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Shaman Spell Pick Order

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Comments

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,927
    If you really want to change spells you can easily do that using EEKeeper.

    ThacoBell
  • ElrandirElrandir Member Posts: 1,657
    Any chance we'll see those 7th level spells? Or a version of the guide for IWD?

  • ElrandirElrandir Member Posts: 1,657
    Entirely understandable. Congratulations on the little one!

    JuliusBorisovmonico
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,290
    I have a son on the way
    spoiler alert please :D

    JuliusBorisovgorgonzolaRaduzielHempz
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 571
    @Hempz very insightful. What spells would you really change if you were playing solo ?

    JuliusBorisov
  • HempzHempz Member Posts: 15
    edited January 2020
    @monico sure!
    Shaman Solo
    I haven't played solo with SCS though I believe that should I try the list would be the same.

    I. [1, 1, 3, 5, 7]
    Cure LW, Entangle, Doom, Bless, Armor of Faith
    // Here I switch order because Entangle and Doom are needed on first levels and Bless - only later on to buff summons.

    II. [4, 5, 7, 9, 11]
    Charm PoM, Flameblade, Find Traps, Prot. from F&C, Barskin
    // There's no use for Slow Poison (you have potions and bhaalspawn abilities) so change it for Find Traps - to buff yourself before setting them off.
    Flameblade offers acceptable damage only before you get more damaging weapon so I take it earlier.
    One more thing to mention here - the Writhing Fog spell. By gods it's awesome! Shaman is immune to it, as well as his spirits. So you throw it at feet in every single battle (unless there are neutrals around) until mid SoA. The casting is very fast (2), duration is decent (1 turn), enemies can get slowed, casters get interrupted - what else is needed? It's perfect for 2nd spell lvl.

    III. [6, 7, 9, 11, 22]
    Summon Insects, Call Lightning, Dispel Magic, Cure Disease, Prot. from Fire
    // When soloing Summon Insects is used not only for interrupting casters, but is more considered as a damaging spell. Because of constantly ticking damage it effectively slows foes' movement so that it is easier to kite them. I also used it against trolls and werewolves to counter their regeneration. Hence it's the #1 pick.
    All deseases you might meet in BG1 are cured with Potion of Health, no blindness there. So you can take it on 11th in BG2.
    Dispel Magic for solo adventure is an offensive spell and you will need it in mid and late BG1.
    Before PfF you have to combine either 2 of ring, potion and PfF&C. Ring slots are valuable, time for buffs is limited, so I prefer to have 1 spell for full immunity. Despite its description the spell provides 100% fire res.

    IV. [8, 9, 11, 13, 23]
    Call WB, Defensive Harmony, Prot. from Lightning, Neg. Plane Prot., Death Ward
    // #1 and #2 are essential hands down.
    Prot. from Lightning is nice to have against traps but you can use potions in that cases. Other sources of lightning damage are also very rare.
    Neg. Plane Prot. isn't needed for yourself (Amulet of Power) but is highly desired for your tanking summons as they have bad AC and are susceptible to energy drain. On the other hand you can tank vampires yourself and let your summons act as damage dealers only. And of course you might want to side with Bodhi after all.
    There are two other spells worth taking at this lvl. The first is Poison, see my previous post. Another one is Farsight which allows some tactics inaccessible otherwise.

    V. [10, 11, 13, 15, 28]
    Iron Skins, Insect Plague, Chaotic Commands, Pixie Dust, Magic Resistance.
    // The first 3 spells are must have. Following my discourse on the last spell choice it is obvious that TS isn't needed much.
    If you want to use MR spell as a debuff, take it on 15lvl. The easiest way to kill Iron and Adamantite golems: buff Iron Skins, cast MR on a golem, Harm it and land a final hit. Repeat if Harm resisted or if you miss. SCS golems cast poisonous clouds and will unlikely let you do that. So better safely kill them with Sling of Everard as they are usually stuck in an aperture. If you happen to deal with them in an open space, Boots of Speed + Potion of Speed + Energy Blades will do the work.
    Back to MR: if you want to use it for its intended purpose, it doesn't stack (at least in my current setup) with bonuses from items, but does stack with Potion of Magic Protection.
    Mass Cure is not very useful. It heals too little and doesn't help much in the midst of battle. Even if you heal 30 hp per summon, in later game it is one or two hits for most enemies. By that time I usually use summons as meatshields to save time for myself to eliminate enemies. If I really want to save my summon, I just Heal it via spell or a wand. On the other hand, you may want to walk around surrounded with 5 summons, buffing and healing them.

    VI. [12, 13, 15, 21, 30]
    Fire Elemental, Heal, Conjure Animals, Harm, Wondrous Recall.
    // Fire Seeds changed to Conjure Animals. I favor it over Animal Summoning III because the latter is weaker as it can summon lions and winter wolves along with bears. CA calls forth 1 to 3 (usually 2) mountain bears. They are not very tanky but are good damage dealers. So I usually tank with Elemental and back him up with bears.

