No metagame, no reload run questions
cdx
Member Posts: 94
Hi, I was wondering how to go about a no reload, no metagame 100% run. I'm in a BG originals phase, so no EE content.
I consider it ok to use the BG wiki for many but not all monsters because the PC grew up in Candlekeep and should have read up on all kinds of monsters (e.g. basilisks). At least about their general abilities. This means that a human would not be considered to be hostile beforehand if it is neutral in-game and no wiki check. Also, a plenty of missed rewards.
Does it seem possible to go through all the content of the BG games this way? For example Shoal seems like a live or die by luck thing. If she somehow gets to an NPC first instead of the PC, but that depends on the PC class. Also, the nasty trap in Spellhold, any self-respecting thief would try do disarm it and get thinner for it. Are there other examples of things like these?
I'd like to have the PC play an active/frontline role in the party (a party of six) but it looks much more likely such a role to lead to a game over. Any realistic way to go for it, say, with a FMT? The Spellhold trap would end that, if he is the trap disarmer. On the other hand, scouting seems compulsory, although not necessarily by the PC.
What would be the best class? I imagine the PC lugging around all kinds of equipment for different scenarios. E.g. having a sword to protect from domination... but if I roleplay it properly I can't really swap weapons mid-round just to get the benificial protection effect as a spell is cast.
Also, I imagine resting after nearly every fight would be more or less compulsory.
Could a berserker or berserker->mage do it? Do I need to use rage every second of every fight? How about any other front-liner? (Think of meeting beholders for the first time without B shield, or mind flayers, or maze). Could FMT do it? Or is the only option a mage/archer/etc staying safely behind and resurrecting inevitable deaths?
I'm thinking more or less vanilla run, no scs, etc, no optimal item collection order, but 100% content playthrough and full party.
I consider it ok to use the BG wiki for many but not all monsters because the PC grew up in Candlekeep and should have read up on all kinds of monsters (e.g. basilisks). At least about their general abilities. This means that a human would not be considered to be hostile beforehand if it is neutral in-game and no wiki check. Also, a plenty of missed rewards.
Does it seem possible to go through all the content of the BG games this way? For example Shoal seems like a live or die by luck thing. If she somehow gets to an NPC first instead of the PC, but that depends on the PC class. Also, the nasty trap in Spellhold, any self-respecting thief would try do disarm it and get thinner for it. Are there other examples of things like these?
I'd like to have the PC play an active/frontline role in the party (a party of six) but it looks much more likely such a role to lead to a game over. Any realistic way to go for it, say, with a FMT? The Spellhold trap would end that, if he is the trap disarmer. On the other hand, scouting seems compulsory, although not necessarily by the PC.
What would be the best class? I imagine the PC lugging around all kinds of equipment for different scenarios. E.g. having a sword to protect from domination... but if I roleplay it properly I can't really swap weapons mid-round just to get the benificial protection effect as a spell is cast.
Also, I imagine resting after nearly every fight would be more or less compulsory.
Could a berserker or berserker->mage do it? Do I need to use rage every second of every fight? How about any other front-liner? (Think of meeting beholders for the first time without B shield, or mind flayers, or maze). Could FMT do it? Or is the only option a mage/archer/etc staying safely behind and resurrecting inevitable deaths?
I'm thinking more or less vanilla run, no scs, etc, no optimal item collection order, but 100% content playthrough and full party.
2
Comments
Regardless of the class, it's always best to have your main character stick to the back of the line. Resurrection costs a few hundred gold in BG1 and will be free shortly into BG2.
I like that randomization idea. How far would you take it for a still fun gameplay experience ? (and is there a easy-to-use tool to achieve that randomization character or should I just dig up a dice or two and start rolling stuff ?)
And how would you enforce the no-metagaming aspect (without mods) ? It is hard not to use the metaknowledge I have gathered along the years, but that takes away much of the fun sometimes.
And the best thing about being a Cavalier is you can lead from the front and still have a pretty good chance of surviving.
