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Behlifet strategy on core difficulty (and rant) (mild spoilers)

RafaelLVXRafaelLVX Member Posts: 15
Damn, it took me several hours of dying to Behlifet to figure out he's immune to weapons below +3.

What a ridiculous power. What is the point? Why make a boss immune to 99% of weapons in the game? What if I wanna beat him with a knife or even bare-handed? I know many AD&D monsters had these stupid immunities to weapons but it's just unfair to many characters. Anyone who's not with a super rare weapon shouldn't even be there, no matter how powerful.

So, my main character being a katana user, and not knowing about this caveat, I was only lucky I had some hundred +3 arrows and another hundred +3 bullets, all my characters needed to conform to ranged +3 ammo, because I wouldn't ever land a melee attack on Behlifet otherwise. It was a pretty dull combat, 6 guys shooting arrows forever on him while the aasimar was the only one up close. With that setup, beating Behlifet is trivial, but I couldn't even think of picking the alternative of killing the aasimar myself, it would've been unfeasible.

And while we're at, what a confusing, badly executed twist at the end. I wanted to like those last couple chapters more.

sarevok57PokotaJuliusBorisov

Comments

  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 710
    edited June 20
    1. There is (or at least, used to be) a warning in BG2 against selecting Katana/Wakizashi as your weapon, due to the lack of enchanted weapons and the prevalence of creatures requiring +3 or better to hit. This warning should also be added to BG1EE/SoD if it isn't there
    2. Belhifet is originally the final boss of Icewind Dale, a game which has a higher final level cap and so also has higher power weapons available. He was originally built with the assumption that most, if not all, of your party would have +3 weapons to hit him with (it was entirely possible to have a couple of +5 weapons by that point!). He seems to have been more or less copied over wholesale without any regard for what equipment the party would have.
    3. The plot twist was effectively dictated by the fact that Siege of Dragonspear is supposed to explain how and why the Hero of Baldur's Gate wound up naked and essentially powerless in some weird wizard's dungeon all the way down in Athkatla. Ah, the joys of writing an interquel.

    For the record, I agree that Belhifet is a bad fit for the final battle of Siege of Dragonspear... though that's more because BG1 is traditionally a low-level adventure as opposed to a high-level one. Without Siege of Dragonspear, there are only three or four +3 weapons, three of which are cursed (a two-handed sword of berserking, a morningstar of berserking, and a spear of backbiting)

    ThacoBellsarevok57MoomintrollJuliusBorisov
  • DHolzerDHolzer Member Posts: 1
    There is a scroll of enchanted weapon somewhere, which would set your weapons at +3. My one rant is it is not usable by the primary good aligned arcane npc.

    ThacoBellJuliusBorisov
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,626
    edited June 23
    Pokota wrote: »
    Without Siege of Dragonspear, there are only three or four +3 weapons, three of which are cursed (a two-handed sword of berserking, a morningstar of berserking, and a spear of backbiting)

    There are actually nine: there's those three cursed items, the Sword Sword of Backstabbing +3, the Two-Handed Sword +3, Aule's Staff +3, the Staff of Striking +3, and Drizzt's two scimitars.

    Post edited by OlvynChuru on
    PokotaelminsterJuliusBorisov
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 710
    Well yeah, but as I said before I think Belhifet is a bad fit as the final boss of SoD. Yxunomei would be more in line with the power of Gorion's Ward at that point (even if she's on the wrong side of the Blood War for it to work lore-wise)

    sarevok57ilduderino
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    I had a nightmare with this battle too, eventually reducing the difficulty to Normal as none of my party had viable weapons :( though perhaps I could have scrimped through by relying on the Aasimar and Melf's minute meteors?

    I am curious though and keen to avoid a repeat of this, I still haven't come across a scroll of enchanted weapon, before reaching Amn.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,442
    I had a nightmare with this battle too, eventually reducing the difficulty to Normal as none of my party had viable weapons :( though perhaps I could have scrimped through by relying on the Aasimar and Melf's minute meteors?

    I am curious though and keen to avoid a repeat of this, I still haven't come across a scroll of enchanted weapon, before reaching Amn.

    How did you manage that? There's about half a dozen +3 weapons in BG1, and at least 4 more in SoD. THe game's pretty linear, so I don't know how you'd miss ALL the +3 options.

    Moomintroll
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 564
    To be fair, the +3 weapons are not evenly represented and some if not many are easily missable.
    Plus, some might prefer a +1 or +2 weapon with better secondary effects over a plain +3 weapon.
    Lastly, contrary to late BG2/ToB where you expect such encounters, when you first play through SoD and think this is just a transition before Chateau Irenicus where you only get normal or +1 weapons, you can legitimately be surprised to face such an enemy.

