Kensai multiclass help

zhitbox

I have a few questions regarding kensai/mage build in BGEE in regards to viability. I remember kensai/mage builds having proficiency in katanas but from what I understood they are incredibly rare in BGEE? In this case how should I be spending by proficiency points? I image would put 2 of the available 4 points into weapon proficiency (e.g. katanas or longsword). In this regard how should the other 2 points be spent. Also I am unsure of the level caps in BGEE. How should I be splitting my duel class (e.g. Kensai 9 then split or kensai 13 then split).
Thanks in advance for any help

ZanathKariashi

You won't be a Kensage in BG:EE...xp cap is only high enough to hit lvl 8 in kensai..while you could technically dual at 7, hit mage 8, and do ok, you lose a lot of the benefit of being a Kensai in the first place (no GM, 1 damage/hit less, another kai usage (assuming a lvl 9 dual, or more if you intended a 13 dual))

As for weapons, you can't go wrong with longswords, there's plenty in BG1 and 2, and they're not really hard to get either (there's a VERY nice +2 you can pick up almost immediately. As for profs. ** Longsword, ** Two weapon style. Then your next two prof go into longsword (though it depends on how valuable GM is in the is version...in original BG1 it was awesome, in BG2, it wasn't really worth it). Though if it turns out the GM is gonna suck go flails with the last ** instead of longswords in prep for flail of ages in BG2.

As for 9 or 13, it depends on whether you plan to use a party or not...if you use anything bigger then a duo, dual at 9, if you're duo or soloing, dual at 13. The downtime to hit mage 10 is minimal, but it'll take A LONG time to hit mage 14 with several party members eating up xp.

And Katanas suck as a weapon class...just saying (they're ok for a SoA-only backstab thief, but that's about it)...Flail of Ages and Defender of easthaven (or one of the speed weapons) is pretty much THE equipment. The FoA is broken beyond belief, and DoEH gives 20% damage reduction (handy if you're GM in flails, otherwise a speed weapon might be better, since with all the defenses a Kensage can throw up, you really won't take damage at all and the extra attack would be better)

Renulan

The reason people do the katana is for the one you get in BG2 that utterly destroys anything it's allowed to touch.

http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate2/weapons/katanas.html

Look down at Celestial Fury.

*EDIT* Oh, and the drakon zerths blade (SP) which gets you more mage memorizations (katana)

Renulan

Also: here's everything you need to know, it's a really great BG2 build.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/strategies/kensaimage.php

ZanathKariashi

The Celestial Fury is a POS...as I said, only useful for a SoA-Only Backstabbing thief.

Renulan

If by POS you mean ultimate cheese weapon, yeah. Besides the few immune creatures, (not many) I felt like the game was too easy, the second you hit someone their perma stunned and dead.

Renulan

The only problem was later on when creatures were immune, but that was quite later.

sandmanCCL

LOL @ weapons discussions.

Gimme daggers and I'll ruin things. Gimme clubs and I'll ruin things. The best of the best weapons are all so ridiculous, who cares about "DPS"? It's not world of warcraft. You don't get an award for beating Yaga-Shura a round earlier than someone who doesn't like flails.

@zhitbox: The level cap is too low to really make use of Kensai/Dual builds in general. Ideally you'd want to hit at least level 7 for the extra attack per round, but doing so means you won't regain fighter levels til you hit the XP cap, pretty much.

Shrimp

"Few creatures immune"? Well, if you mean "immune to +3 or less", there's not a whole bunch, I agree. However, there's way too many things immune to stun: every undead (not that annoying for the most part), every troll, dragons...

That being said, CF is still godly, especially against golems (yeah, golems are weak to stun, as they have horrible saving throws) and most humanoid things.

sandmanCCL

Celestial Fury's stun goes through stun immunity many creatures have, by the way. It's easily the most broken weapon in the entire saga.

It's a shame the "most powerful" katana wasn't that great.

Renulan

I was just arguing the weapon wasn't a POS, and far from it.. not garbage wow dps O.o

zhitbox

Appropriate to play a pure class kensai with the intent of duel classing in BG2-EE (which I assume would increase the level cap making kensai/mage viable). How exactly does the save import feature work, are you reset back to level 1 or does everything transfer? Let’s assume I played a kensai through BG-EE and reached the level cap of 15. Would my transferred character in BG2-EE also be level 15?

sandmanCCL

@Renulan: I'm on your side. I'm more laughing at the guy saying it's a "POS weapon" when it clearly is not. People who are all "ZOMG FLAIL OF AGES ONLY WEAPON WORTH USING" I find obnoxious and annoying. Every last weapon type is viable and awesome in their own way. Every single one of them.

ZanathKariashi

I call it a POS, because from personal experience it is. It's never performed as well as everyone says it does, it almost never stuns anything, I've never seen anything fail the stun save except an enemy I could chunk in one blow anyway, and hardly ever hits with the extra damage proc (again, usually on enemies I chunked anyway). Sure, throw a doom and GM on something and I could see it being on the OP side, but the last few years have been mostly solo runs, and it simply doesn't perform well in those conditions.

I did use it for awhile after the lack luster results since it seemed like a decent BS weapon for my party theif, till I realized the blade of roses deals more consistent damage (strictly speaking the CF deals more maximum, but the blade of roses deals more minimum, and minimum is king for BS) and is much easier to acquire (and the +2 charisma is a nice touch).

CaptRory

The Flail of Ages is my favorite weapon, because it hits a lot of my favorites.

1) It's Cool. It has a neat effect and you assemble it in pieces.

2) It does all kinds of damage types. I LOVE weapons and attacks that do multiple damage types.