I often feel like I'm cheating if I run around with protective spells up and running at all times. But, as soon as someone we don't know casts Mirror Images, or starts chanting at the party, I cast Remove Fear, because I think it's reasonable to expect that there is a Horror spell incoming.
In BG2, mind control and death magic are so commonly used, I find it reasonable to make sure Chaotic Commands and Death Ward are always active, as well (An exception to my rule about buffing.) The wearing off of Chaotic Commands or Death Ward is cause for immediate retreat to safety. No more exploring that day.
I always use some basic tactics by habit, for example, making sure my retreat is clear while scouting and exploring. Having a rogue scout out an enemy squad's location without being seen and then giving the party mage a mark to throw a Web and a Fireball is a perfectly reasonable tactic in my book, and I do that all the time.
There are times when it is clearly known that one is approaching a mage boss, as mages are considered highly intelligent and are usually put in charge of enemy bases. So, for example, when approaching Davaeorn's chambers, drinking potions of fire and lightning protection before going in there is perfectly reasonable. It's also reasonable to assume that some mooks could have been captured and questioned for information about the base.
It's reasonable that Charname would have been taught the beginnings of basic incantations, even without the talent to cast the spells, such that he or she would know that if "Incertus! Pulcher!...." is heard, there is a massive damage spell incoming, and could order "Scatter!" or "Drink!" or something like that to the party before the spell goes off.
So, I use a lot of thinking like that to justify doing what's needed to survive without it feeling as much like I'm cheating with metaknowledge.
For some things like that trap in Spellhold, you just have to make a decision. It does *look* kind of suspicious, so maybe a thief with high Wisdom or Intelligence would figure it out. Else, you decide to sacrifice your thief to it in the name of "not metagaming". I guess that's up to each individual player.
There is a clear difference between using protections against spells a mage is likely to use after you have spotted him and memorizing and using a specific protection because the player, but not the party, knows that the next day a certain boss mage will cast a specific spell.
I play "minimal reload"...if my main char dies, I reload. If anything else happens, keep chugging along.
If the PC is your main thief, then I reload after they die the first time (or to be real sensible about it, just avoid the trap in the 1st place). RP reason is, like mentioned above, "looks suspicious"--it really does if you look at it.
In other cases, I think the only right thing to do is sacrifice whoever your main thief is. Hopefully you were able to pick up Imoen, have another serviceable thief, or can rely on mage spells. I once got out of Spell hold with just my Avenger druid and Nalia, with Jan, Imoen, and Valygar all dying in the escape.
Why is that? You have a trap pinging in between two unique walls that very obviously stand out. It seems pretty obvious to me.
I think the fairest way to handle it would have been to give a message on disarm attempts instead of setting it off. Something like "The mechanisms of this trap are buried deep in the walls. You are unable to reach them to even attempt to disarm it." And, of course, it doesn't kill the thief when you do this. That then gives you a choice - do you go that way and risk an unknown trap's effects, or try to find a way around?
That said, this is old-school DnD, where you didn't always get a warning. The machine of Lum the Mad is a good example of this. You really did risk a great deal messing around with that thing beyond the known settings on the scrolls.
It is more a trap for the first time player then a trap for the party, so with it I use metagame knowledge and I avoid it or send some cheap summon to trigger it and disable it.
It is true that those walls look suspicious, but even so you can guess that there is a trap, not that there is a trap scripted to kill you and impossible to disable.
I am pretty sure that ALL the players that went there the first time without clue had someone killed by it, the only ones spared was the ones that for some reason had some summon still alive after the battle with the yun ti group and that sent the summons before the party.
IMO to play avoiding metagame knowledge makes the game more interesting and challenging, but in the case of the traps it is different. It has no sense at all when you are at your 10th or 100th run of the game to have your thief check for traps areas where you perfectly know that there are no traps, our RL gaming time is limited and it has no sense at all wasting it for such silly things, while to avoid a trap that is not detected because you know it is there, or to pre buff for a battle that you can't have clue is going to happen is completely different.
We should use the no metagame attitude as a way to make the game more interesting and challenging, not become prisoners of that attitude, I don't feel "guilty" at all when i send a summon in that particular trap...