BGEE class opinions
konva
Member Posts: 64
Hello all, first of all, I play mobile version without mods / "official" addons.
Warriors
Its just me or game hates warriors and other weapons than swords? Other than varscona, there are no good weapons in game until fair late game. Maybe bassilus hammer is worthy too, but thats all. Except that, they have very easy start, with decent str roll.
Druids
Meh choice, poor combat, worse spells. They are good at lvl 9+. Only considerable druid is totemic.
I wont list other classes, I prefer to play mages on PC modded version, but honestly, warriors needs to be boosted by better availability of other weapons. Not sure about brage sword, didnt tried it. But what about dagger warrior?
Im thinking about creating some balance mod.
Now summons come to my mind. In BGEE, they might be fine, until very late, or SoD. This should be modified like I copy creature, make allegiance ally, change to summoned gender and edid 2da file? Im also open for discussions and tips. Currently I play human warrior on mobile, with flais specialisation.
Warriors
Its just me or game hates warriors and other weapons than swords? Other than varscona, there are no good weapons in game until fair late game. Maybe bassilus hammer is worthy too, but thats all. Except that, they have very easy start, with decent str roll.
Druids
Meh choice, poor combat, worse spells. They are good at lvl 9+. Only considerable druid is totemic.
I wont list other classes, I prefer to play mages on PC modded version, but honestly, warriors needs to be boosted by better availability of other weapons. Not sure about brage sword, didnt tried it. But what about dagger warrior?
Im thinking about creating some balance mod.
Now summons come to my mind. In BGEE, they might be fine, until very late, or SoD. This should be modified like I copy creature, make allegiance ally, change to summoned gender and edid 2da file? Im also open for discussions and tips. Currently I play human warrior on mobile, with flais specialisation.
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Comments
If you want more powerful druid spells at low level, you might want to look at the avenger kit. That also increases the range of shapeshifting you can do.
Warriors and classes alike are considered to be one of the best picks in BG1 for the following reasons :
- They have superior hit points which matter tremendously at first.
- They can wear heavy armor quickly, when you need it the most.
- They have enough proficiency points to wield a bow and a melee weapon effectively from the ground up.
They don't need tricks or fancy magical weapons to get the job done, that's their strength. If you find them weak, perhaps you're not playing them properly?
If you have several warriors in your party use one of them as a tank, the others as ranged damage dealers. They'll interrupt spellcasters and overwhelm charging foes with bolts and arrows. It makes for an excellent barrage which will allow you to breeze through most of the game. That's potent enough!
By no means are they hated. Actually, they're the most beginner-friendly class and most people would dual from them because they start off great.
In my opinion, they don't need to be buffed because it would break a commendable logic our beloved game series is trying to follow : magic and especially arcane power is the strongest asset one can have BUT it takes time to develop. First, you'll have to suffer from low hit points, low armor class, vulnerability to critical hits and so on. You will need a babysitter to grow : usually the warrior. The reward for this, however, is ridiculously powerful spells in Baldur's Gate 2.
Warriors are the opposite. They rock Baldur's Gate 1 but get a bit redundant eventually. Other casters like clerics or druids sort of fill the middle ground : they can wear heavy armors, shields and so on. They won't be as crippled in BG1 as mages but their spells will never reach the madness of arcane magic, despite being strong on their own.
I'm perfectly fine with all this. If you ask me, balance issues have more to do with the dual and multiclass system than any of individual class per se. Sure, some kits or classes seem to pale in comparison to others but it offers roleplay options and it brings people together to defend their class to the best of their ability. Most of the time, you can make a case for your playstyle. That's great!
On the other hand, multiclasses tend to take the aforementioned logic and throw it into the dumpster. You can argue from a powergaming perspective that the beginning of the game is what matters the most because you first need to survive to get strong (excellent argument for warriors) or you could fight back claiming it's all about the potential and that it's worth the risk considering the return on investment (a good point for mages) but there's little to no debate that a fighter/mage is stronger than a single class fighter or a mage.
Because you don't feel useless at first and still get crazy powerful in the end, it feels unbalanced to me. Rarely will you see someone making a strong case for a single class being more powerful than a multiclass. That's sad.
