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Cloak of the Sewers, wasted opportunity?

I love the concept of this item, but seriously, a rat...
Troll, love it! Mustard jelly, good, but already covered by polymorph self. I think they wasted 2 of the 3 forms.

I know the cheese with the rat being resistant to physical damage, but does anyone seriously fight their way across faerun in the form of a bloody rat?!

Comments

  • LuigirulesLuigirules Member Posts: 419
    The cloak of the sewers is cloak of protection you can wear with magical items.
    sarevok57ThacoBell
  • bman86bman86 Member Posts: 115
    edited November 2013

    The cloak of the sewers is cloak of protection you can wear with magical items.

    true enough, and unfortunately that's no doubt what everyone uses it for. Handy having a cloak that doesn't clash with other items of protection.

    But the gimmick of it, the shapechange abilities, that's my gripe. Throw in a form like minotaur, or some other form that isn't covered by existing spells/abilities

  • bman86bman86 Member Posts: 115

    Why would a cloak of the sewers turn you into a Minotaur?

    Cloak of the Labyrinth, yes. Sewers not so much.

    How about a carrion crawler? ...bit out there, but still better than a rat
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    There's not really anything you can add to the Cloak of Sewers, that isn't already covered.
  • bman86bman86 Member Posts: 115
    edited November 2013
    lol, I guess I'm the only one who would've liked another cool shapechange form
  • calgore101calgore101 Member Posts: 11
    while I was confused about the rat bit. The cloak of the sewers is already one of the better cloaks you can get without having a better shapechange form... and honestly rat kinda makes sense... maybe giant rat.
  • GawdzillaGawdzilla Member Posts: 86
    I love the cloak. But realize I've probably never used the shapechange abilities haha..
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited November 2013
    Gawdzilla said:

    I love the cloak. But realize I've probably never used the shapechange abilities haha..

    You should. The rat makes an awesome tank (it doesn't change your constitution only your dexterity and strength). It gives 90% physical damage resistance vs slashing/piercing/blunt/missile weapons (you can dispel the claws with dispel magic so that your character is attacking with their normal weapon). Plus the trolls regeneration ability can be useful.
    JuliusBorisovlolienArvia
  • LaceLace Member Posts: 74
    You know, I've never used the form of the rat before. After @elminster 's description, I think I will! :)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited November 2013
    You'll probably want to have the character with the boots of speed on though (and ideally if/after you dispel their claws cast a haste spell). Otherwise they move around slowly.
    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • bman86bman86 Member Posts: 115
    elminster said:

    You'll probably want to have the character with the boots of speed on though (and ideally if/after you dispel their claws cast a haste spell). Otherwise they move around slowly.

    definitely need the boots...such a joke though. Rat taking down an ogre or troll or something even more rediculous
    Skatan
  • iosfrustrationiosfrustration Member Posts: 153
    elminster wrote: »
    (Quote)
    You should. The rat makes an awesome tank (it doesn't change your constitution only your dexterity and strength). It gives 90% physical damage resistance vs slashing/piercing/blunt/missile weapons (you can dispel the claws with dispel magic so that your character is attacking with their normal weapon). Plus the trolls regeneration ability can be useful.

    Continuing the theme of interesting thread necromancy, this one from 2013 caught my eye.

    Is such a thing still possible? And if rat form gives 90% physical immunity can a rat with Defender of Easthaven reach 100+?

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    elminster wrote: »
    (Quote)
    You should. The rat makes an awesome tank (it doesn't change your constitution only your dexterity and strength). It gives 90% physical damage resistance vs slashing/piercing/blunt/missile weapons (you can dispel the claws with dispel magic so that your character is attacking with their normal weapon). Plus the trolls regeneration ability can be useful.

    Continuing the theme of interesting thread necromancy, this one from 2013 caught my eye.

    Is such a thing still possible? And if rat form gives 90% physical immunity can a rat with Defender of Easthaven reach 100+?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/al0y9n/cloak_of_the_sewers_is_op_vs_beholders/efa26gf/

    These guys are saying The Defender of Easthaven stacks with Rat Resistances. Never tried it myself.

