Archer weapon
Sarius
Member Posts: 24
What ranged weapon should I specialize in as an archer? I'm looking toward the future as in most effective ranged weapon I can acquire (Not only for bg1 but carried over characters into sod and bg2.) Overall, what do you think would benefit me the most?
0
Comments
In Baldur's Gate 1, composite longbows are better than their short counterparts.
However, in BG2 the most powerful bows are shortbows.
If you intend to solo the game, then you should pick up shortbows. Don't worry about it, you'll do just fine with a shortbow in BG1.
On the other hand, if you're playing with several casters - such as M/T - or thieves that can only use shortbows, then it might be a good idea to let them have the best shortbows and stick to longbows yourself.
It's also worth mentioning that there's an excellent crossbow in BG2 available early on in Watcher's Keep. Until you get it, you could stick to the crossbow of speed which is great. That's a decent proficiency you can take as well, especially if you have partners who are suited to use longbows like Minsc in addition to M/T or thieves that can use shortbows only.
In the end, it's all about item management.
Over the course of your career as an archer, you're going to want:
1) At least specialization, and then progression towards Grandmastery in your weapon of choice.
2) Proficiency in at least one melee weapon, possibly 2.
3) Additional pips in other weapons that might be very useful to you.
1) In BG1, longbows are the best ranged weapons for archers, followed by shortbows and crossbows (the latter is really true only if you get the Army Scythe Light Crossbow of Speed, because otherwise the extra APR from the shortbow dominates over crossbow's extra damage).
In BG2, shortbows are generally the best ranged weapons for archers,, because of their APR and the early availability of one that adds an extra APR and another later that adds a solid amount of damage. Crossbows can almost keep up only with the Light Crossbow of Speed or the one Simulacre mentioned at Watchers Keep. If you're collecting the pantaloons throughout the games, crossbows get ridiculously good all the way at the end of ToB, as well. Oddly enough, once you have Greater Whirlwinds available, Slings can be a good backup weapon- there's one that autogenerates +4 ammunition, +5 once you upgrade it in ToB for the few enemies who need +5 to hit, and GWW sets your APR to 10.
2) You're going to want a melee weapon, both for the times you get caught in melee and for when your run into enemies immune to piercing damage. Staffs probably make the most sense- not too many NPCs are going to like them, but there are some very good ones. They also do Crushing damage, so they can hit Clay Golems, and they're wood, so they don't break. Halberds are also interesting, for the same reason.
You're going to get 4 pips at level 1, but can't go beyond 2 in any weapon. You also get 1 more every 3 levels. Because of that, you can't get GM before level 9 at all. Mastery and High Mastery do add THAC0 and damage, but to me GM is the real goal, and its primary point is in BG2 (you likely won't hit 300,000 xp until SoD). So I'd tend to go with shortbows, or crossbows as Simulacre said (note- both the LCOS and Shortbow +2 are available for purchase early, if you can scrape the gold together). If you're willing to generally forgo longbows, you can go with 2 pips in shortbow or crossbow at level 1, along with maybe 1 in staff and one in something else (maybe slings). Then advance towards grandmastery in that weapon at levels 3, 6, and 9. At level 12 in SoA, you can start (or I guess finish, if you added one pip at level 1) adding pips to slings in preparation for ToB. If you went with shortbows and happen to be collecting pantaloons at that point, feel free to start adding to crossbows.
I don't know SoD very well, but iirc its not very different, with composite bows being slightly better, but frankly the +2 shortbow from BG1 is probably good enough anyways, especially with an archer. I played through SoD with a shortbow using Swashbuckler, who was quite devastating. I never felt gimped, and I didn't even use very many of the high power arrows. An Archer would be substantially better than a Swashbuckler at archery, so again, shortbow won't feel weak by any means.
Regarding crossbows, arrows in BG1 especially have wwwaaayyy better ammo options. Its not even close, much as I like crossbows, they stink compared to bows. In BG2, bows still have better options, though there are some good stunning bolts tbh. Crossbows are quite decent in SoA, but there are no bolts of disspelling afaik, and thats a pretty handy effect to have access to.
In BG2:EE, Shortbos for Tuigan/Gesen reasons.
Always you will be told about the fantastic shortbows in BG2. I don't disagree but, when you are super vulnerable in early BG, that's when you need the best bow you can get more than at any other time.
Plus, as an archer you will be doing a lot of damage and if you swap to a shortbow, even with just one pip, you will still do a lot of damage.
For melee longsword is ok. Varscona is an early pick in BG1 and there are good longswords in BG2 and you'll build another grandmastery along the way anyway. Hammers are another very good choise with easy good early weapon and really good stuff later on (EDIT: bonus points for dwarf for the +3 throwing hammer in BG2). Nothing wrong with shortswords either for the very same reasons. Getting a +2 weapon quick is not that important though, you can really use whatever you wish but there are some weapon categories I've always felt are a bit weak.
