff-Debuffs. Good to be aware of the need to get it right the first time as possible bug accelerating Regen on Reloads may exist and it would be a major ******** to get stuck on the Island !!
It's an old thread, @Eadwyn_G8keeper, I believe the major issues with Karoug have now been fixed.
He's still a fairly tough opponent, but if you take with you the bastard swords Krondar +1/+3 and Albruin +1 (both of which you can find before going to the island), then (together with items which you'll find after going there) you'll be more-than-adequately armed to kill anything on the island. The most important spell for this fight is to buff with Haste (or use Oils of Speed), but of course other spells and wands help too.
I think the only situation in which getting stuck on the island is still a danger is if you have a party with no warrior classes at all, because in that case you might be unable to wield the relevant weapons. (A party with a single warrior is sufficient, I've tried that and succeeded, not excessively difficult.) Even then, maybe it's possible to take him down with just the Werebane dagger (found just before you meet Karoug) and spells, although I haven't tested that. But heck, of course your party is meant to include a warrior or two, anyone with no warriors has only himself to blame.
I think the only situation in which getting stuck on the island is still a danger is if you have a party with no warrior classes at all, because in that case you might be unable to wield the relevant weapons. (A party with a single warrior is sufficient, I've tried that and succeeded, not excessively difficult.) Even then, maybe it's possible to take him down with just the Werebane dagger (found just before you meet Karoug) and spells, although I haven't tested that. But heck, of course your party is meant to include a warrior or two, anyone with no warriors has only himself to blame.
A party of 6 pure mages (or sorcerers) could kill him quite easily by spamming Magic Missiles. People keep forgetting that Karoug has 0% magic resistance, i.e. no magic resistance at all.
A party of 6 pure clerics could as easily kill him using Wands of the Heavens and Potions of Fire Breath (he has 50% fire resistance).
May I suggest to rename this thread as "Very easy to kill werewolf"
Apparently this part if the game is bugged a wee bit more. I've been trying to kill him for like 20 times. Three wands of magic missiles weren't enought to grill him, he kept on regen very fast. So I changed my strategy: I entered the room with my main character leaving the rest downstairs. I instantly attacked Dease and then retreated. His company arrived and he jined them a couple of seconds later. While I was fighting the wolfweres I noticed a small "worm" crawling around with status dead. It was the Greater Wolfwere. After I killed the wolfweres I started attacking him with the silver dagger and more missiles. To no avail. There were critical hits but no damage done. He kept on inflicting 1 HP damage to my characters and after I took the party upstairs to fetch the goodies and came back - we was gone.
I might have used the wand of morphing on him, but I'm not sure about this...very strange
Wands of Magic Missile only shoot one missile at a time. There's no way in hell even three of them at once are going to get past the GWW's regen, you're hardly tickling him. Use some real spells that pack some punch, or just backstab him with the werebane dagger.
Yes, I need to take him out him with the lightning. And yes, wand of paralysis turns him into that dead something. This time it worked really well. I went upstairs, killed Daese before he turned into the wolfwere, lured the other four downstairs and took them out one by one. The Greater Wolfwere stayed (much to my surprise) this time upstairs, so this time it looks quite good...
You can use Magic Missiles too, just not from the Wand.
Wand of Magic Missile Damage per round: 1d4+1 (min=2, max=5, mean=3.5) - Not nearly enough, pitiful damage
Level 9 Mage casting Magic Missile Damage per round: 5d4+5 (min=10, max=25, mean=17.5) - Not enough alone, but doable if the other party members do some damage too
If you happen to have a full party of mages/sorcerers: Six Level 9 Mages casting Magic Missile Damage per round: 30d4+30 (min=60, max=150, mean=105) - More than enough
Neera is my only mage in the party. I ended up luring him outside, paralysed him and let Neera cast lightning on him while my main character attacked him with the dagger (the Potion of Frost Giant Strenght), two other party members kept on firing at him from the wands. It took a while and some additional magic missiles from Neera until eventually he went down....
