@Kharador I dont think you are threatning here on anyone, if dont want it dont buy it, you also want baldurs gate:EE at a low price, and after that you want them to release DLC For FREE, or dont make them at all. for a second I thought maybe Beamdog is a company made of volunteers, and not a financial company ( which new products such a new BG DEPENDS on theire income )
Trent who is behind all of this project even said "Content-wise, I think most people will be pretty happy with what we produce."
I 100% Trust him! I Dont remeber that the developers of DA:O or Mess Effect even bothered themselfs to participate in a forum and hear theire customers opinions about DLC.
@TrentOster I have a few questions and concerns. So if DLC will help keep the cost of the iPad version down, will you charge a bit more for the Mac/PC version and include more of the DLC? Probably not but I thought that I'd ask.
on another note, my guess is that we will have to buy the DLC multiple times, once for the Mac/PC and once for the iPad. A bit of an annoyance, but if the DLC add-ons are ¢99 to $2 each, it would be more tolerable to buy it multiple times.
It's just like I mentioned in my first comment on this discussion, the price is being set at $10 due to the iPad app market, which is something that does annoy me somewhat, but I understand that it's a big part of the anticipated sales of this game.
@Kharador I don't think those kinds of comments are constructive in any way, we should be grateful to have a forum like this where we can actually give some input into this game as it's being made, and actually have conversations concerning content, etc. with the developers. There's not much incentive to the devs to continue involving themselves in a community like this if people are going to go off the handle whenever something that they want isn't put into the game. The bottom line is, they're the game developers, it's their call; and if the final game is that much of an affront to you, then you probably just won't buy it. This forum should be used for the constructive purposes of presenting your ideas, not making inappropriate comments to the devs that are trying to breathe new life into an old game that we all love...
I´m getting tired of the negative vibes where every positive aspect is immediately stomped on. Thats demotivating and just trolling. We here as the customer/ community shouldnt try to "dictate" how their game has to be and if it doesnt stop I fear for my modplans in terms of support too...
@TrentOster I have a few questions and concerns. So if DLC will help keep the cost of the iPad version down, will you charge a bit more for the Mac/PC version and include more of the DLC? Probably not but I thought that I'd ask.
I'm wondering that myself. Because It would feel bad to have to pay more for the same contents... unless the PC version will already have a built in bonus compared to the Ipad version
For some people, DLC means that the company is cutting content and then charging it extra as DLC. For me, it's just wrong to start thinking like that. Bad DLC means something you feel is a rip off. However you don't have to buy it in the first place if you think it's a ripoff, whereas if this was included in the game you would have no choice but to pay for something you don't like anyway.
DLC could also mean that the company wants to continue to involve themselves with the game, and we appreciate this effort of them by buying DLC, with the option not to download something we don't like.
I don't know what to think about DLC for Baldur's Gate myself apart from, "depends on the DLC".
For example i would probably buy DLC since it gives me the option to enrich my experience with the game. Since i buy the game at 10$ (or something like that), why not pay another 10 for some DLC? I was expecting a 20-30 price anyway.
I would also buy DLC with new armor skins for characters, something that "ups" the visual experience of the game, but would be optional for those that don't want anything to change for the game in the art style. This would be a more minor DLC i guess but i would still hit it.
The really annoying thing though is the iPad version and its price, basically allowing you to assume or speculate that maybe the iPad version was more important to them than the PC one, and thus they focused their development on that mostly. We'll have to wait and see for that though.
I would also buy DLC with new armor skins for characters, something that "ups" the visual experience of the game, but would be optional for those that don't want anything to change for the game in the art style. This would be a more minor DLC i guess but i would still hit it.
New character models that look like high resolution BG1 animations with dual-wielding would be a 200% sure buy for me. Like, day-and-date with the release - no need to think about it.
@Tanthalas read the post of Trent again and later read my answer. That's not the question. He justifies the DLC with the problem of selling the game on Ipad. I'm the one who reads that? OMG!!!
Baldur's Gate Enhaced Edition means: the same ol' Baldur's Gate with a few existent mods (another version of BG Trilogy, THE SAME) with a new paid DLC for "possible loss of money" just for the mess of ipad? And as a fan I have to look this good? Sorry it's assumed that this is a forum to express my opinion freely and they have lost a fan who had very high expectations.
on another note, my guess is that we will have to buy the DLC multiple times, once for the Mac/PC and once for the iPad. A bit of an annoyance, but if the DLC add-ons are ¢99 to $2 each, it would be more tolerable to buy it multiple times.
