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BGEE class opinions

Hello all, first of all, I play mobile version without mods / "official" addons.
Warriors
Its just me or game hates warriors and other weapons than swords? Other than varscona, there are no good weapons in game until fair late game. Maybe bassilus hammer is worthy too, but thats all. Except that, they have very easy start, with decent str roll.
Druids
Meh choice, poor combat, worse spells. They are good at lvl 9+. Only considerable druid is totemic.

I wont list other classes, I prefer to play mages on PC modded version, but honestly, warriors needs to be boosted by better availability of other weapons. Not sure about brage sword, didnt tried it. But what about dagger warrior? :D
Im thinking about creating some balance mod.
Now summons come to my mind. In BGEE, they might be fine, until very late, or SoD. This should be modified like I copy creature, make allegiance ally, change to summoned gender and edid 2da file? Im also open for discussions and tips. Currently I play human warrior on mobile, with flais specialisation.

Comments

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,921
    BGEE is essentially a game for low-level characters, so you wouldn't expect it to be stuffed with powerful magic weapons. However, there are in fact a fair range of those. Other than the ones you mention, you can also buy a +3 staff and a +2 dagger of venom right from the start of the game - you can make a decent case for both of those being the most powerful melee weapon in BGEE. The real strength of warriors in BGEE though is with missile weapons, so you might want to experiment with playing your character mainly at range - for instance if you equip a bow-user with acid arrows, even powerful enemies will go down in seconds.

    If you want more powerful druid spells at low level, you might want to look at the avenger kit. That also increases the range of shapeshifting you can do.

    StummvonBordwehrVicissitudeAerakarJuliusBorisov
  • konvakonva Member Posts: 40
    Well, in certain points all is true. But if you specialize in flails, you can absolutely forget about killing flesh golems, and mustard jellies. Mine point of enhancing the game is just add some +1 weapons available more early. That was the point. Getting magic weapons as warrior forces you to use swords or some other shitty magical ones. Warrior with daggers?

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,667
    No, there are plenty of +1 flails and morning stars out there. You can get a +1 flail from the fishermen on the farm north of the Friendly Arm (either help them, kill them, or just steal it), and that's something that can be done very early if you know what you're doing. They're not the best in the late game; the only flails/morning stars better than a vanilla +1 are a vanilla +2 you can buy in the big city, and a cursed +3 deep in Durlag's Tower that you'll probably never want to use. Still, they're perfectly fine. BGEE does a pretty good job of smoothing things out so there are good weapon choices in almost every category; generic +1s are widely available, and there's one or two weapons better than that in each proficiency group.

    But as stated already, warriors in BG1 really get strongest with bows. For example, in my latest run - which was built with a mage protagonist and specifically themed around killing enemies with fire spells - the party slot with the highest experience from kills was the archer spot held by Kivan in chapters 1-3 and then Coran in chapters 4-7. That's without the massive damage from elemental arrows, since I used a mod that reduced their power. I gave the mage all the advantages, and the archer still beat him out.

    And a warrior with daggers? It's a surprisingly solid choice. Throwing daggers get two attacks per round base, and deal strength bonus damage. Daggers aren't the best for raw physical damage, but they're very good at delivering powerful on-hit effects. The Dagger of Venom in BG1 hits enemies with heavy poison, and Pixie Prick in BG2 forces enemies to save or fall unconscious on every hit. When you need the damage ... well, that's what strength bonuses are for. Even if you don't have a lot of strength naturally, there are potions for that. And only warriors can use the stronger strength potions.

    As for druids ... they level fast in BG1, and level 7 at 35K XP brings a lot of power. Call Woodland Beings is an incredibly powerful spell, and that's when your shapeshifting options come online. Unless you went Shapeshifter, in which case werewolf form is an absolute beast right from level 1. Who needs spells when you hit harder than all but the strongest warriors?

    AerakarJuliusBorisov
  • konvakonva Member Posts: 40
    Well, in certain points all is true. But you as warrior are forced to specialize in certain styles. Varscona is imo strongest weapon in whole bgee. I cant remember the early good axe. Ofc bows are very strong, i agree with that. Not sure about acid arrows.

    Multiclass is truly powergaming, but fighter/mage/cleric? Strong indeed, but you cant level decently, you are limited to cleric proficiences, and ofc no armor.

    Never tried shapeshifter, but for example, classic druid? Really not good choice for BGEE. Woodland being might be nice, but the only spell. Avenger or totemic druid looks slightly better.