    Doesn't sound like you even need to do the dispelling trick for that.
    iosfrustration
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861
    edited October 2019
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    bman86 wrote: »
    (Quote)
    definitely need the boots...such a joke though. Rat taking down an ogre or troll or something even more rediculous

    I don't know. This rat looks pretty scary to me!

    6w9dji4odvrc.jpg

    Except to me it looks more like a rabbit than a rat? A short-eared, long-tailed, scary rabbit but a rabbit all the same.
    Balrog99iosfrustration
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,342
    Many believe that rats caused the decimation of 1/3 of medieval Europe.

    So I guess that rats are not to be underestimated.

    If the DoE won’t work, I guess Hardiness and the DD defensive stance could. That could put the rat over the top.
    Balrog99gorgonzolaiosfrustrationArvia
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    bman86 wrote: »
    (Quote)
    definitely need the boots...such a joke though. Rat taking down an ogre or troll or something even more rediculous

    I don't know. This rat looks pretty scary to me!

    6w9dji4odvrc.jpg

    Except to me it looks more like a rabbit than a rat? A short-eared, long-tailed, scary rabbit but a rabbit all the same.

    Ok, how about this one then? And don't even get me started about Vorpal Bunnies...

    6kyzubogv2nc.jpg
    StummvonBordwehrPermidion_StarkiosfrustrationArvia
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    bman86 wrote: »
    (Quote)
    definitely need the boots...such a joke though. Rat taking down an ogre or troll or something even more rediculous

    I don't know. This rat looks pretty scary to me!

    6w9dji4odvrc.jpg

    Except to me it looks more like a rabbit than a rat? A short-eared, long-tailed, scary rabbit but a rabbit all the same.

    Ok, how about this one then? And don't even get me started about Vorpal Bunnies...

    6kyzubogv2nc.jpg

    Okay, that's one scary rat.
    Balrog99iosfrustration
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    This is a hilarious forum thread and I just came here to read the comments.
    gorgonzolaiosfrustration
  • MortainMortain Member Posts: 6
    Chronicler wrote: »
    elminster wrote: »
    (Quote)
    You should. The rat makes an awesome tank (it doesn't change your constitution only your dexterity and strength). It gives 90% physical damage resistance vs slashing/piercing/blunt/missile weapons (you can dispel the claws with dispel magic so that your character is attacking with their normal weapon). Plus the trolls regeneration ability can be useful.

    Continuing the theme of interesting thread necromancy, this one from 2013 caught my eye.

    Is such a thing still possible? And if rat form gives 90% physical immunity can a rat with Defender of Easthaven reach 100+?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/al0y9n/cloak_of_the_sewers_is_op_vs_beholders/efa26gf/

    These guys are saying The Defender of Easthaven stacks with Rat Resistances. Never tried it myself.

    Doesn't sound like you even need to do the dispelling trick for that.

    Unfortunately I can't confirm that. Actually when transformed to a rat you are basically naked so none of the items abilities remain. So for it to work you would have to reequip all the items, which weapons are not allowed in that form "You cannot equip weapons while shapechanged". The things that do seams to stack are abilities and spells such as hardiness and armor of faith. Here an example with armor of faith applied before shapechanging into a rat:
    jnxnooslw63t.jpg