@Crom2: the "worm" in your earlier attempt sounds very like the effect of the Wand of Polymorphing, so I reckon that must be what you did. It's actually a squirrel rather than a worm, but in a dark location it's hard to tell the difference.
@Erg: yes, good point, a party of magic users ought to be able to take him down with wands and spells alone. An all-thief party might have trouble, I suppose, with only the Werebane dagger to use, but even so they might be able to nail him by careful use of multiple traps. Perhaps any full party will have some way of finishing the fight if they find the right method, but I guess a soloist might be stuck with no way to put out enough DPS to beat his regen ... I dunno, I like to have a party, so I've never tested this fight solo.
@Erg: yes, good point, a party of magic users ought to be able to take him down with wands and spells alone. An all-thief party might have trouble, I suppose, with only the Werebane dagger to use, but even so they might be able to nail him by careful use of multiple traps. Perhaps any full party will have some way of finishing the fight if they find the right method, but I guess a soloist might be stuck with no way to put out enough DPS to beat his regen ... I dunno, I like to have a party, so I've never tested this fight solo.
I agree. For soloist it would be much harder to defeat, but still possible.
For some of the builds it would be easier (in particular for dual or multi, but also a solo sorcerer can do it as @SpaceInvader has shown), for others (e.g. solo cleric) it would be much more difficult and it would require very cheesy tactics and several attempts.
For instance, a solo cleric would have to use hundreds of Glyphs of Warding combined with a Wand of the Heavens or a Potion of Fire Breath. This should be doable in theory, but to be honest I've never tried myself with a solo cleric.
Just checked Karoug's stats in Near infinity. It's important to note that KAROUG.CRE is NOT the creature you fight (he has 600 hp and crazy stats); he's only the mage whom you talk to after which he changes via script into WOLFWEGR.CRE which has much more manageable stats.
WOLFWEGR.CRE has its regeneration applied via an equipped item which is not bugged because it has Instant/While Equipped in its timing mode (regeneration doesn't accumulate after reloads). Defeating him is hard but not brokenly so. I enjoyed the challenge a lot and this thread contains tons of useful tips for defeating him.
Just a thought, but I wonder if transforming Karoug into a squirrel with the Wand of Polymorphing before he transforms into the GWW might block the second transformation, so that you could maybe end up fighting a squirrel with Karoug's unbeatable regen instead of the GWW's merely-very-high regen? That might explain the "immortal squirrel" issue.
Mincs + Khalid with the Bastard Sword and the Dagger (none of them had any proficiencies in those)+ potions of frost giant STR. 2x spell casters spamming magic missiles and a cleric to buff - bless, chant, haste, defensive harmony and mass protection from evil... He went down pretty fast... However...
....I regret going to that island, I am now stuck, effected by lycanthropy... No cure it seems, even though I killed Mendas
lol. nice to read that thread today) yes, i noticed that guy was damn hard to beat too (bgee/diff.lvl hard)..when i had to finish the island.. happy to see i am not alone to have had some..surprises there.
Finally, i passed him..but was fun/hard, yes!) ... i did NOT understand that the bastard sword +1/+3 could work on wolfwere then ('thought only the balduran one could work..but was in the locked chest just BEHIND him..hard to get without killing him first)) )... could have been easier damn..nice to know from now though.
... anyway, i had a lot of fun with that encounter! I remember the first 3 tries were total slaughters for my 6 so far unbeatable/unstoppable lv6/7 team with their well tested +2 weapons & tactics so far!..karoug+2nd mago+the wolf pack on the left..was too much for a casual encounter it seems.. )))
... finally, i had to do a special plot with only my main char as 'punching ball' (bard blade - defensive spin, fire shield, etc.. and buffed to high heavens + using vampiric touches working great on him too!) + coran (with silver dagger / invisibility/stabb) + high fire res+fireballs wand/etc sick fires all the way! - only 2, not to risk the others beeing slaughtered in the meantimes!.. and finally that worked)
... if i had known the bastard sword +1/+3 could work on him, could have been easier (only noticed the silver dagger, just found the boat level before, logically, was working, yes)...especially with Ajantis having it in the team (lv5..not aware of that..i used him only in the rear with crossbows at that time..!)...
