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"Enhanced Edition" UI

First off, I want to say how much I love the BG series. I've played them for endless hours. I pre-ordered BGEE and I must stay my biggest disappointment is the UI. I was really hoping to see a better UI like we saw in Icewind Dale 2. The game overall is awesome. I've only experienced a few bugs that were mostly taken care of with the first patch. I really think that the UI will be a big deciding factor for me on whether I purchase BG2EE.
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Comments

  • begolf00begolf00 Member Posts: 152
    edited December 2012
    @Magevil

    Not saying I hate the new GUI, it could use some improvement but IWD II had some of the worst GUI that I have ever seen for an infinity game. I was on another forum (Project eternity:Kickstarter) and we had this discussion and many do not like the IWD II GUI vs the BG series. Even the developer on the kickstarter "Project Eternity" mentioned something about how the IWD II GUI could have been better. One of them played through Icewind Dale II and he kept missing buttons.

    http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2002/pc/rpg/icewinddale2/dale2_screen001.jpg

    My whole problem with it is the bottom right hand corner. All those little buttons crammed togeather in a circle like that. I constantly hit the wrong button when playing IWD II compared to the Baldurs gate series.
  • FelixKahFelixKah Member Posts: 18
    I for one liked the IWD2 UI ... the one in PST, too. Unlike the UI in the original BG games it didn't need so much space for the same options. The only problem I have with the BGEE UI is that the bars just resize and look kinda blurry with a higher resolution. I would prefer scaling like in Tutu.
  • begolf00begolf00 Member Posts: 152
    @FelixKah

    Fair enough. Even if the UI was like IWD II, I would get use to it eventually. I do like the current one, I think it would look better in the traditional brown. Also the issues you mentioned I hope they fix. For someone reason I always was able to use the PST GUI easier then IWD II, even though they are similar. Maybe it's the colour difference?
  • ArchaicArchaic Member Posts: 924
    @begolf00

    I rarely use the buttons on the UI anyways. I use all keyboard shortcuts. So for me the the IWD UI was streamlined and perfect.
  • begolf00begolf00 Member Posts: 152
    edited December 2012
    @Magevil

    Complete difference of opinion I guess. Oh well. I use some keyboard shortcuts but not all.
  • Dark_NeuronDark_Neuron Member Posts: 58
    I don't really get all the hate of the UI. Sure its not pretty, but who cares. It's the gameplay that counts, not the UI IMO.

    UI is passable enough.
  • begolf00begolf00 Member Posts: 152
    edited December 2012
    @ Dark_Neuron

    Never Said I hated the UI, just that it needs improvements. A good UI makes playing the game more of a natural experience which is linked to game play. I think that part is there mostly. Most of the stuff is cosmetic in nature that people want changed. Someone just recently changed the GUI to brown, I think it looks great.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/170803/#Comment_170803

    Scroll to the top
  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    If any of you are playing in 1920x1200 (and possible others, like 1920x1080) the UI currently is scaling incorrectly, such that more of your gameplay window is covered by the UI (combat log, portrait bar, options bar) than people playing at lower resolutions. I filed a bug report here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/9749/bug-gui-elements-not-scaling-correctly but haven't heard anything yet. It's a shame, because the bug A) makes the interface look more ugly and B) penalizes users who should be getting more gameplay area for their high resolution monitors.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    @Magevil

    I think the IWD2 UI is better than the BG:EE UI as well, however, the currently provided UI was on of the big hold up with the game. The game was delayed over 2 months for the UI we have. If they would of implemented a fully fleshed UI imagine how much longer it would of been delayed. Plus, the developer wanted to maintain the look and feel of BG. Using a IDW2 UI would of been a big change for some people, angering just as many than it pleases.

    That said, improvements will come. Once the game breaking issues are taken care of then they may release updated UI. Maybe a modder will improve the UI, who knows.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    agris said:

    If any of you are playing in 1920x1200 (and possible others, like 1920x1080) the UI currently is scaling incorrectly, such that more of your gameplay window is covered by the UI (combat log, portrait bar, options bar) than people playing at lower resolutions. I filed a bug report here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/9749/bug-gui-elements-not-scaling-correctly but haven't heard anything yet. It's a shame, because the bug A) makes the interface look more ugly and B) penalizes users who should be getting more gameplay area for their high resolution monitors.

