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Chaotic Commands, Mind Blank and Impervious Sanctity of the Mind

I've fallen in love with F/M/C, or maybe just how level cap works in IWD, making multiclass so powerful for soloing. Also, Sanctuary is insanely strong.

Although it takes long to buff, I waltz into battle immune to like everything. However, I am unsure about the three spells I mentioned in the title. Is there any benefit in combining them, or does one of them cover everything all the others do? I suppose Chaotic Commands will not be the winner, but although I can compare descriptions, I don't have a full list of "mental effects" to check them against.

Furthermore, between Free Action, Death Ward and these spells, is there any hostile effect I'm still vulnerable to? Silence comes to mind.


  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,166
    I’ve found that mages aren’t as prevalent in IWD as they are in BG2, so you won’t run into silence very often.

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 631
    The leading IWD guide recommends five FMCs and one FMT for an optimal party so you are far from alone in believing FMCs are especially strong in this game.

  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 110
    I tend to mostly cast Chaotic Commands as a standard buff, with one of the other two if I'm concerned about certain effects. I seem to remember being upset before about being affected by Hopelessness while having CC going.

    Silence and Dispel are the nasty ones. @mashedtaters, Silence is a priest spell. I'm not sure if there's a paralyze effect independent from hold, but it's not mentioned in CC's description either, although Free Action should protect against it. I don't think poison and disease are stopped by Death Ward, so there's those as well. However, if you have the full slate of priest buffs going, the chances of failing a save are pretty slim.

    @jsaving, that guide is a joke for character creation/development purposes. Any guide that suggests multiple playthroughs to get the best equipment and spells for each character is silly, never mind six triple-classes on Core.

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 631
    Don't agree at all that triple-classes are subpar on core though I wouldn't personally have much interest in doing multiple playthroughts for the best equipment.

  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 110
    edited March 7
    One or two triple-classes is ok. A party of six is ridiculous. All triple classes means no kits, no druid, no pally, no bard, no specialists, no duals...

    Edit: ok, I shouldn't be so harsh in case anyone wants to try it. But I think it's a very skewed perspective from which to be recommending a party - e.g. an 'optimal' party based on multiple runs, rather than one run. A FMC can be very strong in the right circumstances, low number of party members and high difficulty level especially.

    Post edited by Aerich on
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 631
    edited March 7
    @Aerich Just fyi I don't run with the "recommended" party myself. I use a sorcerer, a bard, a fighter/druid, a FMT, a ranger/cleric, and a FMC. Seems very bland to have five or six carbon copies of the same character in your party, even if you can make an argument for them being effective.

  • enqenqenqenq Member Posts: 497
    According to whom is a guide that recommends exporting/importing your party and completing the game over and over the leading one? Anyway, on the original topic...


    This is based on their descriptions. By the time you can actually cast these spells, I can't think of sleep being a problem. Intoxication is self-induced. I don't think I've ever seen a monster cast Maze.

    It seems, annoyingly enough, that the best choice is MB+CC, unless you simply know exactly which dangers you will face in your next battle.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,792
    enqenq wrote: »
    According to whom is a guide that recommends exporting/importing your party and completing the game over and over the leading one? Anyway, on the original topic...


    This is based on their descriptions. By the time you can actually cast these spells, I can't think of sleep being a problem. Intoxication is self-induced. I don't think I've ever seen a monster cast Maze.

    It seems, annoyingly enough, that the best choice is MB+CC, unless you simply know exactly which dangers you will face in your next battle.

    so lets see.... based on these effects how often will you find them in game, will determine which defensive spell is more useful so from what i can recall lets see what we get:

    berserk: a couple of traps here and there and the myconoids in chapter 4 and thats about it

    confusion: besides the odd trap, don't recall seeing any thing cast or use this type of effect

    charm: im pretty sure nothing uses this effect.... and if something did, it is not often

    fear: the only time i can think that effect happens is on burial island with that bear, other than that... i think thats it, and perhaps the harpies in TotLM

    feeblemind: the only time i've ever seen this cast is in dragon's eye with the "hard" or "insane" yuan-ti mages that get warped in, casting it on a mage type in your party, other than that never again

    hold: this one is actually fairly common but luckily you can pick pocket ringS of free action from many sources so this shouldn't be a problem, or by the looks of it any of the above spells will protect you from it plus free action

    intoxication: lol..... really? well i guess if you drink from the rare cursed potions or bottles of wine, but no enemy will have this effect on you