I don't know what Overhaul's plans for this are.
On one hand, if you have a game that is on the PC, 360 and PS3, you do have to buy DLC for each version.
But I think I have read that for the PS3 and Vita, for games that support transfarring (sp?) you only have to buy the DLC once.
Not sure how Mac and iPad games work. Do iPad games work on Macs?
DLCs have been a controversial topic from the very beginning, and by todays standards DLCs are a ripoff, thats a matter of fact. You pay between 10-20% of the original game's value for a roughly 5% increase in gameplay. Sure there have been a couple of good DLCs, but the majority are a big joke. Sometimes you pay like ten dollars for mere 5 hours of gameplay, and those DLCs are still top notch by their own standards, but compared to a full scale expansion it is still overpriced, and a ripoff. DLCs open up a new way to develop games further, I won't deny that, but seeing how many bad DLCs are on the market and only a couple are used that way, you shouldn't wonder why some are uncomfortable with them.
Edit: A major problem with DLCs nowadays are actually people, who willingly get ripped off.
@Tanthalas read the post of Trent again and later read my answer. That's not the question.
Baldur's Gate Enhaced Edition means: the same ol' Baldur's Gate with a few existent mods (another version of BG Trilogy, THE SAME) with a new paid DLC for "possible loss of money" just for the mess of ipad? And as a fan I have to look this good? Sorry it's assumed that this is a forum to express my opinion freely and they have lost a fan who had very high expectations.
BGEE will include the original BG1, TotSC, and two new adventures. Those two adventures are content that do not come from existant mods.
The game engine and the user interface is also being improved, improving loading times and fixing problems with the BG2 GUI that mods currently, also cannot change.
As a fan you don't have to look at the iPad price as something good, but you also don't have to look at it as something bad. Look at the example that I already posted, the price is irrelevant if you'll end up paying the same in the end for all the content. Your reason for complaining isn't exactly reasonable or fair.
The Overhaul guys have bills to pay too, so I won't criticize them for trying to make money as long as its a fair deal for their customers too. And to see if the deal is fair for everyone we first have to see what this DLC actually is, the content it will contain and the price that they'll be asking for it.
Being able to express your opinion freely doesn't mean that you can post anything that you want. Constructive criticism is one thing, complaints that are starting to verge on misinformation and whining is another.
@Tanthalas you are wrong. You said: "BGEE will include the original BG1, TotSC, and two new adventures. Those two adventures are content that don't come from existant mods." I know so what? where you find my misinformation on what I said? Improve a game that has existed since 1999, with no improved real gameplay, does launch 1 free DLCs with a fixed price for make money from the fans doesn't seem an improvement. Furthermore it's apparent in the arguments of Trent that they have been forced to get the DLC to launch the game cheaper for ipad.
For me UI improving isn't a great overhaul sorry...
@Kharador it´s good to have you in their office looking over the devs shoulder telling us it´s just the UI that makes the EE you know! you are spreading informations based on your "own" assumption thats all.
Seriously guys what is the matter with bashing Kharador? He raised a valid point. Don't try to read anything between the lines, its written text in a forum, so no facial expression and voice is involved.
@Tanthalas you are wrong. You said: BGEE will include the original BG1, TotSC, and two new adventures. Those two adventures are content that don't come from existant mods. I know so what? where you find my misinformation on what I said?
@Kharador The misinformation comes from when you say:
Baldur's Gate Enhaced Edition means: the same ol' Baldur's Gate with a few existent mods (another version of BG Trilogy, THE SAME)
BGEE will have new content that does not come existent mods. It will also feature game engine and GUI improvements that also do not come form existent mods.
Improve a game that has existed since 1999 does launch 2 DLCs with a fixed price for make money from the fans doesn't seem an improvement. Furthermore it's apparent in the arguments of Trent that they have been forced to get the DLC to launch the game cheaper for ipad.
First let me make something clear, I am not a part of Overhaul and I have no idea of their plans for DLC. That 2 DLC number is just an example to make explaining my argument easier.
And again Kharador, look at my example:
1. BGEE costs 10$ DLC1 costs X$ DLC2 costs X$
and
2. BGEE already includes DLC1 and DLC2 and costs 10+X+X$
Why is example 1 so much worse than example 2 when you end up paying the SAME amount of money? Until they say otherwise, the PC, Mac and iPad versions are supposed to have the same price.