    About weapons, not all categories have their top weapons. Varscona is good, short sword of backstabbing is aweome. But flails are only +2 max. Not sure about crossbows, but definitely I try to respec to bow probably. Or I might start over and try something new as warrior. If you pick wrong proficiency, you just cant kill flesh golems, jellies and other monsters which requirec magic weapons.

    What about mages and their summoning spells? Or animal summoning spells?

  • konvakonva Member Posts: 40
    well, then you are player who likes to return to previous areas.. For example, if you put pips into dart + something like bastart swords, you have to skil golems and jellies until later levels. I usually wanna full clear the whole area and not to return. If you put pips bad after naskhel mines, you are forced to use varscona with khalid, who sucks hard. I started with flails + shield style because I wana continue to SoD and SoA. And btw, never playerd warriors, only mages :)

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,921
    Warriors have good THAC0 and low penalties for non-proficiency. That means if your chosen weapon can't hurt a mustard jelly, there's no problem at all in picking up one of the multitude available of magical swords, flails, staffs, axes etc to do the job

  • VicissitudeVicissitude Member Posts: 18
    edited January 28
    My message is gone, not sure why but I wrote it again. Sorry about this.
    konva wrote: »
    Well, in certain points all is true. But you as warrior are forced to specialize in certain styles.

    Are you? Warriors get more weapon proficiency points than any other class. They start off with four pips and keep getting more at a faster rate than others. With this, you can either reach grand mastery asap to get more damage/an extra APR or diversify. Since most benefits come when you become specialized, it's totally viable to allocate two points in any weapon you want without intensive planning. The margin of error is indeed permissive. That is why warriors are recommended to new players, they specialize at level 1 in one melee weapon, one ranged weapon and they're fine whatever they choose next.

    Also, let's not forget warriors are one of the best to dual from and that brings lots of different playstyles. It's also convenient if you grow tired of the fighter class but don't want to start all over again.

    So in conclusion, whether you're well-versed in the game mechanics or just doing you first playthrough warriors are extremely versatile and useful in BG1. You're not "forced" to do anything.
    konva wrote: »
    well, then you are player who likes to return to previous areas.. For example, if you put pips into dart + something like bastart swords, you have to skil golems and jellies until later levels. I usually wanna full clear the whole area and not to return. If you put pips bad after naskhel mines, you are forced to use varscona with khalid, who sucks hard. I started with flails + shield style because I wana continue to SoD and SoA. And btw, never playerd warriors, only mages :)

    There are smart solutions to those problems and if you're a warrior you can still use a weapon you're not really gifted with because your base THACO is good enough. Think out of the box or suffer a THACO penalty, either way it's doable!

  • konvakonva Member Posts: 40
    Ok i got the points.. i havent much knowledge regarding fighters... i played only mages. Now lets switch to summoning spells.. not only mage conjurations but also priest and druid.
    Monster summoning 1-3.. those are weak relatively, not bad in bgee.. bad in bg2ee. Animal summons sre slightly better.

  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 857
    There is not much special weapons cause of low leve campaing. Varscona and Burning Earth long swords, the Arshideena warhammer, the Spider’s Bane two hander, Stupifer mace,Bala’s Axe, Albruin bastard Sword, Dagger of Venom.

  • konvakonva Member Posts: 40
    Yeah i know. But in beregost shoud be more +1 weapons available too.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,288
    edited January 28
    There are probably not that many planted there because the plot is about the iron crisis. If you can find magical weapons too early you do not get to experience the iron crisis consequences much, which is that weapons have a tendency to break.

    It is only +x thac0 and damage, that should not be limiting you from dealing damage except for maybe the thac0 poor classes.

  • konvakonva Member Posts: 40
    lroumen wrote: »
    There are probably not that many planted there because the plot is about the iron crisis. If you can find magical weapons too early you do not get to experience the iron crisis consequences much, which is that weapons have a tendency to break.

    It is only +x thac0 and damage, that should not be limiting you from dealing damage except for maybe the thac0 poor classes.

    Well, thats a good point, didnt looked that way, cuz Im mage :D

  • VicissitudeVicissitude Member Posts: 18
    edited January 28
    konva wrote: »
    Yeah i know. But in beregost shoud be more +1 weapons available too.

    It'd pretty boring if you could find all the best weapons in the first major city you go to. As far as I'm concerned, I want them scattered. Some weapons will be harder to get than others and that's fine, it makes for a more interesting game. Now knowing what you could find on your travels is bread and butter for roleplaying. Once you beat the game and start again, it's also fun to reroute to get whatever weapon asap. Standardize the access of weapons and you lose all that.