To me, it feels like the solo classes aim for roleplay and multiclasses allow powergaming. The game is trying to please those two types of players and that's fine. That said, if we're talking about fixing unbalanced classes, I'd start there.
Anyways..
About weapons, there's the hammer you mentioned but you can also get a really powerful dagger somewhat early if you know what you're doing. If I remember correctly, you also have a decent axe and a mace available in the first major city you should go to.
Overall, there's no need to be overly enthusiastic about magical weapons in Baldur's Gate 1. They're not as powerful or useful as their BG2 counterparts. You don't need to rush to get them asap, just play the game normally and you'll do fine. More importantly, if you want to focus on something then focus on bows : they're easy to get and their sheer power is devastating in BG1.
What else ? Oh yes, druids... Well, I'm not going into details but they can be played right. Unlike warriors, you'll need some time to get the hang of them.
But as stated already, warriors in BG1 really get strongest with bows. For example, in my latest run - which was built with a mage protagonist and specifically themed around killing enemies with fire spells - the party slot with the highest experience from kills was the archer spot held by Kivan in chapters 1-3 and then Coran in chapters 4-7. That's without the massive damage from elemental arrows, since I used a mod that reduced their power. I gave the mage all the advantages, and the archer still beat him out.
And a warrior with daggers? It's a surprisingly solid choice. Throwing daggers get two attacks per round base, and deal strength bonus damage. Daggers aren't the best for raw physical damage, but they're very good at delivering powerful on-hit effects. The Dagger of Venom in BG1 hits enemies with heavy poison, and Pixie Prick in BG2 forces enemies to save or fall unconscious on every hit. When you need the damage ... well, that's what strength bonuses are for. Even if you don't have a lot of strength naturally, there are potions for that. And only warriors can use the stronger strength potions.
As for druids ... they level fast in BG1, and level 7 at 35K XP brings a lot of power. Call Woodland Beings is an incredibly powerful spell, and that's when your shapeshifting options come online. Unless you went Shapeshifter, in which case werewolf form is an absolute beast right from level 1. Who needs spells when you hit harder than all but the strongest warriors?
Multiclass is truly powergaming, but fighter/mage/cleric? Strong indeed, but you cant level decently, you are limited to cleric proficiences, and ofc no armor.
Never tried shapeshifter, but for example, classic druid? Really not good choice for BGEE. Woodland being might be nice, but the only spell. Avenger or totemic druid looks slightly better.
About weapons, not all categories have their top weapons. Varscona is good, short sword of backstabbing is aweome. But flails are only +2 max. Not sure about crossbows, but definitely I try to respec to bow probably. Or I might start over and try something new as warrior. If you pick wrong proficiency, you just cant kill flesh golems, jellies and other monsters which requirec magic weapons.
What about mages and their summoning spells? Or animal summoning spells?
Are you? Warriors get more weapon proficiency points than any other class. They start off with four pips and keep getting more at a faster rate than others. With this, you can either reach grand mastery asap to get more damage/an extra APR or diversify. Since most benefits come when you become specialized, it's totally viable to allocate two points in any weapon you want without intensive planning. The margin of error is indeed permissive. That is why warriors are recommended to new players, they specialize at level 1 in one melee weapon, one ranged weapon and they're fine whatever they choose next.
Also, let's not forget warriors are one of the best to dual from and that brings lots of different playstyles. It's also convenient if you grow tired of the fighter class but don't want to start all over again.
So in conclusion, whether you're well-versed in the game mechanics or just doing you first playthrough warriors are extremely versatile and useful in BG1. You're not "forced" to do anything.
There are smart solutions to those problems and if you're a warrior you can still use a weapon you're not really gifted with because your base THACO is good enough. Think out of the box or suffer a THACO penalty, either way it's doable!
Monster summoning 1-3.. those are weak relatively, not bad in bgee.. bad in bg2ee. Animal summons sre slightly better.
It is only +x thac0 and damage, that should not be limiting you from dealing damage except for maybe the thac0 poor classes.
Well, thats a good point, didnt looked that way, cuz Im mage
It'd pretty boring if you could find all the best weapons in the first major city you go to. As far as I'm concerned, I want them scattered. Some weapons will be harder to get than others and that's fine, it makes for a more interesting game. Now knowing what you could find on your travels is bread and butter for roleplaying. Once you beat the game and start again, it's also fun to reroute to get whatever weapon asap. Standardize the access of weapons and you lose all that.