funny anyway.. was kinda an epic little fight as such. memorable moments
One of the best cheese tactics is to use the stairs. First you trap every level beforehand with your thief, then you just let them chase you down the stairs. Each new level kills the first chump through the door. When you get back to the ground floor if they chase you out of the boat you have your mage unleash the minor sequencer with stacked magic missiles. 10d4+TEN damage stacked with virtually any other effective attack will usually kill the gww. I used it in combo with Jaheira using the wand of the heavens. You should have seen the look on his face.
revisited an old savegame exactly before this very hard encounter. it seems that it takes less than two rounds to fully regenerate.
charname: ranger7/cleric7 Imoen as a level thief4/ mage9.
tried different things. due to weapons restrictions none of the useful weapons were usable by charname. so he just tanked.
Imoen did it basically solo. backstab x2 with dagger, followed by minor spell sequencer with dual magic missles. a wand of the heavens from charname added.
giving Imoen that violet potion saved a lot of reloads..
i killed all the wolfweres and werewolves except for karoug because he regened too fast. so i stole all the items and went back to the compound where villagers were thanking me for defeating the were-creatures. but when i went to collect my reward from the village leader in her building, she acted like the job was unfinished. so i went back to balduran's ship, went up several flights of stairs till i saw an ordinary were-creature which i killed but karoug was nowhere to be found. bug?
Blimey. What an ass Karoug was. I had put off the last floor/fight for about a week now since quite frankly I found the whole island boring and annoying (never done TotSC before), I didn't expect a somewhat hard boss fight on top of it. Still, having previous experience with Greater Wolfweres from BGII I knew about the insane regeneration and just had to figure out how to do enough damage really fast.
I pointed 3 Aganazzer wands (a use for wands other than selling them for gold?! That's a first!) a wand of magic missiles and a wand of heavens in his face and *poof*, he was gone. Not sure if Khalid got in a swing with his bastard sword or not.
The biggest problem for me was all the adds swarming in but some crowd control took care of them. Horror + Web was a very effective combination, then I jumped down a floor with only 2 adds and Karoug. Fried him and then chopped down the helpers, healed up a bit and went back upstairs for the stragglers.
Comments
He's still a fairly tough opponent, but if you take with you the bastard swords Krondar +1/+3 and Albruin +1 (both of which you can find before going to the island), then (together with items which you'll find after going there) you'll be more-than-adequately armed to kill anything on the island. The most important spell for this fight is to buff with Haste (or use Oils of Speed), but of course other spells and wands help too.
I think the only situation in which getting stuck on the island is still a danger is if you have a party with no warrior classes at all, because in that case you might be unable to wield the relevant weapons. (A party with a single warrior is sufficient, I've tried that and succeeded, not excessively difficult.) Even then, maybe it's possible to take him down with just the Werebane dagger (found just before you meet Karoug) and spells, although I haven't tested that. But heck, of course your party is meant to include a warrior or two, anyone with no warriors has only himself to blame.
A party of 6 pure clerics could as easily kill him using Wands of the Heavens and Potions of Fire Breath (he has 50% fire resistance).
May I suggest to rename this thread as "Very easy to kill werewolf"
I might have used the wand of morphing on him, but I'm not sure about this...very strange
You can use Magic Missiles too, just not from the Wand.