For me UI improving isn't a great overhaul sorry...
And you are entitled to your opinion. But if I start seeing widespread and unreasonable whining about BGEE I will start deleting posts.
I disagree that he's making a valid point because he's making assumptions about BGEE and this potential DLC without knowing the content or the price of these items.
Its fair to criticize a finalized product, its entirely unreasonable to condemn a product without actually knowing its content just because iPads "are a mess" and DLC is "evil".
@Kharador it´s good to have you in their office looking over the devs shoulder telling us...
Isn't this what you were saying? Witty sarcastic comments are completely out of place in a forum and in an internet chat in general. He might be overly aggressive now, but because some people jumped on him. This is the negative vibe, that turns threads into flamefests.
@Tanthalas No offense Tanthalas but criticizing plans is valid and reasonable. But we really should stop discussing this matter, or it might get out of hand.
Ok, NWN_babaYaga should dial down the sarcasm a bit too. But Kharador's aggressiveness isn't justified by any attacks directed at him, more so when he's been responding to me and I believe that my responses to him have been civilized.
@Tanthalas :"BGEE will have new content that does not come existent mods. It will also feature game engine and GUI improvements that also do not come form existent mods." Wait... new content is one more big quest with a new NPC and UI improvement. I agree to pay for this new content and for those few improvements for the price that Trent said at the beginning (10 € approximately). But still saying that your example has nothing to do with what I say. Look it's the last time I'll explain.
recreation: Trent: we must create dlc's to earn more money through the fans. Ok! we can say that is for the holy mess of the iPad (coincidentally ALWAYS the cost is less in apple store). Ok!!! hypnotic post!! (obviously kidding)
I understand you position but I think that i'm more sceptic.
@Tanthalas No offense Tanthalas but criticizing plans is valid and reasonable. But we really should stop discussing this matter, or it might get out of hand.
@geselle Do you think criticizing plans that none of us know anything about is valid and reasonable? Sorry, but I disagree.
But I do agree that continuing with this might get out of hand, so if you want to keep discussing this with me send me a message.
Wait... new content is one more quest with a new NPC.
What Trent has already confirmed is two new adventures (no one knows how big these will be), one new NPC and one new Kit.
recreation: Trent: we must create dlc's to earn more money through the fans. Ok! we can say that is for the holy mess of the iPad (coincidentally ALWAYS the cost is less in apple store). Ok!!!
And if they continue to support BGEE by offering new content you think that's bad? If this DLC is new stuff in addition to what he already confirmed for BGEE is that so wrong? As for the price, we just have to wait and see, its pointless for either of us to be speculating about it.
And stop insulting the iPad, there's no need for it and its starting to get annoying (and you might hurt the iPad's feelings).
I think the point Kharador tries to make is that, what matters is not whether or not this "new content" can be presented by existing mods. Of course it can't, since it's something different.
But new questlines and NPCs can be achieved by mods, so basically what i understand from him is that : "You're not doing anything that much different from modders".
It all comes down again to what we expect individually from this enhanced edition. I understand that it is not a finished product so we don't know exactly what happens, but you have to understand that this "hype" was not something the fans made, and as they find out more and more things about the game that are not being enhanced, well they feel less and less excited about this "enhancement" (enchantment!?).
Enhance = improving, making something better Enchant = putting some spell on something to change its appearence, physical attributes and so on. Might seem offtopic: who thinks the new character is gonna be a lawful evil monk of bhaal, that follows you until the very end as your advisor?
What i think it's about is that people,myself included, got overhyped and hoped for some changes they considered basic, which are not happening.
Add all the events together, and since it does seem (for the moment) that the enhancement at least for the pc isn't so "huge", they get upset.
If they declare their opinions on the forum and everyone jumps at them, well... you know. It's just that, sometimes indeed we sound aggressive and i can understand it when i re-read some of my posts for example, then again sometimes you get labeled random names just because you express a different opinion which is... meh
If written text sounds/feels aggressive depends on your own mood. If someone says you are an idiot, his following messages will appear more aggressive to you, because you are slightly angered. A simple answer like "not today" can have a serious difference depending on your mood.