    Again, you really don't need to rush +1 weapons. You can easily go around them.

  • konvakonva Member Posts: 40
    Ok Ok :)

    Whats your opinion about summons in bgee/sod/soa+tob?

  • VicissitudeVicissitude Member Posts: 18
    That's a broad question.

    The basis is that summons are mostly used to distract your enemies and soak up damage. Rarely will they pose a serious threat. It's usually best to send them forth while you buff up or attack from a distance.

    You should summon the monsters that counter whoever's attacking you. For instance, skeleton (warriors) are very useful against casters and archers due to their innate resistances. On the other hand, you might want to skip them if your opponents wield crushing weapons because they'll get blown to pieces fast.

    So learn the characteristics of your summoned friends and use them wisely.

  • konvakonva Member Posts: 40
    That's a broad question.

    The basis is that summons are mostly used to distract your enemies and soak up damage. Rarely will they pose a serious threat. It's usually best to send them forth while you buff up or attack from a distance.

    You should summon the monsters that counter whoever's attacking you. For instance, skeleton (warriors) are very useful against casters and archers due to their innate resistances. On the other hand, you might want to skip them if your opponents wield crushing weapons because they'll get blown to pieces fast.

    So learn the characteristics of your summoned friends and use them wisely.

    well, I played on ToB summoner, honestly all summons except demons or angels sucks.. Fire giants smash them all really fast for example. MS3 is decent in BG 1 part, during SoD it gets little worse and in BG2 content it varies on chapter progress... wywern, carrion crawlers should be slightly better summons. Elemental summons are good, only from druid. Mages have certain rick about loosing mental combat. Planetar summon is very good. Able to kill even dragons if lucky.

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,323
    One thing no reload/limited reload runs taught me is the value of warrior classes. Plenty of people have made great points on the weapon styles -- the game has a decently broad options. Tho it's true, not every weapon class is well-represented, unlike in SoA.

    One key is that warriors are better if you're not rest-spamming. On limited reload, one of the most dangerous things you can do in the early levels is rest outdoors. You can be attacked from any direction, sometimes by ranged, leaving your squishy characters vulnerable. Having a good representation of warriors in the party, coupled with buying and using health potions, allows you to make long sojourns in BG1 without having to rest constantly outside, and thus expose your party. I actually think BG1 has a strong bias towards a high inclusion of warrior-types in comparison to SoA or ToB.

    StummvonBordwehrJuliusBorisov
  • FrozenCellsFrozenCells Member Posts: 385
    Magical melee weapons available early in the game:
    +2 dagger (Nashkel mine exit from Half-Orc cleric dude - i think it's east from outside Nashkel mines)
    Dagger of Venom (Beregost)
    +2 shortsword (south of High Hedge)
    Stupifier mace (Beregost)
    Varscona sword
    Ashideena warhammer (from Bassilus)
    +1 halberd (near Gnoll Stronghold)
    +1 staff, spear (I think?), bastard sword, long sword, battle axe (Beregost)
    +1 flail (west from Nashkel)
    +1 morningstar (Gullykin, Nashkel mine exit map)
    Moonblade (Xan)
    +2 scimitar (Cloakwood 2, fairly early unless you do all the wilderness maps)
    +1 2h sword (north of Nashkel carnival? I think)
    +2 club (Cloakwood 3)

    Druid is ok at early level - the kits are all very powerful in BG1, Shapeshifter is too good once you get the Shield Amulet from Nashkel carnival. At level 1 you have Shillelagh abd level 3 you get Flame Blade weapon spells. Put an offhand weapon like Dagger of Venom and you get 2 attacks with good THAC0.

  • masteralephmasteraleph Member Posts: 147
    In addition to those @FrozenCells listed, I'll note that the +3 staff is available for purchase in Ulgoth's Beard at a surprisingly cheaper price, all things considered. That's not "early game" if you're focusing on going south, but it's pretty easily accessible nevertheless.