    maze: no enemy/source uses this effect

    petrification: the only time i've seen this effect is in dorn's deep for the eye ball traps in the artisan's district, other than that you will never see this effect again

    sleep: from what i remember the only time you will see this is on the tomb that has the haste scroll in the vale of shadows, other than that, you will never see this again

    stun: i want to say this effect is a little bit more common with higher level baddies, although i think hopelessness is the actual effect from those greater mummies, so if that is the scenario then being stunned from enemies will also be rare

    in IWD enemies just aren't the spell casting harriers that the enemies in SoA are, infact, the spell casting in IWD is just down right lazy, where a baddie might cast a lame spell or two and then go to melee for lame attacks

    and unfortunately any caster that is actually worth their salt as a caster i usually kill off to quick to know if they are actually going to cast something that might slow me down

    just looking back, as far as i can recall no one or nothing casts silence, but i just don't remember, the level 2 spell vocalize will make you immune to any silencing effect if that does become a problem

    death ward makes you immune to disintegrate, finger of death, powerword kill or any effect that "kills" or "slays" so, pretty much the first 3, now i do recall some limited sources using such effects, but they are super rare ( the idol in the temple district in dorn's deep is the only one i can think of at the moment when it comes to finger of death or PWK ) disintegrate i don't think anything uses that

    luckily though if you have a good save vs spell aka -1 then you are pretty much going to be immune to any "mind influencing" type attack with the only exception being berserk which might be a save vs death

    based on the table above, none of these spells protect against petrification ( or at least that is what it is telling me in the game files ) but that's okay because as i said before the only thing that will turn you to stone is just a trap or two that you can easily avoid

    so when it comes to which spell should you use, it will go like this:

    chaotic commands will be the first one you get, so when you get it, use it if need be

    but then when you get impervious sanctity of mind, use that instead because it blocks against more things than chaotic commands

    and then when it comes time for mind blank, its really up to you, which one you prefer, you don't need to use both, just one of them is good, ISoM has a 1 turn/level duration while mind blank has a laughably mind boggling 24 hour duration ( lol? ) so it comes down to what slot you wish to use to become immune to all the bad things

    now, i just dug a little deeper and apparently the hopelessness effect from symbol hopelessness is a stunning effect, which mind blank and ISoM do not protect against but CC does, but apparently the ring of free action makes you immune to stun, oh wait, you are a FMC so you can't pick pocket that item..... hopefully you can get a famaliar that can? if not you will need to use CC against stunning or have a very good save vs spell

    but with that being said, as i said, im pretty sure only greater mummies use symbol of hopelessness, and its random ( 25% chance of being cast each time they cast a spell, which theoretically can be cast infinite times )

  • enqenqenqenq Member Posts: 497
    Ah, I don't know why I didn't include it in the opening post, but I have Free Action at my disposal as well of course. At this point, even through the ring (from Kieran Nye's pursuers, IIRC) should I for some reason not just want to use level 4 memos for it.

    What you said about petrification traps is actually worrisome because I always assume I will be fine eating traps with all my defensive spells up. That said, I do certainly have an impressive save vs. spell at this point. The problem with mixing in a petrification counter is I believe you get Mind Blank late, Seven Eyes has a short duration compared to my 1 turn/level protections and Protection from Petrification competes with Blur/Mirror Image for memos while also suffering the duration problem.

    Just for the record on that note, I do believe one of Kieran's pursuers casts Flesh to Stone. And hey, beholders?

  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 110
    A few comments re: mind effects and the protection spells and who casts them... *Spoilers*

    I'm not sure if Panic is the exact same effect as fear (I suspect so), and that's an annoying harpy specialty in TotL. Certain casters use Horror (fear effect) regularly, including Terikan and I think a couple of casters in the Severed Hand. Clerics in the Hand will also use Cloak of Fear. Wailing Virgins have a hopelessness wail, iirc. I'm quite sure I've seen mage casters in Dragon's Eye and/or Severed Hand use Dire Charm, and SH clerics cast the domination-type spells - beholders have something like this as well, which is why I like to use animal and elemental summons against them. Silence is cast in Dragon's Eye by clerics on level 2 and by clerics in the Hand. I believe I have seen yuan-ti mages cast Confusion. Priest-mages of Vhaerun cast Flesh to Stone and Kraken Society mages may cast insta-kill spells, but my memory is foggy on that one (Disintegrate). I recall some of the other casters using Feeblemind - Kontik and Lower Dorn's mages come to mind.

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