Well I say let's wait for the actual game. I'am no fan of ipad as I told you, if ipad forces any change on the pc version I'll probably be almost as angry as kharador so I can understand him, but i won't be that extreme. There is good dlc for some games out there, like fo: new vegas and it's a viable way of having fans happily spending some more. I would like a complete edition not the 10$ ipad without x dlcs, when a game has 30 dlcs but 25 of them are weapons (example) it gets a bit irritating. ps. actually apple is the evil and dlc the "mess".
Comments
for a second I thought maybe Beamdog is a company made of volunteers, and not a financial company ( which new products such a new BG DEPENDS on theire income )
Trent who is behind all of this project even said "Content-wise, I think most people will be pretty happy with what we produce."
I 100% Trust him! I Dont remeber that the developers of DA:O or Mess Effect even bothered themselfs to participate in a forum and hear theire customers opinions about DLC.
nobody force you to purchase anything.
on another note, my guess is that we will have to buy the DLC multiple times, once for the Mac/PC and once for the iPad. A bit of an annoyance, but if the DLC add-ons are ¢99 to $2 each, it would be more tolerable to buy it multiple times.
@Kharador I don't think those kinds of comments are constructive in any way, we should be grateful to have a forum like this where we can actually give some input into this game as it's being made, and actually have conversations concerning content, etc. with the developers. There's not much incentive to the devs to continue involving themselves in a community like this if people are going to go off the handle whenever something that they want isn't put into the game. The bottom line is, they're the game developers, it's their call; and if the final game is that much of an affront to you, then you probably just won't buy it. This forum should be used for the constructive purposes of presenting your ideas, not making inappropriate comments to the devs that are trying to breathe new life into an old game that we all love...
For some people, DLC means that the company is cutting content and then charging it extra as DLC. For me, it's just wrong to start thinking like that. Bad DLC means something you feel is a rip off. However you don't have to buy it in the first place if you think it's a ripoff, whereas if this was included in the game you would have no choice but to pay for something you don't like anyway.
DLC could also mean that the company wants to continue to involve themselves with the game, and we appreciate this effort of them by buying DLC, with the option not to download something we don't like.
I don't know what to think about DLC for Baldur's Gate myself apart from, "depends on the DLC".
For example i would probably buy DLC since it gives me the option to enrich my experience with the game. Since i buy the game at 10$ (or something like that), why not pay another 10 for some DLC? I was expecting a 20-30 price anyway.
I would also buy DLC with new armor skins for characters, something that "ups" the visual experience of the game, but would be optional for those that don't want anything to change for the game in the art style. This would be a more minor DLC i guess but i would still hit it.
The really annoying thing though is the iPad version and its price, basically allowing you to assume or speculate that maybe the iPad version was more important to them than the PC one, and thus they focused their development on that mostly. We'll have to wait and see for that though.
Calm down.
What's the difference between between:
1.
BGEE costs 10$
DLC1 costs X$
DLC2 costs X$
and
2. BGEE already includes DLC1 and DLC2 and costs 10+X+X$
TrentOster's explanation is no reason for that kind of reaction.
Baldur's Gate Enhaced Edition means: the same ol' Baldur's Gate with a few existent mods (another version of BG Trilogy, THE SAME) with a new paid DLC for "possible loss of money" just for the mess of ipad? And as a fan I have to look this good?
Sorry it's assumed that this is a forum to express my opinion freely and they have lost a fan who had very high expectations.
On one hand, if you have a game that is on the PC, 360 and PS3, you do have to buy DLC for each version.
But I think I have read that for the PS3 and Vita, for games that support transfarring (sp?) you only have to buy the DLC once.
Not sure how Mac and iPad games work. Do iPad games work on Macs?
DLCs open up a new way to develop games further, I won't deny that, but seeing how many bad DLCs are on the market and only a couple are used that way, you shouldn't wonder why some are uncomfortable with them.
Edit: A major problem with DLCs nowadays are actually people, who willingly get ripped off.
You're mistaken.
BGEE will include the original BG1, TotSC, and two new adventures. Those two adventures are content that do not come from existant mods.
The game engine and the user interface is also being improved, improving loading times and fixing problems with the BG2 GUI that mods currently, also cannot change.
As a fan you don't have to look at the iPad price as something good, but you also don't have to look at it as something bad. Look at the example that I already posted, the price is irrelevant if you'll end up paying the same in the end for all the content. Your reason for complaining isn't exactly reasonable or fair.
The Overhaul guys have bills to pay too, so I won't criticize them for trying to make money as long as its a fair deal for their customers too. And to see if the deal is fair for everyone we first have to see what this DLC actually is, the content it will contain and the price that they'll be asking for it.