    On the other hand... That is what makes the fight so special, and you are fighting a great demon on his turf after all :wink:

    Moomintroll
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I had a nightmare with this battle too, eventually reducing the difficulty to Normal as none of my party had viable weapons :( though perhaps I could have scrimped through by relying on the Aasimar and Melf's minute meteors?

    I am curious though and keen to avoid a repeat of this, I still haven't come across a scroll of enchanted weapon, before reaching Amn.

    How did you manage that? There's about half a dozen +3 weapons in BG1, and at least 4 more in SoD. THe game's pretty linear, so I don't know how you'd miss ALL the +3 options.

    I was playing Abdel Adrian using the Moron kit, strode into every smithy and exclaimed "gimme the heaviest broadsword you've got!"
    Actually it was just as Monico said, I usually pick up Varscona, Ashideena and maybe the dagger of venom on every play through like its some kind of mantra that cannot be deviated from; I even sold off the staff of striking because I preferred the utility of that new strength staff in SoD.
    I have been doing TotSC content more now I've finally had a chance to play the enhanced edition but it still feels like gagging through some bitter medicine, I've never enjoyed it much, perhaps because it interrupts me just as I am about to take on Sarevok - maybe other folks take it on afterwards.

    Suffice to say, with my slightly more insightful Bard character just finishing up in Durlags tower, he's holding to anything +3 with a vice like grip just in case we come across anything more mythologically endowed in the near future.

    As for SoD, I'm sure you are right and I couldn't even tell you what weapons I finished the game with.. but it was all so new and exciting and went past in a blur!

    ThacoBell
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 710
    edited July 4
    @elminster Out of curiosity, how many of your Icewind Dale characters don't have a +3 weapon or better by the end of the game? (I hate to harp on this same point when you've already responded about it but this is kind of the crux of my issue with Belhifet specifically being the final boss of Siege of Dragonspear)

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 837
    This is the fundamental problem of making an interquel. It needs to slot between BG1 and BG2, but that would have left you fighting a demon with +2 weapons at best. As it stands, you briefly have these +3 weapons, only to be returned to the mundane world of lesser weapons in Amn.

    The only saving grace is that your character is kidnapped, robbed, and taken to a far, far, away city, so it kind of works.

  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 630
    Maurvir wrote: »
    As it stands, you briefly have these +3 weapons, only to be returned to the mundane world of lesser weapons in Amn.

    I don’t think Amn is a world of lesser weapons, you can immediately buy a +4 staff and can find a +3 two handed sword in a sewer (rather than at the bottom of the toughest dungeon in the game)

    ThacoBellmonico
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 837
    ilduderino wrote: »
    Maurvir wrote: »
    As it stands, you briefly have these +3 weapons, only to be returned to the mundane world of lesser weapons in Amn.

    I don’t think Amn is a world of lesser weapons, you can immediately buy a +4 staff and can find a +3 two handed sword in a sewer (rather than at the bottom of the toughest dungeon in the game)

    Sure, you *can*, but you aren't going to be shelling out for those weapons on day 1. Also, unless you already know about Lilarcor (metagame), and are willing to wade through some reasonably tough enemies (for a low level party), it isn't quite as simple as lifting it out of the muck and shining it up.

    Which means most parties in BG2 are going to be getting by on the Sword of Chaos (+2) and maybe a few other +2 weapons they found in ID for a fair bit.

    It's not that big a deal, though, just a bit of a reset. You very quickly get loaded up with practically OP weapons in no time - like the FoA +3. If you visit WK, there are several very nice +4 weapons on the first two levels. I was just pointing out that you get used to working with these really nice weapons, only to get tossed back into a dungeon with lesser weapons at first.

  • monicomonico Member Posts: 564
    Maurvir wrote: »
    Also, unless you already know about Lilarcor (metagame), and are willing to wade through some reasonably tough enemies (for a low level party), it isn't quite as simple as lifting it out of the muck and shining it up.

    I disagree. My very first run of vanilla BG2 was playing a half-orc berzerker with pips in 2 handed weapons, and I remember fondly of stumbling upon Lilarcor almost as soon as I started out of Dungeon Irenicus (and that weapon never left my 6-int half orc, they were brothers).