    So that's why the UI is taking up so much of my screen. I thought it was supposed to be that way. I'm glad it's not supposed to be that way because the UI takes up way more real estate than it should. I'm beginning to feel this isn't really BGEE, what I'm playing is a port of BG: Ipad.
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    @begolf00: IWD2's UI had the big benefit of rebindable keys - it didn't force you to go through the spell menu just to cast something, which was very nice compared to what we have in BGEE.

    but actually, they should have thrown most of the original UI down the drain. keep the hotkey bar, but make it function differently, with actual, bindable hotkeys, and... add a nice radial menu to right click, y'know, like ones in NWN or Temple of Elemental Evil. also, add a radius display to spells, because it's fucking ridiculous that the player dearest has to guess whether their fireball will fry half of the team. (hint: it will. it always will.) actually, shamelessly copy a shitloads of things from ToEE (well, not the handling of turn based combat, BG is fine as it is), because they basically showed how the tactical combat in a crpg should look and feel like, and set the bar pretty damn high.

    sadly, currently the game is basically bgtutu + a few extra characters + BUGS, lots and lots of bugs. oh, and unchangeable FPS, which makes it downright unplayable for many people.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    The weapon sets and ability to right click and customize the bottom bar, are the two best features of IWD2 UI IMO.
  • IkonNavrosIkonNavros Member Posts: 227
    edited December 2012

    So that's why the UI is taking up so much of my screen. I thought it was supposed to be that way. I'm glad it's not supposed to be that way because the UI takes up way more real estate than it should. I'm beginning to feel this isn't really BGEE, what I'm playing is a port of BG: Ipad.

    @smeagolheart That is in fact correct, But replace Ipad with Tablets in General. Since Tablets are not the biggest viewing devices available, a certain lower amount of quality is enough for that devices, the zoom also fits perfectly inside that matter, if there would be no certain amount of zoom available, on Tablets the graphic would just look way too tiny.

    Sadly this Tablet related fixed zoom level has also entered the PC Version, but do not mistake that with the user controlled zoom, this are 2 seperate things :)

    But comes time, comes patches hopefully soon :D

  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641
    You cannot have your cake and eat it too in this case.

    When this game was developed it was developed with "multi-platform" in mind. Not Multi-platform in the case of "multiple code bases supporting multiple platforms" but "a single code base we can port to multiple platforms".

    This is a design decision intended to save development time and money. With decisions like this there are tradeoffs.

    Those radial menus you all are talking about with right clicks and all that? Those aren't re-producible on a tablet. Put that kind of IWD2 radial menu on a 10.7" screen and you'd be tapping the wrong button every single time.

    YES you are playing the iPad version of this game on the PC. That's what you should have expected. It's pretty logical that one of the reasons (if not THE reason) they created BG:EE is to grab the tablet market...BG already exists from GOG (for something like $10) for the PC...you didn't need a re-release by another company to play BG on your computer.

    You DID need a re-release to play it on the Tablet. It further follows, then, that the interface they've put into the game is an interface built for the Tablet, NOT for the PC.

    And before you get all up in arms about any of this you need to take a step back and step into Beamdog's shoes for a second. How else were they going to get the rights to re-release this game? The original content holders are getting a cut from GOG's sales already so there was no need to allow anyone to re-release a 20 year old game for the PC. Tablet HAD to be included and it HAD to be the focus of the market share or there'd never be a BG:EE to release.

    The budget for this being what it was, and the development staff being what it was, there was NO WAY you were getting two separate development tracks (one for the PC/MAC and one for the iPad/Tablets). Particularly in Apple's case with development for the iPad and the Mac OS X being similar, it only made sense to go this direction. The game isn't being sold for enough money and there wasn't enough development staff to take the game down two different directions. It had to be one code base for all the platforms...and in doing so that limits your UI to be something usable on the smallest screen you're going to support...that being the Tablet PC.

    And, unless this thing sells a metric s**tton of copies, you're going to see the same thing for BG2:EE as well.

    Even Microsoft understands this as a trend in the computer industry. Why do you think Windows 8 looks more like a Tablet interface than a PC interface? It's much cleaner and easier to maintain one code base that works on all the various devices (Phones, Tablets, Laptops and Desktops) than it is to try to develop a separate software code base for each device.

    But in doing so, you make tradeoffs. UI is one of those tradeoffs.