If I had to pick one thing to get into grandmastery I'd pick Axes if your char has good strength. You get both a melee and a ranged option in the same category. Others can shoot bows while you can do a lot of damage with your throws. You can get your first +1 axe in Feldepost inn and if you turn a throwing axe into melee mode you have an unbreakable axe until you reach that point (and can afford it).
BG2 continues the axe goodness, with Stonefire available right out of the starting dungeon and killing trolls dead, then Azuredge +3 which is basically a ranged mace of disruption and loves to one-shot liches. At end game, you can get Axe of the Unyielding +6, a vorpal axe with crazy HP regen.
In short, axes may not have the super flashy Celestial Furies or Carsomyrs, but they are consistently good across the entire series for just about any martial play style.
Who are you hitting with Bala's Axe? Honest question. I rarely do Durlag's tower as I don't like that place at all but if I do I've pretty much completed the rest of the game at that point and there aren't really any hostile mages left to hit with it
To go a bit deeper in the axe thougts I do have to disagree with axes being awesome in BG2 though. Unless you side with Bodhi your throwing axe will be limited to +2 variant until late TOB and that's ok against most enemies. Only really starts to matter if no one else in your parties can handle iron and adamant golems from range (I don't remember what else requires +3, Kangaxx was +4 which you won't reach with axes anyway).
It's just that the melee ones aren't spectacular either. You just have 2 different +2 axes both which only have extra elemental damage. That's almost as basic as it gets. They'll get the job done but they aren't spectacular by any means and neither is Unyielding until TOB where you get to upgrade it. Unyielding is also buried pretty deep inside the Keep so it's not something you can just go casually pick up somewhat early
Their general melee + ranged package still works but since you'll be building another mastery quite likely during BG2 you can also make the switch to another melee weapon type there and just keep the throwing axe handy for when you want to use that.
The best thing about Stonefire and Frost Reaver both is that their extra elemental damages hit through magical protections (at least in the original they did, I haven't played BG2EE yet). Or at least I think they did. It's pretty nice when you interrupt a big cast with it. Frost reaver I think counts 2 separate hits because of it's 2 different elements making the interrupt more likely. There are other weapons types that can achieve this too.
Also I somehow remembered the melee axes being +2 but yeah, they are indeed +3. I need to get through SOD so I can play BG2 again... Axes in BG2 are still pretty average in my eyes. Early pick is nice admittedly but that's what you're stuck with for the rest of the game
Azuredge is a definite winner pick for axes in BG2 though. I can't believe I forgot that thing!
Firetooth > Tasheron's and Gesen
(since it generates +4/+5 bolts)
Wall of text below explains the reasons, but basically, if you're using the best ammunition (Acid Arrows, Bolts of Lightning, Bullets +4):
*At low levels, Tuigan is great
*When Haste is assumed, Gesen and Firetooth trade blows, with Tuigan behind.
*When Improved Haste is assumed, Gesen is superior to Firetooth, and both are superior to Tuigan IF they have Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization. If not, Tuigan beats Firetooth and maybe Gesen.
*When Greater Whirlwind is assumed, Firetooth with Scorcher Ammunition>Errine Sling> Firetooth> Gesen> Tuigan. That's true even given the 2 pip limitation on slings- your main loss is with APR, and GWW completely shifts that calculation.
First of all, you never want to use the auto generated ammo unless you're forced to due to enchantment level- the autogenerating weapons (Firetooth and Gesen) deal more damage because they add the extra damage stuff on top of the ammunition bonuses. So Acid Arrows are preferable on the shortbows, and Lightning Bolts on the crossbows. The latter gets somewhat less effective as you level up, because enemies start making their saves much more often on the lightning damage.
Firetooth will outdamage the shortbows per shot, there's no question about that. The question comes in when you consider APR. At lower levels (before Improved Haste comes along regularly), a Hasted Firetooth user will win the damage contest, since that adds to your APR, though obviously that's going to depend on how long your day is and how much fatigue you're willing to put up with. Once Improved Haste comes along regularly (meaning that you're not using Haste), Tuigan and Firetooth will trade blows- Firetooth will win if their save is terrible, Tuigan will win if their save is high or if the Firetooth user doesn't have Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization- an improved hasted tuigan user with grandmastery in shortbows hits 10 apr at level 13, whereas the Firetooth user is significantly lower without the gauntlets. My personal preference there is more APR, for Called Shot effects, for breaking down Stoneskin, and for not expending excess damage on a dead enemy, but that's obviously open to argument.
With Haste available, Gesen will beat Tuigan marginally, and probably lose to Firetooth. With Improved Haste, Gesen should beat Firetooth, and will beat Tuigan provided that it has the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization (otherwise it's close).
Once Greater Whirlwind is available, Firetooth wins, because APR is 10 for everyone. It's worth noting, though, than the Errine Sling with Bullets +4 will actually beat all of them in that case, because its APR disadvantage is eliminated. Unless, that is, you have Scorcher Ammunition from the Big Metal Unit (we're talking end of ToB here)- it can be used on Firetooth, and counts as hitting twice, so it is effectively 20 APR and blows everything else out of the water.