    And it seems as they capped the resistance of physical damage at 100 so that you couldn't heal anymore by going above it :neutral:
    gorgonzolaArvia
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    @Mortain
    you have to equip the defender of e. in the OH weapon slot as the MH weapon is replaced by the rat weapon so if it is there its effect is lost.
    i confirm that the resistance is capped at 100%, but i have no problem to get that value with the cloak and flail, thing that makes to have the best possible tank against only physical damage dealing enemies quite easy as soon as the party has some money and is able to beat the owner of the cloak.
    Grond0StummvonBordwehrDJKajuru
  • MortainMortain Member Posts: 6
    @gorgonzola You are right! Just double checked and I really don't get why that works. All the other items are unused... just the off hand weapon. The idea of a rat with a flail in it's hand is quite ridiculous... So this must probably be a bug, non the less your missile resistance goes to 90 "only".
    gorgonzola
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 950
    I had a barbarian, who alwayd use rat form. It was so fun, rager barbarian rat :D the hilarious in offhand was the club of detonation with fire resist, flail of ages, axe of unyielding.
    Zaxares
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,325
    Danacm wrote: »
    I had a barbarian, who alwayd use rat form. It was so fun, rager barbarian rat :D the hilarious in offhand was the club of detonation with fire resist, flail of ages, axe of unyielding.

    Gives a new twist to the classic "Kill 10 Rats" starter quest in RPGs. ;)
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    In PnP D&D the rat form was awesome for spying, er, scouting and gathering information.
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 1,090
    tbone1 wrote: »
    In PnP D&D the rat form was awesome for spying, er, scouting and gathering information.

    I consider it a lost opportunity that the rat form in BG can't hide on its own the way a thief can. If anything, it should be better than a thief at disappearing, and it would make the form vastly more useful.
    StummvonBordwehrBalrog99
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    edited November 2019
    Mortain wrote: »
    @gorgonzola You are right! Just double checked and I really don't get why that works. All the other items are unused... just the off hand weapon. The idea of a rat with a flail in it's hand is quite ridiculous... So this must probably be a bug, non the less your missile resistance goes to 90 "only".

    i don't know if it is a bug or it is intended, but is probably related to the way EE managed to deal with the offhand weapon.
    in the original you ccan not equip a 2H weapon, like ie a bow, if you have an off hand equipped, you have to go to the inventory, unequip there the OH weapon and then swithch to the 2H MH weapon.
    EE cange this and now there you can equip a bow directly, without having to switch to the inventory page.
    and this makes possible things that in the original are not possible, like shifting to a form that has its MH weapon, like the rat, while still using the OH one and keeping its effects when equipped, like the damage reduction from the defender or the str from crom, as well as DW a BBOD and a previously equipped OH weapon or a returning MH weapon set for mlee attack and an OH weapon, to get 4 attacks/round with 2 not fighters even before UAI, 3 with UAI, equipping the 2 daggers and the axe MH and the regular +1apr weapons, belm, kundane and scarlet, OH.

    it is not the first or the only time that EE fixing something messed up with something other...
    if you regard it as an abuse remember to unequip the OH weapon, other way have fun with it. :)

    EDIT: a quite powerful use of the thing is to shapeshift into golem, and there is a trick to have it at will, while equipping crom OH, jan can do it, aerie even better, the added str and thac0 make the golem much stronger and give it a way better thac0.
  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 1,055
    @gorgonzola I am pretty sure that bug existed in the original. Though I do not quite understand why you consider it a bug that a character would be able to use their left hand when their right hand is occupied. (Black Blade of Disaster is a one-handed sword)
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    edited November 2019
    @Humanoid_Taifun possibly you are right.

    i consider a bug, or a bad design decision, that a toon that is shapeshifted in some other creature can still use a weapon created for humanoids, imho he should stick to the claws or whatever weapon that form uses, and the fact that his armor becomes not effective as long as he is shapeshifted seems to confirm the thing, at least for me.

    also i don't like the idea that a rat can weld a flail, maybe a troll or a golem could, but a rat or a jelly? how it is supposed to be able to do such thing? well, in game it can.

    that told i gladly use the bug-bad implementation-whatever extensively in my playing, even if from a strict RP perspective i should probably not do it.
    there is absolutely no morale judgment on the players that do it, as long as they have fun doing it. and i have a lot of fun doing it, i don't use often the rat form, but my aerie uses often the troll form from the cloack, always DW and always buffing herself trough sequencers and contingiency, as well as she uses often the golem form when she is at much higher level in the same way.
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