3) I love flails and maces.

That said I'm considering a Half-Orc Kensai that uses Halberds. Thoughts?

ZanathKariashi

I don't really see any problems outright, though there aren't really all that many to choose from..but they are one of those quality over quantity deals, so you do end up with some nice stuff.

I like the flail cause I never have to change weapons (nothing is immune to blunt and A LOT of stuff are weak to it, it kills all varieties of trolls with issues, ...except magic golems of course, but there's only 2 of those in the whole game so they don't really count since they screw over ALL magical weapons), and the slow has no save and effects EVERYTHING (setting the enemies attack speed to 10 is just as good as a stun since you'll hit the enemy 9 times before they can hit once..the majority don't make it past 4 hits...or less for a single class, solo kensai), except for the handful of +4 only enemies (though I generally use IMoD on those...since it's basically instant death anyway) (or never after I got the mod to let Cromwell make some of the watcher's keep items that required no ToB-only materials). I just wish the +5 version didn't have free action...it utterly ruins the weapon, so I never go that high, despite the ridiculous damage it does.

sandmanCCL

@CaptRory: Sounds unique. Therefore, I vote yes.

CaptRory

It's been a long time~ Will A kensai have enough weapon proficiencies to Grandmaster more than one weapon type? Doesn't matter if it has to go with the same weapon style or not. So "Yes but only if they're both two handed weapons" or "Only if you're dual wielding them" still counts.

ZanathKariashi

You should end up with about 16 prof points in total, GM in 3 weapons (preferably 2hded weapons) and * in two-handed weapon style for the crit bonus.

You could GM 2 1hders and high master another and two weapon with **...or GM three and suffer a minor main hand penalty from only * two weapon style.

CaptRory

Nice, thanks. I actually rolled this guy. Ricven the Half-Orc Kensai.

19
18
19
11
6
18

** Two Handed Style
** Halberds

Are there any two handed axes? I'm thinking axes would be a nice proficiency to take for the throwing axes so I have a ranged attack. If I want a 2h Dagger it'd have to have been made for a giant hahaha.

ZanathKariashi

Nah, all axes are 1handed. How about a dagger as strong as a bastard sword? And ON FIRE!?...actually now that I think about it...that's almost what you were joking about. Firetooth (dagger) (returning, 2d4 +3 +1d2 fire damage, can also be used as melee) But not till the sequel.

CaptRory

Haha, I remember that. Nice. Something to keep in mind for later.

zhitbox

Limited by level cap would it be more appropriate to not duel class a kensai at all (finish the game as a kensai pure). What implications would this have in a export to BGEE-2. Is your level reset (assuming a begun the game at level 15 i would be too far leveled to duel-class).

ZanathKariashi

Considering there should be no legitimate way (without modding) to go above 161,000 xp, it's not really an issue....8 would be the highest you could achieve, unless you used a xp cap remover..in which case you could just go ahead and hit lvl 9 and dual to a mage. Though unless you're solo, or rest-grind xp in certain places, you might actually run out of xp sources before getting the abilities back. And doing a Kensai at 7 is inferior to a vanilla fighter (additional restrictions), inferior to the berserker (higher damage, immunities, laughable restrictions), and multi-class would also be more powerful. You really need that extra hit of class abilities at 9 to even compete.

The only reason you won't dual in BG1 is cause of the xp cap making it impossible to hit 9 fighter and then hit 10 mage.

ZanathKariashi

Considering there should be no legitimate way (without modding/cheats) to go above 161,000 xp, it's not really an issue....8 would be the highest you could achieve, unless you used a xp cap remover..in which case you could just go ahead and hit lvl 9 and dual to a mage. Though unless you're solo, or rest-grind xp in certain places you might actually run out of xp sources before getting the abilities back.

The only reason you won't dual in BG1 is cause of the xp cap making it impossible to hit 9 fighter and then hit 10 mage.

Tome

Bringing up the katana debate again, if you don't mind modding, there is a ToB-focused mod that upgrades Celestial Fury to a +5 weapon, and another that upgrades the Zerth Katana to +4. That makes both contenders for the best weapon in the game (and makes the Zerth Katana hands down the best/cheesiest weapon for fighter mages). I can't remember the name of the latter, but the Celestial Fury upgrade is in Weimer's Upgrade Pack.

Renulan

CF would be way too OP... It already is OP as is. O.o

ZanathKariashi

Item mods aren't really needed to be honest..I've never found a good one. The items are always retardedly overpowered compared to the unmodded game, which is saying A LOT since the unmodded game already has retardedly OP items.

raywind

These weapon conversations are a bit idiotic... everyone likes different weapon some go for style so katanas and daggers some go for damage. BUT personally i think the best weapon is Staff of the magi.

Tome

To be honest, the upgraded CF is no more 'retardedly overpowered' than Staff of the Magi or the Flail Of Ages...on the other hand, the Zerth Blade stomps all over everything if you have a class that can make use of it.

Shrimp

I never liked the Zerth Blade to be honest. I usually switch weapons quite a bit depending on the situation, so losing those extra spells each time would be pretty annoying. I only ever played a kensage in a solo game however (so I needed to switch to any fire/acid weapon to kill trolls, or Crom for bashing a few locks open), so I guess any fighter/mage dual or multi would get more use out of it in a party setting.

On the CF: upgrading it to +5 is hardly "overpowered". Having +2 damage doesn't make much difference, and going from +3 to +5 makes it able to hit the 5 enemies in the whole game needing +4 or more (from memory: both demilichs, demogorgon, the demon in Ust-Nasha - you don't even fight him, and ToB's final boss). Would you have said it was overpowered if it only became +4?