Again, you really don't need to rush +1 weapons. You can easily go around them.
Whats your opinion about summons in bgee/sod/soa+tob?
The basis is that summons are mostly used to distract your enemies and soak up damage. Rarely will they pose a serious threat. It's usually best to send them forth while you buff up or attack from a distance.
You should summon the monsters that counter whoever's attacking you. For instance, skeleton (warriors) are very useful against casters and archers due to their innate resistances. On the other hand, you might want to skip them if your opponents wield crushing weapons because they'll get blown to pieces fast.
So learn the characteristics of your summoned friends and use them wisely.
well, I played on ToB summoner, honestly all summons except demons or angels sucks.. Fire giants smash them all really fast for example. MS3 is decent in BG 1 part, during SoD it gets little worse and in BG2 content it varies on chapter progress... wywern, carrion crawlers should be slightly better summons. Elemental summons are good, only from druid. Mages have certain rick about loosing mental combat. Planetar summon is very good. Able to kill even dragons if lucky.
One key is that warriors are better if you're not rest-spamming. On limited reload, one of the most dangerous things you can do in the early levels is rest outdoors. You can be attacked from any direction, sometimes by ranged, leaving your squishy characters vulnerable. Having a good representation of warriors in the party, coupled with buying and using health potions, allows you to make long sojourns in BG1 without having to rest constantly outside, and thus expose your party. I actually think BG1 has a strong bias towards a high inclusion of warrior-types in comparison to SoA or ToB.
+2 dagger (Nashkel mine exit from Half-Orc cleric dude - i think it's east from outside Nashkel mines)
Dagger of Venom (Beregost)
+2 shortsword (south of High Hedge)
Stupifier mace (Beregost)
Varscona sword
Ashideena warhammer (from Bassilus)
+1 halberd (near Gnoll Stronghold)
+1 staff, spear (I think?), bastard sword, long sword, battle axe (Beregost)
+1 flail (west from Nashkel)
+1 morningstar (Gullykin, Nashkel mine exit map)
Moonblade (Xan)
+2 scimitar (Cloakwood 2, fairly early unless you do all the wilderness maps)
+1 2h sword (north of Nashkel carnival? I think)
+2 club (Cloakwood 3)
Druid is ok at early level - the kits are all very powerful in BG1, Shapeshifter is too good once you get the Shield Amulet from Nashkel carnival. At level 1 you have Shillelagh abd level 3 you get Flame Blade weapon spells. Put an offhand weapon like Dagger of Venom and you get 2 attacks with good THAC0.
All is true, Also in beregost is composite bow+1, but cant remember good heavy crossbows.
Good warriors in bgee are those you make yourself, maybe dorn is considerable. Khalid is meh..
As mage, fairy long you can just spam sleep even on ogres and win with ranged party. On harder groups web is solution. In final chapters your mage has decent spells, cleric has good control spells like hold person. Druid is not bad when you pick totemic(extra early summon), but imagine jaheira is pure druid. Pure unkitted druid is horrible choice.
I'd rank him as the second-best NPC archer in the campaign, behind only Coran's outright illegal build.
Jaheira isn't a pure druid. She's a fighter/druid, which is a whole different beast. No restrictions on armor and shields, the ability to specialize in weapons, and the only weapon restriction that really hurts is the inability to use bows. Limited spellcasting, but you still get to druid level 8 for as many spell slots as a full cleric in the long run.
The pure druid NPC choice is Faldorn (available in the Cloakwood), and the exclusive perk full druids get (regardless of kit) is the ability to cast 5th level divine spells in the BGEE campaign. Imagine opening a battle with True Seeing and Insect Plague ... you can do that with her, or any other full druid, at the XP cap. They're the best healers you can get in BGEE, because they have both more levels than clerics and an extra high-quality healing spell in Call Woodland Beings. They don't get Raise Dead, but clerics don't either. They don't get Restoration, but nothing drains levels. So - no flaws, just the best at healing.
If you're willing to tinker with NPC kits, Faldorn also fits really well as an Avenger.
