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Justification fot not taking Imoen

Does anybody know any good role-playing justification for not taking Imoen after rescuing her from Spellhold if charname is good aligment and had her in the party in BG1?
While I can pretend that charname wants to protect her sister there are two problems with this justification:
a) Imoen does not want to be protected, she wants to be part of the party
b) I do not want to protect her, I really like her but I am scared of her. I know that she is great liability in Ascension

JuliusBorisovgorgonzola

Comments

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 848
    edited April 2020
    a) She might not want to be protected but sometimes we need to protect people from themselves. It's clear from the very beginning of the game that she's psychologically damaged from her stay in Chateau Irenicus. Things only get worse in Spellhold.

    b) I've never tried Ascension, so I don't really have an answer for this, but I guess one question to think about in general is whether what happens to her in Ascension happens later in the game, is therefore meta knowledge, and, from a RP standpoint, whether you think it's fair for your character to make choices based on this knowledge? Everyone has a different take on how strict their RP should be.

    JuliusBorisovgorgonzola
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,013
    I'd argue there's no RP justification for entering Spellhold with a 6-man party, if you do that knowing you are about to need a spare slot then there is a player issue not a game restriction issue.

    ThacoBellOrlonKronsteengorgonzola
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,610
    There is, in my opinion. Even with Imoen in the party in BG1, the main character could come to new conclusions after beating SoD without her in the party and after meeting and completing quests in SoA, say, for Nalia, Mazzy, Aerie (if Jaheira and Minsc are transferring from the same BG1 party). After getting to know these supposed Nalia, Mazzy, Aerie the character would have a RP justification to continue with them till Spellhold - as there is no indication Imoen will be 100% alive, or she'll be able to participate in the group (after what happened in SoD and the Spellhold itself).

    gorgonzola
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    There is no justification for a good aligned character to leave their little sister (she acts like one way before its confirmed) in an insane insane asylum full of traps and monsters. Especially after being experimented on and vulnerable. An evil charname, sure, but not a good one.

    OrlonKronsteengorgonzola
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 741
    edited April 2020
    I have never managed to do it. You can headcanon stuff but it doesn’t
    make sense if your reason for going to Spellhold was to find her and you view her as your sister. I would love the game to allow a 7th npc from this point - likewise to let Yeslick at least leave Cloakwood Mines with you would be nice too

    Edit: As FrozenCells says it’s basically “good luck getting home Nalia” 90% of the time, which feels bad but less so and explicable

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,888
    edited April 2020
    If it really bothers you just RP that she's severely traumatized and opts to follow you at a safe distance rather than be an active participant in the battles. After escaping, instead of heading out on the ship with you and Saemon, she decides to recuperate in Brynnlaw for a while before heading back to Athkatla. A good person would allow this instead of forcing her into combat.

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 848
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    There is no justification for a good aligned character to leave their little sister (she acts like one way before its confirmed) in an insane insane asylum full of traps and monsters. Especially after being experimented on and vulnerable. An evil charname, sure, but not a good one.

    This is a good point. I think we can clarify the difference between abandoning Imoen - or any character, for that matter - in Spellhold, and removing them from your party once you crawl out of the underdark. I kind of figured the latter was meant in this thread, but I could have been wrong. Heck, IIRC, even Edwin, who's pure scum, complains if you try to dump Imoen in Spellhold.

    My solution has always been to go to Spellhold with a party of five or less, so there's always room to take Imoen. I'll still often remove her - either for party balance or RP reasons - once I get back. But even on a blackguard run I'll get her out of there.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    I always have Yoshimo with me, so it ends up being a non-issue for me.

    Gusinda
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,741
    The game should let you put her inside a bag of holding, so you can carry her safely out of Spellhold and then take her to somewhere safe in Athkatla and let her stay there and rest. (I don't want her in my party because the other companions I have are a more balanced combination for me.) Considering all the other stuff that you can put inside bags of holding (including bodies), you should be able to put her in, with candies and stuff maybe.

  • energisedcamelenergisedcamel Member Posts: 85
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    If it really bothers you just RP that she's severely traumatized and opts to follow you at a safe distance rather than be an active participant in the battles. After escaping, instead of heading out on the ship with you and Saemon, she decides to recuperate in Brynnlaw for a while before heading back to Athkatla. A good person would allow this instead of forcing her into combat.

    This is what I often do because the game has limitations without providing an in-game reason. I think these sorts of head-cannon justifications can be really fun and add to the overall narrative of the story. (Example: Jaheira and Khalid leave my party after Nashkel because they are going to do some Harper business elsewhere and investigate other sources to get to the bottom of the Iron Crisis, conveniently leaving me with space for Kivan and Branwen. It's a sign of their growing faith in the PC and gives the PC a taste of independence, etc.)