  • konvakonva Member Posts: 40
    Magical melee weapons available early in the game:
    +2 dagger (Nashkel mine exit from Half-Orc cleric dude - i think it's east from outside Nashkel mines)
    Dagger of Venom (Beregost)
    +2 shortsword (south of High Hedge)
    Stupifier mace (Beregost)
    Varscona sword
    Ashideena warhammer (from Bassilus)
    +1 halberd (near Gnoll Stronghold)
    +1 staff, spear (I think?), bastard sword, long sword, battle axe (Beregost)
    +1 flail (west from Nashkel)
    +1 morningstar (Gullykin, Nashkel mine exit map)
    Moonblade (Xan)
    +2 scimitar (Cloakwood 2, fairly early unless you do all the wilderness maps)
    +1 2h sword (north of Nashkel carnival? I think)
    +2 club (Cloakwood 3)

    Druid is ok at early level - the kits are all very powerful in BG1, Shapeshifter is too good once you get the Shield Amulet from Nashkel carnival. At level 1 you have Shillelagh abd level 3 you get Flame Blade weapon spells. Put an offhand weapon like Dagger of Venom and you get 2 attacks with good THAC0.

    All is true, Also in beregost is composite bow+1, but cant remember good heavy crossbows.
    Good warriors in bgee are those you make yourself, maybe dorn is considerable. Khalid is meh.. :D
    As mage, fairy long you can just spam sleep even on ogres and win with ranged party. On harder groups web is solution. In final chapters your mage has decent spells, cleric has good control spells like hold person. Druid is not bad when you pick totemic(extra early summon), but imagine jaheira is pure druid. Pure unkitted druid is horrible choice.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,667
    konva wrote: »
    Khalid is meh..
    Just spec him as an archer. Three dots in longbows, the longsword specialization he starts with, and he's a devastating damage dealer. His stats aren't perfect, but ... well, 15 strength is enough to wear any armor, 16 Dex is good for at least some bonus to AC and THAC0, and only the evil dwarf Kagain can beat his 17 Con. You might want to buff his strength so he can equip a composite longbow, but that doesn't have to be permanent - the level 3 priest spell Strength of One and the level 2 mage spell Strength are good for this. Reapply and re-equip at every level-up, and you're good.
    I'd rank him as the second-best NPC archer in the campaign, behind only Coran's outright illegal build.
    konva wrote: »
    ...but imagine jaheira is pure druid. Pure unkitted druid is horrible choice.
    Jaheira isn't a pure druid. She's a fighter/druid, which is a whole different beast. No restrictions on armor and shields, the ability to specialize in weapons, and the only weapon restriction that really hurts is the inability to use bows. Limited spellcasting, but you still get to druid level 8 for as many spell slots as a full cleric in the long run.

    The pure druid NPC choice is Faldorn (available in the Cloakwood), and the exclusive perk full druids get (regardless of kit) is the ability to cast 5th level divine spells in the BGEE campaign. Imagine opening a battle with True Seeing and Insect Plague ... you can do that with her, or any other full druid, at the XP cap. They're the best healers you can get in BGEE, because they have both more levels than clerics and an extra high-quality healing spell in Call Woodland Beings. They don't get Raise Dead, but clerics don't either. They don't get Restoration, but nothing drains levels. So - no flaws, just the best at healing.
    If you're willing to tinker with NPC kits, Faldorn also fits really well as an Avenger.

    Off-hand weapons ... I really wouldn't recommend that on any character that doesn't have two-weapon specialization. Melee THAC0 is very much a limiting factor, and it's not going to be "good" with -2/-6 penalties or worse. And the shapeshift weapons outright forbid off-hand weapons in the current game versions. If you want to hit things in melee as a shapeshifter, you turn into a werewolf and just use the paws. Trust me, they're plenty good enough.

    While the druid kits all have their good points, they also all have real drawbacks in BG1. Shapeshifters and Avengers can't wear ankheg plate. Totemic druids can't turn into bears and maul their opponents (3 APR, 18/00 strength so the damage is good). It's a real tradeoff, and the vanilla druid is a perfectly reasonable middle ground.
    konva wrote: »
    Also in beregost is composite bow+1, but cant remember good heavy crossbows.
    The two notable (better than a basic +1) crossbows in the game:
    - Light crossbow of speed +1, available for purchase in Beregost. +1 attack, +1 damage, +1 APR.
    - Heavy crossbow of accuracy +2, available from an enemy in Baldur's Gate if you kill Aldeth Sashenstar. +5 attack, +2 damage.

    Light and heavy crossbows use the same proficiency; the only difference is that non-fighter thieves can't use the heavy kind.
    Because APR is king, the light crossbow of speed is the best. Anyone that can use a crossbow can use it. It gets as many attacks as a bow, but the ammo selection is worse. No dispelling or detonation, no bonus to hit on the elemental ammo, and hardly any monsters carry crossbows and ammo for you to pick up when you kill them. Then you get less of a bonus to hit and to damage ... I'd take three archers before I went looking for one crossbowman in BGEE.

    JuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehr
  • konvakonva Member Posts: 40
    Well I know Jaheira is fighter druid, And yes I didnt noticed that clerics cant reach level 9 lol. But at least they can wear heavy armor, and with control spells or nice support spells... As warriors, I always pick at least 18/95 str with 18 CON, if human. If Half Orc, you can get 19 both str and con, making him huge tank and huge wrecking ball. As Khalid strenght, what about when str boost spells expires? Still can use that bow? If yes and you need to recast it after each level to reuse it, then I consider this as cheat.

    As druid spell tiers... tier 2 is really suck. Only notable is slow poison and charm... nothing else is usefull. (In IWD he at least get allicorn lance). Totemic druid trades his shapeshifting skills to get decent summon, while keeping his spellcasting abilites.

    Clerics has silence, hold person, draw upon holy might... on second tier. Pretty awesome, much more help for humanoid enemies.

    Still I prefer play mages, tier 1 - sleep is OP, shield, familiar. Sleep carries up to bandit camp I suppose. At level 2 he has web, or decent combat spells like mirror image, melf arrow. At level 3 spells he got same hold person, but here I prefer some fireballs / arrows, or some meat shields. Since in BGEE he can reach up to level 5, hes pretty strong summoner, MS3 is not bad in BGEE, also some usefull spells like greater malison, emotions.. while some spells in BGEE arent much useful until SoD part. Yes, mage truly shines in BG2 part. But there also his summons get much weaker except planetar.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,667
    The druid armor restriction isn't exactly "light armor only". It's "no metal armor". And that means ankheg plate and later dragon scale armors are allowed. Ankheg plate is nearly a match for full plate in protective capability, and you can pick up a set that isn't even guarded. Or, once you have the gold, commission another set. So, unkitted and totemic druids can be very well armored in BGEE. They're only really lacking in shield selection compared to clerics; you won't get a druid-usable shield that gives more than 1 to AC until SoD.

    Druid level 2 spells ... all right, yes, they're weak. But I'd definitely put both Barkskin and Resist Fire and Cold on the "useful" list. My current party, at over 2 million XP, still makes heavy use of Resist Fire and Cold from their two druids. And even from the cleric as well, despite all the other things he can spend level 2 spell slots on.
    Incidentally, there are a few mods out there that add IWD spells to the Baldur's Gate series. These are of particular note for druids, because of that dearth of good spells at low levels.

    The trick with temporary stat boosts to equip items is that the usage requirements are only checked when you first equip them, then re-checked when you level up - any items you don't meet the requirements for are dropped at this point. If you don't like it? Fine, then don't use it. It's not like being unable to use composite longbows is a problem for an archer, unless you have a second longbow archer in the party that also doesn't have 18 strength. And even that stops being a problem when you can afford to give them a strength-boosting item or a steady diet of potions.

    Uh-huh, mage spells are more powerful than priest spells at the same level, in most cases. This isn't news. There's a reason priests get better THAC0, more HP, armor, shields, helmets, a wider weapon selection, faster leveling most of the game ... it's all some measure of compensation for the power of those spells. And unless you're doing something deliberately weird and unbalanced, mages and priests aren't really competing for the same party slots. You'll have some of each, because they fill different roles.

    TrouveurJuliusBorisovGrond0StummvonBordwehr
  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 120
    edited March 9
    konva wrote: »

    As druid spell tiers... tier 2 is really suck. Only notable is slow poison and charm... nothing else is usefull. (In IWD he at least get allicorn lance). Totemic druid trades his shapeshifting skills to get decent summon, while keeping his spellcasting abilites.
    Yes, in unmodded BG druid spells selection sucks for the first three levels. Druid spells are much better in IWD with Sunscorch, Alicorn Lance, Spike Growth...

    That's why an avenger is a really good choice in BG1 : he gains Chromatic Orb (and a druid can hit level 10, so can petrify with this spell in BG1 !) , Web (best crowdcontrol spell in BG1) and Lightning Bolt to use when indoor instead of Call Lightning when outdoor.

    Shapeshifted in a Sword Spider, he have 4 APR, making him a decent fighter.

    And a druid can have 21 Wisdom in BG1, meaning more spells by day than a sorcerer or even Edwin.

    JuliusBorisovGrond0StummvonBordwehr
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