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No metagame, no reload run questions

Hi, I was wondering how to go about a no reload, no metagame 100% run. I'm in a BG originals phase, so no EE content.

I consider it ok to use the BG wiki for many but not all monsters because the PC grew up in Candlekeep and should have read up on all kinds of monsters (e.g. basilisks). At least about their general abilities. This means that a human would not be considered to be hostile beforehand if it is neutral in-game and no wiki check. Also, a plenty of missed rewards.

Does it seem possible to go through all the content of the BG games this way? For example Shoal seems like a live or die by luck thing. If she somehow gets to an NPC first instead of the PC, but that depends on the PC class. Also, the nasty trap in Spellhold, any self-respecting thief would try do disarm it and get thinner for it. Are there other examples of things like these?

I'd like to have the PC play an active/frontline role in the party (a party of six) but it looks much more likely such a role to lead to a game over. Any realistic way to go for it, say, with a FMT? The Spellhold trap would end that, if he is the trap disarmer. On the other hand, scouting seems compulsory, although not necessarily by the PC.

What would be the best class? I imagine the PC lugging around all kinds of equipment for different scenarios. E.g. having a sword to protect from domination... but if I roleplay it properly I can't really swap weapons mid-round just to get the benificial protection effect as a spell is cast.

Also, I imagine resting after nearly every fight would be more or less compulsory.

Could a berserker or berserker->mage do it? Do I need to use rage every second of every fight? How about any other front-liner? (Think of meeting beholders for the first time without B shield, or mind flayers, or maze). Could FMT do it? Or is the only option a mage/archer/etc staying safely behind and resurrecting inevitable deaths?

I'm thinking more or less vanilla run, no scs, etc, no optimal item collection order, but 100% content playthrough and full party.
gorgonzolamonico

Comments

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Play a dwarven Berserker, a human Berserker dual-classed to mage at level 7, 8, or 9, a fighter/illusionist, or a cleric/illusionist, and you'll have your best odds. Rage immunities go a very long way throughout the game and access to Invisibility will let you avoid all kinds of dangers. Having Stoneskin and PFMW for BG2 is another important buffer.

    Regardless of the class, it's always best to have your main character stick to the back of the line. Resurrection costs a few hundred gold in BG1 and will be free shortly into BG2.
    gorgonzolaJuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehrmonico
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    If you want to roleplay, but still play safe, I would suggest creating your character with relatively low charisma. That will give you a good reason for an NPC to take the lead when first talking to potential enemies - your PC would then not only avoid instant death scenarios, but not be the immediate target of attack if/when things turn hostile.
    JuliusBorisovmonico
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    No, no, no. If you REALLY want to eliminate all metagaming, you can't just pick the most useful/safest class. That's metagming. To really recapture a first, blind, playthrough, you need to RNG that character creation. Random race, stats, class, and proficiencies. We ALL made silly choice on our first playthrough.

    I like that randomization idea. How far would you take it for a still fun gameplay experience ? (and is there a easy-to-use tool to achieve that randomization character or should I just dig up a dice or two and start rolling stuff ?)

    And how would you enforce the no-metagaming aspect (without mods) ? It is hard not to use the metaknowledge I have gathered along the years, but that takes away much of the fun sometimes.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    To not use metaknowledge is easier then it seems, you know, but you know also that your charname is not supposed to know, so you make him move around, act and decide only with the help of what he knows and of some rare in game hints.
    monico
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    There is no way to not meta-game unless you're willing to re-load many times. The odds against you are just too great. Without knowing what you're up against there isn't much chance of even surviving Nimbul's ambush. You'd have to RP a total OCD paranoid to have a chance to survive to Godhood...
    ThacoBellmonico
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    I envision your reality to be in a multiverse where every outcome is equally likely. To survive to the finale of Throne of Bhaal is a one in a million shot but you're in the universe where it happened...
    monico
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    A good thief to scout, a divine caster and an arcane one for protections, a little more care and precautions in dungeons or wild areas where an ambush is more likely and a party can go without relying on metaknowledge.
    There is a clear difference between using protections against spells a mage is likely to use after you have spotted him and memorizing and using a specific protection because the player, but not the party, knows that the next day a certain boss mage will cast a specific spell.
    Permidion_Starkmonico
  • SelerelSelerel Member Posts: 172
    Resurrecting an old thread here, but I often think about metagaming and how it relates to that undisarmable Spellhold smash trap, and what's the "right" RP thing to do.

    I play "minimal reload"...if my main char dies, I reload. If anything else happens, keep chugging along.

    If the PC is your main thief, then I reload after they die the first time (or to be real sensible about it, just avoid the trap in the 1st place). RP reason is, like mentioned above, "looks suspicious"--it really does if you look at it.

    In other cases, I think the only right thing to do is sacrifice whoever your main thief is. Hopefully you were able to pick up Imoen, have another serviceable thief, or can rely on mage spells. I once got out of Spell hold with just my Avenger druid and Nalia, with Jan, Imoen, and Valygar all dying in the escape.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Selerel "In other cases, I think the only right thing to do is sacrifice whoever your main thief is."

    Why is that? You have a trap pinging in between two unique walls that very obviously stand out. It seems pretty obvious to me.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @jmerry I see your point. I agree.
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 1,090
    Yeah, that trap was a bit of a jerk move. Yes, it is pretty obviously a trap, however, up to this point, the worst thing that happened if you failed to disarm a trap was that it was still active. What makes this trap jerky is that attempt itself is fatal. If you aren't save scumming, you just lost your thief without warning.

    That said, this is old-school DnD, where you didn't always get a warning. The machine of Lum the Mad is a good example of this. You really did risk a great deal messing around with that thing beyond the known settings on the scrolls.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    Even if I try to run no metagame as possible I think that particular trap is an exception as it is scripted to have 0% chance to be disarmed and 100% chance to kill, thing that afaik happens only with it.
    It is more a trap for the first time player then a trap for the party, so with it I use metagame knowledge and I avoid it or send some cheap summon to trigger it and disable it.
    It is true that those walls look suspicious, but even so you can guess that there is a trap, not that there is a trap scripted to kill you and impossible to disable.
    I am pretty sure that ALL the players that went there the first time without clue had someone killed by it, the only ones spared was the ones that for some reason had some summon still alive after the battle with the yun ti group and that sent the summons before the party.

    IMO to play avoiding metagame knowledge makes the game more interesting and challenging, but in the case of the traps it is different. It has no sense at all when you are at your 10th or 100th run of the game to have your thief check for traps areas where you perfectly know that there are no traps, our RL gaming time is limited and it has no sense at all wasting it for such silly things, while to avoid a trap that is not detected because you know it is there, or to pre buff for a battle that you can't have clue is going to happen is completely different.

    We should use the no metagame attitude as a way to make the game more interesting and challenging, not become prisoners of that attitude, I don't feel "guilty" at all when i send a summon in that particular trap...
    Selerel
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    That trap isn't scripted to kill, it just does damage. I agree it's highly likely to kill less robust characters like mages, but it won't typically kill higher level warriors. I was about to say that nor will it kill most of your party if you use a scout, but one of the unfair points about the trap is that it affects an area greater than the trap itself - so it is possible to have characters killed that reasonably believe they are outside its area of effect..
    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    I was really convinced that there where no chance to survive to it, good to know it, thank you!
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    edited October 2020
    Of course if you do send a whole party through in a group, they are all likely to die as the trap will be triggered multiple times ...
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