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BG2:EE No more 9th lvl or HLA spells without 18 int

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  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    demented said:

    Fardragon said:

    SionIV said:

    zur312 said:

    well if they want PnP accurate at 100% this little int nerf is like the last thing that should be changed

    i think edwin is not better than charname mage

    how many dual/multi classes are better than pure specialist mage?

    Multi / dual -> Pure class
    Edwin -> Multi / Dual

    Those free spells of his, he is exactly that good.
    And any sorcerer >> Edwin. Baeloth mops the floor with Edwin.

    Baldur's Gate has never been about balance, and that is the way it should be.

    Must resist need to point out difference between versatility and raw power.
    Must point out that if versitility is what you want, Neera > Edwin.

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    Fardragon said:

    demented said:

    Must resist need to point out difference between versatility and raw power.

    Must point out that if versitility is what you want, Neera > Edwin.
    Except that with Neera you are constantly gambling and you may be just a Wild Surge away from an horrible death.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Erg said:

    Fardragon said:

    demented said:

    Must resist need to point out difference between versatility and raw power.

    Must point out that if versitility is what you want, Neera > Edwin.
    Except that with Neera you are constantly gambling and you may be just a Wild Surge away from an horrible death.
    For those who are to wimpy to use a wild mage, even a regular vanilla mage is more versatile than Edwin, especially if dual classed from something cheesy like kensai.

    And a sorcerer has more raw power (and Time Stops).

    Face it, Edwin is mediocre, not excelling at either versatility or power. He is also the weakest race (when not dual classed) and has crummy dexterity.

  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    Yea 10 dexterity on a mage = just keep getting hit all the time. And yes you can use stoneskin, but with an 18 dex stoneskin will last longer.

    You can also mod more spell slots into the game if you want, the PnP rule mod allows up to 9 spells per day on mages. And sorcerers 7 casts per day per level, and they are still better.

    A kensai / mage on the other hang doesn't even need the extra slots, just pop a stoneskin, mirror image and improved haste and destroy everything.

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    I'm not some kind of Edwin fanboy :)

    I just meant that there is always a trade-off.

  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    SionIV said:

    I think it's rather charming and a nice touch to the game that Edwin is a better mage than CHARNAME. Just because CHARNAME is a bhaalspawn doesn't mean that he should be better at arcane arts than Edwin. It's the same thing with Sarevok, he IS a bhaalspawn but he is still much more powerful than any fighter you could make yourself.

    Let Edwin have his small treats, he is evil and has a quite annoying personality so it's not like everyone and their mother use him to start with. Why can't the few evil NPC's we have get a little bonus? I would go as far as saying to balance Baldur's Gate would ruin the whole gaming experience.

    Take Garrick for an example, he's not a very good NPC's but it's kind of realistic that way. He is a bard that wanders the streets, he isn't supposed to be as powerful as a bounty hunter or a harper. It was a breath of fresh air to have Garrick back in BG1.

    I much rather have Garrick, Montaron, Safana, Quayle and Faldorn in my party instead of some Neera, Dorn and Rasaad if they were made to perfection with balance in mind and Neera could pull of a Edwina, Dorn could smack Keldorn around etc.

    Give me back bad NPC's you can learn to love for their personality, and the fact that they are utter shit. I have a big spot in my heart for Garrick just because he tried. He's like the half blind labrador puppy that keeps falling over it's own legs. It's not the most useful party member, but damn if you don't love it to bits.

    I know that I'm replying to an ancient post, but I'd agree with you wholeheartedly if it wasn't for the fact that BG1 NPCs don't have any personalities outside of a few amusing one-liners.

    sunset00SionIV
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Fardragon said:

    Erg said:

    Fardragon said:

    demented said:

    Must resist need to point out difference between versatility and raw power.

    Must point out that if versitility is what you want, Neera > Edwin.
    Except that with Neera you are constantly gambling and you may be just a Wild Surge away from an horrible death.
    For those who are to wimpy to use a wild mage, even a regular vanilla mage is more versatile than Edwin, especially if dual classed from something cheesy like kensai.

    And a sorcerer has more raw power (and Time Stops).

    Face it, Edwin is mediocre, not excelling at either versatility or power. He is also the weakest race (when not dual classed) and has crummy dexterity.
    Yep, a single classed mage or a kensai/mage dual class are both more versatile than Edwin in that they can cast divination spells. Is that something that makes him now mediocre over say another NPC like Neera who cast way fewer spells than him? I do not think so. He has a good balance of power and versatility in the second game. There are no NPC sorcerers in BG2 so if you want power, he is the best you can do and while being the strongest with raw magical power he is far more versatile than Baeloth was in BG1. If by "too wimpy" you mean people who don't like to reload over and over because you were trying to cast haste and instead nuked 35k gold or summoned a demon in the middle of waukeens promenade, yes those would be viable options unless you didn't want your charname to be a mage. Edwin is the best you can get in BG2.

    A sorcerer does have more raw power, sadly there are no sorcerers in BG2 unless you play one as charname so this isn't a feasible option for everyone (not everyone likes playing magic users).

    Edwin is far from mediocre, especially in BG2 (read: where there is no Baeloth). He has the best of both worlds, more spells than a mage, more versatility than a sorcerer.

    elminsterjackjack
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited November 2013
    Erg said:

    I'm not some kind of Edwin fanboy :)

    Edwin fanboy? Where?!

  • BasillicumBasillicum Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 400
    With balance comes a vague form of uniformity, which is kind of boring. Keeping NPCs unique and sometimes weaker or noticably more powerful than others makes the game fun and challenging, in my opinion.

    I like that the only evil wizard NPC is the most powerful. Makes sense, really.

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Fardragon said:

    Erg said:

    I'm not some kind of Edwin fanboy :)

    Edwin fanboy? Where?!
    Here! *waves gleefully*

    Rpg_AvatarCrevsDaak
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,280
    Remember that 3rd edition games, which were produced afterwards, made intelligence more important, increasing skill points and limiting spell level.

    Also, Torment made intelligence important by increasing dialogue options.

    So it leaves us with two mod suggestions , one that add skills to bg games, and another that sophisticates dialogues.

  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    edited October 2019
    elminster wrote: »
    Big thread necro! :)

    Indeed. Who does that ? :smiley:

    gorgonzola
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