    VII. [14, 15, 17, 22, 31]
    Shield of Archons, Fire Storm, Creeping Doom, Nature's Beauty, Regeneration.
    // On this level the order mostly depends on what threats you find most dangerous.
    Confusion is a decent spell, but our Nymph can cast so why bother. Nature's Beauty is a legal cheat.

    Post edited by Hempz on
    monicoJuliusBorisovgorgonzola
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    @Hempz, what do you think about pick order of HLA spells and it's usefulness?

    JuliusBorisov
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,741
    edited May 2020
    Strangely enough, the IWD shaman does not have Resist Fire/Cold (level 2) in its spell choice list. Don't know if it's intended or a bug.

  • RigelRigel Member Posts: 223
    @Hempz I have started playing a shaman. Nice class, I like it very much.
    I just wondered if with SPS IWD divine spells add in BG, you would change your spell list or you would stick with the original BG spells ?
    BTW, HNY to everyone !

  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 297
    edited January 1
    I suppose that the list would have to be changed significantly. There si no way that conjure animal would be there instead of Entropy Shield. This should be the first pick as level six spell. Other spells to consider are Sunscorch, Alicron Lance, Spike Growth, Static Charge, Impervious Sanctity of Mind.

    BlackravenRigelJuliusBorisov
  • RigelRigel Member Posts: 223
    I was wondering about Sunscorch. Is it worth ? I plan to bring my shaman until TOB, so woth all the undeads in SoD and SoA, it may be useful ?

  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 297
    I would take it. It has chance to blind opponent. Duration is short but blindness is so strong effect that it is worth. What else is there to pick? Armor of Faith and Doom are almost mandatory, then there is Bless, Curse and Entangle. Bless and Curse can be cast be clerics and Entangle is quickly overshadowed by Web (if you play with party which includes arcane caster.) .

    RigelTrouveurJuliusBorisov
  • RigelRigel Member Posts: 223
    @velehal OK thank you. I will try it.

  • RigelRigel Member Posts: 223
    edited January 3
    I have read that people do not consider highly the 1st level spell spirit ward. I play with SCS where every wizard uses liberally the Sleep spell, and spirit ward has already saved my life two times, first one being the encounter with bloody Tarnesh at the FAI...

    Adam_en_tiumBlackravenStummvonBordwehrJuliusBorisov
  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 132
    velehal wrote: »
    I suppose that the list would have to be changed significantly. There si no way that conjure animal would be there instead of Entropy Shield. This should be the first pick as level six spell. Other spells to consider are Sunscorch, Alicron Lance, Spike Growth, Static Charge, Impervious Sanctity of Mind.
    Sunscorch is really good even at first level, the blind is so useful, and the damages are OK and great against undeads.
    Alicorn Lance is also a very nice debuffer.

    Spike Growth combined with Web and Withering Fog is an easy win against most groups. Mold Touch is also a nice alternative to Call Lightning for single foe indoor.

    Level 4 spells are hard to choose because they are many good ones : Static Charge is indeed a very powerful damage dealer, but Moonwall is nice against evil undead, Smashing Wave can stun, the SCS version of Thorn Spray is also OK.

    JuliusBorisovAdam_en_tium
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 788
    Rigel wrote: »
    I have read that people do not consider highly the 1st level spell spirit ward. I play with SCS where every wizard uses liberally the Sleep spell, and spirit ward has already saved my life two times, first one being the encounter with bloody Tarnesh at the FAI...

    It's mostly a matter of "how useful will this spell be across the entire saga" since the Shaman can't change their picks mid-game like Bards/Wizards can. On the arcane side, Sleep has the same problem: it is an excellent spell at level 1 that should never be in a Sorceror's spellbook.

    Trouveur
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,703
    If you started your sorcerer at level 1 ... of course Sleep should be in the spellbook. I just finished a run with a sorcerer (dragon disciple) protagonist, and the only level spell he used at all in the late game was Shield. And that was rare, since he had Spirit Armor and PfME up full-time. Shield was only cast on those rare occasions when he wanted missile AC.
    Meanwhile, having Sleep was fantastic for the first part of BG1, until he could throw fireballs around instead to just kill those packs of low-level enemies.
    (Final list of level 1 spells for that character: (L1) Sleep, Burning Hands, (L3) Blindness, (L5) Magic Missile, (L7) Shield.)

    Since basically all of your level 1 spells are going to go obsolete anyway, why not pick something that dominates early?