Wand of Magic Missile
Damage per round: 1d4+1 (min=2, max=5, mean=3.5) - Not nearly enough, pitiful damage
Level 9 Mage casting Magic Missile
Damage per round: 5d4+5 (min=10, max=25, mean=17.5) - Not enough alone, but doable if the other party members do some damage too
If you happen to have a full party of mages/sorcerers:
Six Level 9 Mages casting Magic Missile
Damage per round: 30d4+30 (min=60, max=150, mean=105) - More than enough
Neera is my only mage in the party. I ended up luring him outside, paralysed him and let Neera cast lightning on him while my main character attacked him with the dagger (the Potion of Frost Giant Strenght), two other party members kept on firing at him from the wands. It took a while and some additional magic missiles from Neera until eventually he went down....
mean(1dn) = (n+1)/2
if n = 4, we have (4+1)/2 = 5/2 = 2.5
So 1d4+1= 3.5
If you do not believe the formula above, just consider that
mean(1d4) = (1+2+3+4)/4 = 10/4 = 2.5
I agree. For soloist it would be much harder to defeat, but still possible.
For some of the builds it would be easier (in particular for dual or multi, but also a solo sorcerer can do it as @SpaceInvader has shown), for others (e.g. solo cleric) it would be much more difficult and it would require very cheesy tactics and several attempts.
For instance, a solo cleric would have to use hundreds of Glyphs of Warding combined with a Wand of the Heavens or a Potion of Fire Breath. This should be doable in theory, but to be honest I've never tried myself with a solo cleric.
An immortal squirrel, which takes hundreds of hits, bites and then disappears
WOLFWEGR.CRE has its regeneration applied via an equipped item which is not bugged because it has Instant/While Equipped in its timing mode (regeneration doesn't accumulate after reloads). Defeating him is hard but not brokenly so. I enjoyed the challenge a lot and this thread contains tons of useful tips for defeating him.
I hit him after the transform into the GWW. His status was "dead" while he was still moving around and attacking me.
However...
No cure it seems, even though I killed Mendas
yes, i noticed that guy was damn hard to beat too (bgee/diff.lvl hard)..when i had to finish the island.. happy to see i am not alone to have had some..surprises there.
Finally, i passed him..but was fun/hard, yes!)
... i did NOT understand that the bastard sword +1/+3 could work on wolfwere then ('thought only the balduran one could work..but was in the locked chest just BEHIND him..hard to get without killing him first)) )... could have been easier damn..nice to know from now though.
... anyway, i had a lot of fun with that encounter!
I remember the first 3 tries were total slaughters for my 6 so far unbeatable/unstoppable lv6/7 team with their well tested +2 weapons & tactics so far!..karoug+2nd mago+the wolf pack on the left..was too much for a casual encounter it seems.. )))
... finally, i had to do a special plot with only my main char as 'punching ball' (bard blade - defensive spin, fire shield, etc.. and buffed to high heavens + using vampiric touches working great on him too!) + coran (with silver dagger / invisibility/stabb) + high fire res+fireballs wand/etc sick fires all the way! - only 2, not to risk the others beeing slaughtered in the meantimes!.. and finally that worked)
... if i had known the bastard sword +1/+3 could work on him, could have been easier (only noticed the silver dagger, just found the boat level before, logically, was working, yes)...especially with Ajantis having it in the team (lv5..not aware of that..i used him only in the rear with crossbows at that time..!)...
funny anyway.. was kinda an epic little fight as such. memorable moments
charname: ranger7/cleric7
Imoen as a level thief4/ mage9.
tried different things. due to weapons restrictions none of the useful weapons were usable by charname. so he just tanked.
Imoen did it basically solo. backstab x2 with dagger, followed by minor spell sequencer with dual magic missles. a wand of the heavens from charname added.
giving Imoen that violet potion saved a lot of reloads..
I pointed 3 Aganazzer wands (a use for wands other than selling them for gold?! That's a first!) a wand of magic missiles and a wand of heavens in his face and *poof*, he was gone. Not sure if Khalid got in a swing with his bastard sword or not.
The biggest problem for me was all the adds swarming in but some crowd control took care of them. Horror + Web was a very effective combination, then I jumped down a floor with only 2 adds and Karoug. Fried him and then chopped down the helpers, healed up a bit and went back upstairs for the stragglers.