    --Illydth
  • IkonNavrosIkonNavros Member Posts: 227
    edited December 2012
    @Illydth Well, why then making a pc port at all when not delivering there a 1080P optimized GUI and with a forded hardcoded zoom (is not necessary for the pc version at all, since as opposite to the tablet versions, on pc even without hardcoded zoom the graphic gets not that small on 1920x1080 compared with similiar tablet resolutions)?

    In that Case, Beamdog already has forseen all that negative kind of reaction for the pc version and as you do imply - more or less... because "we" the pc gamers as you said should have known that negative side of that trade-off Multi-Platform game, so the Devs will also not care even if we ask them to change something..


    I just hope they are not acting the way like that conclusion does imply, i seriously hope, they listen.
  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641
    Ikon, No offense but I may not have translated your post correctly. It's obvious english is not your first language, so please take no offense if my reply misreads some of what you posted.

    In all cases you would make a PC port, because there are some people who do not own Tablet PC's...if your code base allows port to a platform why WOULDN'T you port to that platform? Obviously the original game was PC based so there's ABSOLUTELY no reason why you wouldn't produce the game for the PC...it's sort of a "for free" platform to produce for. If they'd had to go through a whole bunch of extra steps and code and time to produce a PC release, I would argue they might not have done so...but the fact is, there's no reason for them to have had to have gone through hoops to produce for the PC so the PC is one of the platforms released.

    The next part i'm having trouble understanding. I don't own the PC version so I don't know if you're suggesting that they SHOULD HAVE developed 1080p with an optimized GUI or asking why they did if my statements are correct...by what I read I'm assuming you're statement is that they DO NOT have an optimized GUI for current PC hardware.

    My point being exactly that developing an optimized GUI for 1080p monitors is not going to get you anything from an iPad/Tablet release perspective...the tablet can't use an interface designed for that level of graphical capability. A GUI designed for a 24" monitor is NOT going to be a viable GUI on a 10.7" screen. While the iPad DOES SUPPORT 1080p graphics, with such a small screen size, you can't have a small button on the screen...that button has to be large enough to tap on on the iPad, which means expanded to a 24" monitor that button becomes huge. Resolution supported does not dictate interface size...

    It's not about devs Caring or not Caring Ikon. I'm CERTAIN the devs care enough to create whatever we, their customers, want. It's about money and limitations of design decisions. The design decision for this game is based on the financial outlay they are capable of producing, and that financial outlay is limited.

    You can't create 2 different GUI's without splitting the software base, and you can't design a GUI for a 24" monitor that works on a 10.7" screen. This is why they're not releasing an iPhone version of BG:EE...you can't create a GUI that works on a 10.7" Screen that ALSO works on a 5" screen that ALSO works on a 24" screen...

    A GUI interface is limited to what works on the smallest supported screen. That's what they developed for and that's what you're playing with, even on your 24" PC monitor.
  • NathanNathan Member Posts: 1,007
    edited December 2012
    Hey guys,

    suffice it to say that we're committed to on-going development for BG:EE. One of the nice things about a unified code base is that improvements we make going forward, can be pushed backwards to BG:EE itself (and the tablet versions, too).

    The feedback for the GUI has been, in general, positive - but that doesn't mean we're ignoring the criticisms and won't keep looking at it when changes make sense to implement (barring the "but it's not 100% identical to BG1" and "but it's not brown like BG2" feedback... seriously, people! You gotta save all the brown-scale for BG2!).

    Especially not sure what everyone's complaint about the zooming is, though - you zoom in and out. In general, after playing with it, I enjoyed zooming in and out so much that going back to the other old versions for reference was painful. I missed it, a lot.

    @DinsdalePiranha funny story - we originally wanted to implement a radius, but the public outcry was... considerable. I think you can find the thread if you look for it in the feature request forum, somewhere.

    There's been a lot of back and forth on the UI, and the end result is what you've got - it makes some changes while toe-ing the line between what many felt was changing too much vs. changing too little. The end result would be the same regardless: you can't please everyone.

    As I said, though, we're working on it and will continue working on it to make it the best game it can be - this goes for all aspects of the game.
  • stardog765stardog765 Member Posts: 48
    I tell ya what this sounds like to me. This UI was designed with the iPad version in mind and all that was really done for the PC version was to sell enough to fund further development of the iPad version.