    As for Spirit Ward on a Shaman ... you don't have to pick it. It's in your spellbook automatically.
    Hempz wrote: »
    Mass Raise Dead
    One good thing about this spell is that after resurrecting it heals 3d10+1 (why in the world smn added this +1 Oo). Anyway I don't remember any situation when I raised anyone until a battle is over. Once raised a chatacter has to pick up all equipment, heal, buff - it takes a lot of time. Unless I play hardcore there's no need for this spell.
    Actually, it's better than you might think. Mass Raise Dead has a much faster casting time than other resurrection spells, making it practical for use in battle. And in 2.5, it's bugged to apply its healing once for each member of the party. In a full party, everyone gets 18d10+6*level healing. Most likely, that will heal everyone to full.
    Casting speed 2, raise all dead party members and heal all party members to full? Absolutely, sign me up.

    The drawback is another bug ... the sequencer bug. Casting this spell, in 2.5, will remove the activation ability for any creature-targeted sequencers, while leaving the effect that marks which spells are in the sequencer so you can't cast a new one. Only killing and raising that character or editing the save can fix this.

    2.6 fixes the sequencer bug and apparently does something to the healing; I'm not sure of the details since I don't have the beta myself.

    JuliusBorisovGrond0Adam_en_tium
  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 132
    jmerry wrote: »
    If you started your sorcerer at level 1 ... of course Sleep should be in the spellbook. I just finished a run with a sorcerer (dragon disciple) protagonist, and the only level spell he used at all in the late game was Shield. And that was rare, since he had Spirit Armor and PfME up full-time. Shield was only cast on those rare occasions when he wanted missile AC.
    Meanwhile, having Sleep was fantastic for the first part of BG1, until he could throw fireballs around instead to just kill those packs of low-level enemies.
    (Final list of level 1 spells for that character: (L1) Sleep, Burning Hands, (L3) Blindness, (L5) Magic Missile, (L7) Shield.)

    Since basically all of your level 1 spells are going to go obsolete anyway, why not pick something that dominates early?
    I Don't know if it is because I play with SCS but I disagree on Sleep. In SCS BG1 this spell is soon obsolete with most foes being level 5 or more.
    Beside, there is some wands of sleep available early on to do the job.
    Some level 1 spells remain useful during the entire saga : Magic Missile, Shield (for its protection against Magic Missile and Mordenkainen's Force Missiles), Spook (thanks to its increasing saving throws penalty), Grease (still can be used to slow enemies), Identify...

    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,699
    Mass Raise Dead in 2.6 does only what it intends to do: raises dead. It doesn't heal living creatures.

    Adam_en_tium
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,703
    Trouveur wrote: »
    I Don't know if it is because I play with SCS but I disagree on Sleep. In SCS BG1 this spell is soon obsolete with most foes being level 5 or more.
    Beside, there is some wands of sleep available early on to do the job.
    Some level 1 spells remain useful during the entire saga : Magic Missile, Shield (for its protection against Magic Missile and Mordenkainen's Force Missiles), Spook (thanks to its increasing saving throws penalty), Grease (still can be used to slow enemies), Identify...

    I play with SCS too. There are enemies that are too high a level for Sleep, or protected, even early in the game - but there are also large packs of enemies that are vulnerable. Kobolds, hobgoblins, bandits. Especially against the archers, having an AoE answer to take them out of the fight is very useful.

    A wand of Sleep is not an adequate substitute for arcane Sleep. It doesn't have a save penalty, so enemies make their saves significantly more often. I tried that out in my no-spellcasting party ... once or twice, before giving it up as useless. Even a party that wasn't allowed to memorize and cast Sleep decided not to use the wand.

    Shield? I already noted how that spell played for me. Worth having, not something I cast often.

    Grease? The description is a lie. It doesn't slow at all unless a save is failed. Still an AoE debuff at spell level 1 that isn't level-capped, but the save bonus limits its usefulness.

    Spook? Would have been useful. Not in line with the run's fire theme, but I did resort to fear effects in order to take out Firkraag before Spellhold. I probably should have taken it in place of Burning Hands despite the theme, and shuffled the order I took spells in.

    Identify? Between lore identification (sometimes boosted by Int potions) and the glasses, you don't need the spell at all in BG2. Even if Nalia with her 9 wisdom is the only character that gets more than one point of lore per level.

    PokotaTrouveur
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 788
    I agree with you on Identify, but that's mostly because I always have room for a bard. The rest gets an Insightful.

    Trouveur
  • RigelRigel Member Posts: 223
    Hi - I come back to Shaman spells. I wonder - if I get Sanctuary (thanks to Tweaks Anthology) woiuld my shaman be able to dance and be protected during 1 turn? WOuld the dance break the sanctuary ?

  • RigelRigel Member Posts: 223
    OK I have tried, and the good news is that it doesn't break the sanctuary. So with SCS, it should help, because the archers will not aim their arrows at the dancing shaman !

    Grond0
  • RigelRigel Member Posts: 223
    edited April 20
    But there are bad news as well ... You can invoke spirits, but they will just stay there and will not do anything. So it is sure cannon fodder but I guess that because you are invisible in the sanctuary they will not attack your opponents ...so I am a bit disappointed ...should I still chose Sanctuary as Shaman spell ? Perhaps with the detection illusion ability it may be intereting ?

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