    Before their soul is taken, the last the PC sees of Imoen is a broken husk in Spellhold, and before that, someone who was clearly deeply affected by torture. I think a good-aligned PC could justify her not actively fighting with the group because they want to protect her, so she just follows along. (You'd have to mentally block out the dialogue where you are reunited and you have to tell her she can't join - mod idea??)

    Balrog99
  • iosfrustrationiosfrustration Member Posts: 153
    The justification is clear. Imogen is some kind of incredibly powerful meta-mega-litch. She was returned to an uneasy state of un-life by a powerful casting of pre-release “executive meddling”. The clues all add up
    Chapter 1 = utterly invincible
    Chapter 2 = invisible
    Chapter 3 = haunting your dreams
    Chapter 4 = more dream haunting, no-one else can escape spellhold on their own, she just waltzes right out
    Chapter 5 = reveals her true form as a litch-drow
    Chapter 6 = Bhodi often abducts others close to you, but never imoen because she is already undead
    Chapter 7 = can’t really think of anything for chapter 7 at the moment

    Blackbɨrdwoogirl
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    edited April 2020
    For a good aligned party, that goes to spellhood to rescue imoen and not to have a revenge on irenicus, to leave her in the maze has no justification at all.
    but is also true that, as @jsaving told, if you know that you are going to rescue her, knowing that a more then 6 people party for some unexplained and mysterious reason is not possible and also knowing how difficult is to get to spellhood, so probably also to return to the main land, to leave for the island with a 6 people party is a very dumb choice.
    also if the 6th is yoshimo as you have almost no clue of what will happen.

    with metaknowledge you know both what will happen if yoshimo is in the party and that imoen, but only imoen, will find her way to the main land, but if we are talking of RP reasons is dumb to leave for the island with a 6 people party, any composition, and to leave imoen it the condition you find her in the maze is always an evil choice.

    then, returned to the main land imo there are so many possible RP reasons to don't continue to have her in the party, or at least to have her only in the very moment when you can restore her soul.
    when i was younger i used to climb free solo, no rope used, and also my sister was climbing, but i would never brought her with me in my free solo runs as them are very risky, a single error or a single piece of rock that breaks means 100% chance to die. if she wanted to adventure in rock climbing i preferred her safe doing it with other people that actually uses the rope. to go trough SoA and ToB, face one of the most powerful mages of faerun, the five, the dragons and the rest is at least as risky, if you care for your little sister don't take her with you, does not matter how she want to come with you (mine did not want it much by the way... :D ).
    and this is only one of the many possible good RP reasons to tell imoen, after you have brought her with you safe to the main land: "heya lil sister, better you stay home, there is no place for you in my party. but as i have found a way to restore your soul i will let you know it, don't worry about it".

    and this is what i usually do when for some reason i prefer to don't have imoen in the party.

    EDIT: as i care both of RP and PG issues at the same time, i don't feel that are opposite things, when i run a 6 people party and don't want imoen with me i swap one of my toons for yoshimo, and i should not as i am using meta knowledge doing it, then i take imoen with me, but in the way that steals the less possible xp from my party members. right after entering a new area like the city of the fishes or the underdark i park imoen in a safe place and play in 5 people all the area, then i rescue her right before leaving her.
    also as you can return to the underdark i try to do the minimum amount of battles while in 5 people to don't loose too much xp with the 6th, then, as adalon shows me the way to the surface i return with the 6th member to do all what has been undone. as the beholder area is the one where you can get what you need to progress the main quest with a single battle usually is my choice, that, killing the demon to get the stone to meet adalon and what happens in the drow city are the only things that you have to complete in 5, all the rest, the 3 big dungeons with, the imprisoned mage, freeing the people prisoner in the giant gem and even the random battles you find as you walk in the main underdark area can be delayed with some invisibility spells or potions.
    this way to have imoen in the party until you reach the main land has really a minimum impact on the toon you leave at home.

  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    And how about justification about killing "friend" in a quest for Lilarcor (and solid quest XP)? Just close your eyes and press the button and try to forget it ever happened.
    So either pick evil alignment or at least neutral and do what you want for max power, or if you truly want to roleplay good character, then go with small party and carry Imoen through Underdark until she is restored and allow her to leech 1M+ XP and free her from the party afterwards.

  • BlackbɨrdBlackbɨrd Member Posts: 285
    The justification is clear. Imogen is some kind of incredibly powerful meta-mega-litch. She was returned to an uneasy state of un-life by a powerful casting of pre-release “executive meddling”. The clues all add up
    Chapter 1 = utterly invincible
    Chapter 2 = invisible
    Chapter 3 = haunting your dreams
    Chapter 4 = more dream haunting, no-one else can escape spellhold on their own, she just waltzes right out
    Chapter 5 = reveals her true form as a litch-drow
    Chapter 6 = Bhodi often abducts others close to you, but never imoen because she is already undead
    Chapter 7 = can’t really think of anything for chapter 7 at the moment

    Who's Imogen, is that Imoen's stunt double?

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