Being able to express your opinion freely doesn't mean that you can post anything that you want. Constructive criticism is one thing, complaints that are starting to verge on misinformation and whining is another.
Furthermore it's apparent in the arguments of Trent that they have been forced to get the DLC to launch the game cheaper for ipad.
For me UI improving isn't a great overhaul sorry...
The misinformation comes from when you say: BGEE will have new content that does not come existent mods. It will also feature game engine and GUI improvements that also do not come form existent mods. First let me make something clear, I am not a part of Overhaul and I have no idea of their plans for DLC. That 2 DLC number is just an example to make explaining my argument easier.
And again Kharador, look at my example:
1.
BGEE costs 10$
DLC1 costs X$
DLC2 costs X$
and
2. BGEE already includes DLC1 and DLC2 and costs 10+X+X$
Why is example 1 so much worse than example 2 when you end up paying the SAME amount of money? Until they say otherwise, the PC, Mac and iPad versions are supposed to have the same price. And you are entitled to your opinion. But if I start seeing widespread and unreasonable whining about BGEE I will start deleting posts.
I disagree that he's making a valid point because he's making assumptions about BGEE and this potential DLC without knowing the content or the price of these items.
Its fair to criticize a finalized product, its entirely unreasonable to condemn a product without actually knowing its content just because iPads "are a mess" and DLC is "evil".
He might be overly aggressive now, but because some people jumped on him. This is the negative vibe, that turns threads into flamefests.
@Tanthalas No offense Tanthalas but criticizing plans is valid and reasonable. But we really should stop discussing this matter, or it might get out of hand.
Ok, NWN_babaYaga should dial down the sarcasm a bit too. But Kharador's aggressiveness isn't justified by any attacks directed at him, more so when he's been responding to me and I believe that my responses to him have been civilized.
Wait... new content is one more big quest with a new NPC and UI improvement. I agree to pay for this new content and for those few improvements for the price that Trent said at the beginning (10 € approximately).
But still saying that your example has nothing to do with what I say. Look it's the last time I'll explain.
recreation:
Trent: we must create dlc's to earn more money through the fans. Ok! we can say that is for the holy mess of the iPad (coincidentally ALWAYS the cost is less in apple store). Ok!!! hypnotic post!! (obviously kidding)
I understand you position but I think that i'm more sceptic.
Do you think criticizing plans that none of us know anything about is valid and reasonable? Sorry, but I disagree.
But I do agree that continuing with this might get out of hand, so if you want to keep discussing this with me send me a message.
And stop insulting the iPad, there's no need for it and its starting to get annoying (and you might hurt the iPad's feelings).
But new questlines and NPCs can be achieved by mods, so basically what i understand from him is that : "You're not doing anything that much different from modders".
It all comes down again to what we expect individually from this enhanced edition. I understand that it is not a finished product so we don't know exactly what happens, but you have to understand that this "hype" was not something the fans made, and as they find out more and more things about the game that are not being enhanced, well they feel less and less excited about this "enhancement" (enchantment!?).
That's a fair point, but I really don't think that that's what this is about.
Enchant = putting some spell on something to change its appearence, physical attributes and so on.
Might seem offtopic: who thinks the new character is gonna be a lawful evil monk of bhaal, that follows you until the very end as your advisor?
What i think it's about is that people,myself included, got overhyped and hoped for some changes they considered basic, which are not happening.
Add all the events together, and since it does seem (for the moment) that the enhancement at least for the pc isn't so "huge", they get upset.
If they declare their opinions on the forum and everyone jumps at them, well... you know. It's just that, sometimes indeed we sound aggressive and i can understand it when i re-read some of my posts for example, then again sometimes you get labeled random names just because you express a different opinion which is... meh
@AndreaColombo
they can be sure we'd buy that kind of DLC about 10 times each :P
@geselle
Don't mind, it was a bad attempt at humor from me. Dragon Age, dwarf, enchanter you know.
Well bad game, bad jokes out of it i guess. Ohohoho :X
There is good dlc for some games out there, like fo: new vegas and it's a viable way of having fans happily spending some more.
I would like a complete edition not the 10$ ipad without x dlcs, when a game has 30 dlcs but 25 of them are weapons (example) it gets a bit irritating.
ps. actually apple is the evil and dlc the "mess".