Half Orc's too powerful?
Bill
Member Posts: 18
I created a Half Orc Barbarian,
and....he has a 19 strength and 19 con.
17 hp at level one...
19 Strength! plus specialization...23 strength with rage!
Will his somewhat lackluster AC keep him in check?
and....he has a 19 strength and 19 con.
17 hp at level one...
19 Strength! plus specialization...23 strength with rage!
Will his somewhat lackluster AC keep him in check?
1
Comments
Half-Orcs are definitely overpowered in BG1, their disadvantage affects nothing they can be, and they combine the best advantage possible, +Str with the Dwarf bonus of +Con. It was ok for BG2 since they couldn't be imported from BG1, and thus couldn't benefit from all the stat tomes a BG1 veteran character could get.
You would only be something other than a Half-Orc to either be a class they can't be, or because you really want the shorty save bonuses.
This is all well and good, but not necessarily an end-all be-all. Dwarves get some rather excellent specific bonuses that help them in the warrior category. For that matter, elves get some goodies (sleep resistance).
I do like the ½ Orc a lot. I don't think that they are the 'only' good choice, however.
Str +1 is heinously powerful particularly for non-Fighter classes, and it's not much worse for Fighter classes since few have the patience to roll for 18/00 Str, which is the only value that gives the same THAC0 as 19 Str. They copy the +1 Con Dwarves get without the Dex penalty(limiting their AC until the tome) or the Cha penalty(seriously why? Dwarves more repulsive than Half-Orcs?).
The shorty save bonuses are good, but they don't add up to -1 Str -1 Dex -2 Cha versus Half-Orcs. The Thief skill bonuses that Half-Orcs miss out on are only relevant if you're actually a Thief, and they're only particularly large for Halfings specifically, who lose yet another point of Strength versus Half-Orcs, limiting them to a +1 THAC0 bonus from strength even if they're a Fighter, and having the massive power/accuracy of 19 Str as a backstabbing Thief is better than the thieving bonuses in the long run, even though the Str bonus damage is merely added rather than multiplied: it's good enough and the THAC0 bonus to ensure the backstab actually hits is the real winner. It's also worth noting that while 19 Con is only +1 HP/level and only for Fighters, with the tome it's 20 Con which gives you lesser regeneration, you will pretty much fully heal when resting for 8 hours or traveling between areas.
It's not diversity if the choice is made for you.
Sure, in game you can make a super overpowered character due to point buying. I personally think the BG character creation process is flawed because it's encourages people min/maxing, which I hate.
If you just accepted the roll you get, or maybe re-roll a couple times and don't point buy, characters are not overpowered. I also changed the difficult to core rules and accept the default HP rolls (I actually don't even look at it). The game is much more challenging and more fun.
Point of the rant is, change the way you play, and characters won't be overpowered.
viable? yes. strong? oh yeah. OP? let the humans have that.
EDITED: for typos.
I consider the saving throw bonuses massive. True they matter less for a barabarian/berserker who can get a suite of immunities, but most classes can't. If your objective in a frontliner is to soak up the aggro then a dwarf is a better choice. A dwarf will succumb to less status effects and take half damage from spells more often. Early game there's no question that the half-orc will hit hardest by a long way when unbuffed. But late game after the strength tome, +5 to saves far outweighs 1 damage point.
I also consider halfling thieving bonuses massive. Ignoring pickpockets, a 19 dex halfling has 60 more thieving points than a 18 dex half-orc. That's over two levels worth for a vanilla or swashbuckler, three levels worth for a bounty hunter and four levels worth for an assassin. Essentially this allows you to be effective in one more skill than you would be able to be otherwise. Later in the game, thac0 is less of an issue with the Gauntlets of Ogre Power (although the half orc will half the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise).
After you pick up all the tomes, I'd much rather have a dwarf. The saving throw bonuses are too great to ignore.
Half orcs weren't really constructed for BG1 (like kits). Archer kit is almost unstoppable in BG for me so far (drops mages like flies). We'll see as it goes on.
Precisely what is uncool about Cleric/Thief? That will always be my favorite multiclass, followed by Fighter/Cleric and Fighter/Thief.. hey the ones Half-Orcs can do! The inherent conflict between arcane casting and armor blunts the attractiveness of those multiclasses to me, Fighter/Mage/Thief is the only one of them I really like because of it's versatility.
The difference between 18/00 and 19 is small, but 18/00 is very hard to get generally, I don't rest often so anything that requires a spell is much less valuable overall. Gauntlets of Ogre Might are great but for every naturally strong character I have I can pass them over and reserve the gauntlets for someone who truly needs them, like Montaron, Viconia, or Xan. Not to mention naturally being that strong lets you use Bracers of Weapon Mastery, or similar items.
It's true that the tome makes this mostly moot, but that tome comes later in the game than you might remember. I tend to treat the Candlekeep events as the endgame point-of-no-return: when all the sidequests are done and it's time to blitz Sarevok's plan once and for all. The Con tome on the other hand is one of the first quests I do, is pretty easy and good XP for a new party, and as someone who rests very infrequently, maybe only 10-15 times across the entire playthrough, the regeneration's effect when I do rest and more importantlywhen traveling between areas is priceless.
It's also worth noting that least in the way BG1 vanilla handled it, the shorty saves were pretty minor if you weren't at least part Cleric or Fighter, it was based on the beefiest class you had. +4 for Fighters, +3 for Clerics, +2 for Rogues +1 for Mages, take the highest for multi-classes. Good for Fighter/X and Cleric/Thief or Cleric/Illusionist, not so much for Illusionist/Thieves or many single class characters.
In bg2, the best ac armor was either the shadow dragon armor or the grandmaster leather armor in tob. It provides an ac of 1. Combine with innate dex bonus, 2 rings of gaax, the cloak of sewer, helm of balduran and a nice shield, the half-orc can get AC up to -14. Also, mirror image and stoneskin is available from a weapon and the boot of gargoyle.
not really arguing, cos, you know, each after his own playstyle, but personally I dislike cleric/thieves. they lack proper backstabbing (staffs? erm...), and they seem a little too mismash for my personal tastes. fighter/cleric is nice, but ranger/cleric is nicer (ironskins! eventually), or dual fighter 3-> cleric, who can easily get to the point in BG1 that they're outdamaging F/C multis (actually just a bit behind fighters), and have way better spell prigression. F/T however... okay, I heart Monty, but FMTs beat the hell out of them coolness wise. (though BGEE's xp cap is not kind on them)
18/00 is next to impossible to get, but 18/50+ is not... and the strength spell last *hours* iirc.
regen from CON is nice, but DUHM can give you the same effect, though that's somewhat exploity.