    When you get out of the dungeon, i'd say that the slavers quest is probably the 2nd quest you'll do in a normal playthrough (the circus tent being the first), since you are really pointed at this particular inn, and talking to the manager or looking around the back door seems like the most logical thing to do in such a big establishment.

    ilduderinoThacoBell
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 630
    I agree with @monico - also in one of the first dungeons (which is forced down your throat if you are a fighter or visit the Copper Coronet), you get the FoA, which stays nice all game. Frankly most early BG2 dungeons have weapons that trump anything you find in the toughest areas of BG. +3 weapons are cheap and on hand at the Copper Coronet

    ThacoBell
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 837
    Oh, I definitely agree on the FoA. Even at +3, it is a nice weapon. When boosted to +4, it is an awesome weapon. My parties all keep that one till the very end.

    This is the first game that they kept Lilarcor, though. It's actually a pretty darn nice +3 weapon, and the humor is a nice touch.

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 930
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I had a nightmare with this battle too, eventually reducing the difficulty to Normal as none of my party had viable weapons :( though perhaps I could have scrimped through by relying on the Aasimar and Melf's minute meteors?

    I am curious though and keen to avoid a repeat of this, I still haven't come across a scroll of enchanted weapon, before reaching Amn.

    How did you manage that? There's about half a dozen +3 weapons in BG1, and at least 4 more in SoD. THe game's pretty linear, so I don't know how you'd miss ALL the +3 options.

    Worth pointing out that if you don't transfer gear to your main character at the end of the first dungeon, you lose much of it. So it's perfectly reasonable that people did not carry many +3 weapons from BG1.

    And there's not that many +3 weapons in SoD, but moreso, there's a number of excellent +2 weapons that people might prefer. Not to mention that some of weapons are actually hidden in one way or another in SoD, so it is possible to miss them.

    I dunno, I love the difficulty of the Belifhet fight. It's exactly how this kind of DLC for hardcore fans should be topped off. But the +3 weapon requirement does seem kind of unfair. No other monster did it before this. Hoarding gear turns the inventory system into a chore. He'd still be a very very difficult encounter without it.

    Pokotamonico
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 710
    On that note, while it is telegraphed that you're going into Avernus by the end of it, it's not telegraphed that those +3 weapons are critical to your success.
    Hoarding gear turns the inventory system into a chore. He'd still be a very very difficult encounter without it.
    Let me tell you about the time I brought zero anti-Werewolf weapons to Werewolf Island...

    monicoDinoDin
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,051
    Pokota wrote: »
    @elminster Out of curiosity, how many of your Icewind Dale characters don't have a +3 weapon or better by the end of the game? (I hate to harp on this same point when you've already responded about it but this is kind of the crux of my issue with Belhifet specifically being the final boss of Siege of Dragonspear)

    No clue. I haven't played Icewind Dale much since 2014.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,299
    elminster wrote: »
    Pokota wrote: »
    @elminster Out of curiosity, how many of your Icewind Dale characters don't have a +3 weapon or better by the end of the game? (I hate to harp on this same point when you've already responded about it but this is kind of the crux of my issue with Belhifet specifically being the final boss of Siege of Dragonspear)

    No clue. I haven't played Icewind Dale much since 2014.

    i still play IWD every once in a while, and for anyone in melee i would say its almost impossible to not have a +3 weapon ( or better ) by that time, first even if you couldn't find one specifically suitored to you, conlan has loads of +3 weapons in his shop

    the exception is the lack of +3 ( or better ) ammo, so unless you know to save it for the last boss, you may have already burned it all up ( like arrows of piercing or inferno darts +4 ) that is again, if you even find that stuff

    ilduderino
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 630
    edited July 9
    There are even +5 weapons available towards the end of IWD, let alone the expansion - often they are not as good as some +4 weapons that have better effects though

  • magaritymagarity Member Posts: 51
    There is an enchanted weapon scroll in one of the barrels of the first basement level of the castle before the party goes to hell. And then even after entering hell there's the one door puzzle demon who offers your choice of 2 different weapons that are +3.
    Is the prologue just a set up for an EE bonus pack that's the hunt for the soultaker dagger?

  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 834
    Used to i always hated the immunity to xy enchantment level thing in bg games. But there werent any mod to solve this, like add all magical weapon to +6 enchantment. But thats offtopic so sorry.

  • RenshtalisRenshtalis Member Posts: 132
    I didnt find it too bad at all. My casters both had enchant weapon so all of my party, including my buffed arachnid avenger, were hitting him pretty darn hard. between Minsc and Argent, they seemed to tank his attacks while everyone else poured on fire or buffed and healed.

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