    With all due respect

  • IkonNavrosIkonNavros Member Posts: 227
    @nathan good to hear that you do indeed listen to reason :) Have you read that gamebanshee review? The complaint about the zoom was that we are basically "forced" to a hardcoded zoom feature, beside the normal user controlled zoom.

    With that i can agree, why not making the zoom fully user controlled? If a person wants to play without hardcoded zoom, would that be technically not possible in the EE?

    If perhaps a button could be made in the graphic menu with the option to switch hardcoded zoom off - that would be great, because as i said and i and quite a lot of other people would love to see the zoom really fully user controlled!

    And the GUI.. it is not really sharp on Resolutions like 1920x1080 - in ohther words, the buttons on the left are so blurry at that kind of resolutions.
  • IkonNavrosIkonNavros Member Posts: 227
    edited December 2012

    I tell ya what this sounds like to me. This UI was designed with the iPad version in mind and all that was really done for the PC version was to sell enough to fund further development of the iPad version.

    With all due respect

    And Tablet is no PC - A pc just does not need a hardcoded zoom, on a tablet anything can be really too small, but on the PC it is different! 135% is insane.

    Anyway, i go and ask for a refund, i am out here forever, Bye!

  • stardog765stardog765 Member Posts: 48
    edited December 2012
    Im not real clear on what you all mean by hard coded zoom. Do you mean its hard coded that we can only zoom out so far and you want to zoom out or in farther? Sorry I just dont know what you all are talking about I guess.

    My problem is I cant stand to look at the game with the UI taking up the whole dang screen. He says it was painful switching back to the original BG. Well I tell you what the original BG with widecreen mod looks awesome so im not sure what hes looking at.

  • NathanNathan Member Posts: 1,007
    edited December 2012
    @stardog765 that's the part I'm not getting about the zoom thing - it's hardcoded in that, yes, it's in the engine...? But I'm not sure what the big fuss is about.

    edit: to specify a little more clearly - all I mean is Zoom is present. The amount of zoom is up to the user?

    r.e. pain, was talking about NOT having the zoom in the original games. Playing in the original games without it (the zoom) makes me miss it (the zoom). Not sure what you got out of that sentence before.

    With regards to the UI scaling, as I said, we're taking ongoing feedback with regards to this. We have an option that is largely untested, but can turn off the UI scaling in the game. It doesn't look pretty right now, as the game's modified UI was designed with the scaling in mind, but that's something we can look at making work a little better going forward if it's what people want.
  • CerevantCerevant Member Posts: 2,314
    Love love love the option to turn off scaling. (@TrentOster tweeted it not too long ago) I may be misreading it in this thread, but the gripe about zooming is that it keeps going back to the default level instead of staying where you set it.
  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    @Nathan Is the zoom setting not being remembered considered a bug or feature at this point? Every time a map / game loads, I have to zoom back out.
  • NathanNathan Member Posts: 1,007
    @agris yes, that's a bug. It's on the list, but a little further down while we deal with the other big ones first.

    It's annoying, but, it's not game breaking so the other bigger monsters need to be crushed first. @Cerevant if THAT's the case, then... I guess I still don't understand the proportion of hate for that? Seems pretty minor to me, but yes - we will be fixing that.
  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    @Nathan I completely agree, it's nothing critical and doesn't affect gameplay. I really appreciate you guys talking to us, I guess the environment here can be kinda hostile. We just want to help, man! Well, most of us. Some are kinda reveling in the bitch-fest, but that always happens on forums.
  • ArchaicArchaic Member Posts: 924
    "With regards to the UI scaling, as I said, we're taking ongoing feedback with regards to this. We have an option that is largely untested, but can turn off the UI scaling in the game. It doesn't look pretty right now, as the game's modified UI was designed with the scaling in mind, but that's something we can look at making work a little better going forward if it's what people want."

    @Nathan Best thing I've heard all day. Maybe I will start a thread/poll to see how many people would be interested in this option. Having an option to turn it off would make me VERY happy. With turning scaling off this would mean true resolution aspects then right?

  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    @Magevil The menus, including inventory, spells, and journal are letter boxed essentially by that same blue panel artwork throughout the UI. But the gameplay window looks sharp.
  • upi00rupi00r Member Posts: 91
    @Nathan
    So are there chances for true FULL HD GUI?
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