Off-hand weapons ... I really wouldn't recommend that on any character that doesn't have two-weapon specialization. Melee THAC0 is very much a limiting factor, and it's not going to be "good" with -2/-6 penalties or worse. And the shapeshift weapons outright forbid off-hand weapons in the current game versions. If you want to hit things in melee as a shapeshifter, you turn into a werewolf and just use the paws. Trust me, they're plenty good enough.
While the druid kits all have their good points, they also all have real drawbacks in BG1. Shapeshifters and Avengers can't wear ankheg plate. Totemic druids can't turn into bears and maul their opponents (3 APR, 18/00 strength so the damage is good). It's a real tradeoff, and the vanilla druid is a perfectly reasonable middle ground.
The two notable (better than a basic +1) crossbows in the game:
- Light crossbow of speed +1, available for purchase in Beregost. +1 attack, +1 damage, +1 APR.
- Heavy crossbow of accuracy +2, available from an enemy in Baldur's Gate if you kill Aldeth Sashenstar. +5 attack, +2 damage.
Light and heavy crossbows use the same proficiency; the only difference is that non-fighter thieves can't use the heavy kind.
Because APR is king, the light crossbow of speed is the best. Anyone that can use a crossbow can use it. It gets as many attacks as a bow, but the ammo selection is worse. No dispelling or detonation, no bonus to hit on the elemental ammo, and hardly any monsters carry crossbows and ammo for you to pick up when you kill them. Then you get less of a bonus to hit and to damage ... I'd take three archers before I went looking for one crossbowman in BGEE.
As druid spell tiers... tier 2 is really suck. Only notable is slow poison and charm... nothing else is usefull. (In IWD he at least get allicorn lance). Totemic druid trades his shapeshifting skills to get decent summon, while keeping his spellcasting abilites.
Clerics has silence, hold person, draw upon holy might... on second tier. Pretty awesome, much more help for humanoid enemies.
Still I prefer play mages, tier 1 - sleep is OP, shield, familiar. Sleep carries up to bandit camp I suppose. At level 2 he has web, or decent combat spells like mirror image, melf arrow. At level 3 spells he got same hold person, but here I prefer some fireballs / arrows, or some meat shields. Since in BGEE he can reach up to level 5, hes pretty strong summoner, MS3 is not bad in BGEE, also some usefull spells like greater malison, emotions.. while some spells in BGEE arent much useful until SoD part. Yes, mage truly shines in BG2 part. But there also his summons get much weaker except planetar.
Druid level 2 spells ... all right, yes, they're weak. But I'd definitely put both Barkskin and Resist Fire and Cold on the "useful" list. My current party, at over 2 million XP, still makes heavy use of Resist Fire and Cold from their two druids. And even from the cleric as well, despite all the other things he can spend level 2 spell slots on.
Incidentally, there are a few mods out there that add IWD spells to the Baldur's Gate series. These are of particular note for druids, because of that dearth of good spells at low levels.
The trick with temporary stat boosts to equip items is that the usage requirements are only checked when you first equip them, then re-checked when you level up - any items you don't meet the requirements for are dropped at this point. If you don't like it? Fine, then don't use it. It's not like being unable to use composite longbows is a problem for an archer, unless you have a second longbow archer in the party that also doesn't have 18 strength. And even that stops being a problem when you can afford to give them a strength-boosting item or a steady diet of potions.
Uh-huh, mage spells are more powerful than priest spells at the same level, in most cases. This isn't news. There's a reason priests get better THAC0, more HP, armor, shields, helmets, a wider weapon selection, faster leveling most of the game ... it's all some measure of compensation for the power of those spells. And unless you're doing something deliberately weird and unbalanced, mages and priests aren't really competing for the same party slots. You'll have some of each, because they fill different roles.
That's why an avenger is a really good choice in BG1 : he gains Chromatic Orb (and a druid can hit level 10, so can petrify with this spell in BG1 !) , Web (best crowdcontrol spell in BG1) and Lightning Bolt to use when indoor instead of Call Lightning when outdoor.
Shapeshifted in a Sword Spider, he have 4 APR, making him a decent fighter.
And a druid can have 21 Wisdom in BG1, meaning more spells by day than a sorcerer or even Edwin.