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Too many long swords to choose from!

TaylanTaylan Member Posts: 74
Mainly just a little rant, but maybe you have suggestions on which long swords you consider superior in SoA until you get to the really supreme ones in ToB.

So let's see, we have all of these available in various places already accessible during chapter 2:
  • Long Sword +2: Generic enchanted sword you can buy at the Adventurer's Mart. The only sword in this list that's made redundant by others in this list through the fact that they're obtainable equally easily.
  • Namarra +2: Actually deals +4 damage which is nice, and the ability to cast Silence three times a day comes out to be absolutely amazing against Beholders. Can be grabbed right away from the graveyard.
  • The Burning Earth +1: Deals +1 fire and +2 against regenerating, so great against trolls, and a whopping +4 against undead! You can actually get this in chapter 1 with an imported character, otherwise chapter 2 at the Druid Grove.
  • Dragonslayer, Peridan +2: Immunity to fear, detect invisibility once per day, heal 1 HP per minute, double damage to dragons. Obtained from Firkraag's dungeon which is available in chapter 2.
  • The Dancing Blade, Ras +2: Can "attack on its own" (spawn a floating sword as an allied creature, like the spell) for 4 rounds. Pretty dope I guess, haven't bought it personally. You can get it from Trademeet after solving the Genie problem.
  • Adjatha the Drinker +2: Immunity to Charm and Domination, heal 1 HP per hit. Dope. Obtained from the Planar Prison which could be seen as late chapter 2 content. (Edit: ok that's a stretch, I forgot that without the SCS change to Gaelan's fee, you can enter chapter 3 much earlier, and some might even leave this for after Spellhold. Still, technically available in chapter 2.)
  • Daystar +2: Whopping +4 vs. all evil AND double damage against undead! Can obliterate undead with Sunray! Equip this in your main hand and The Burning Earth in off-hand to become a shredder of the undead. :D Obtainable in chapter 2 if you can beat a Lich.
  • Blade of Roses +3: Just a generic +3 long sword for combat purposes. Only perk is +2 CHA, though actually that's not bad either as it can boost your CHA from 18 to 20 when combined with the Ring of Human Influence, which means your purchase discounts improve by a whopping 10% (from 15% to 25%). Can be bought at the Copper Coronet after freeing the slaves.

All 8 of these long swords can be obtained throughout chapter 2. And what really annoys me is, ALL but the first in the list have one or another great use for which I'd like to keep it around!

This means that by the time I enter chapter 3, I could be double-wielding long swords and carrying around 5 more in my inventory for various purposes. OK, I'll probably skip out on Ras, so make that 4, but that's still one quarter of a character's inventory.

Anyone made a BG2 run yet with three elven fighters each dual-wielding long swords? :D Could even go with 4 and still equip them all with a +2 before leaving for Spellhold. (There's another +2 in the Vampire Lair you clear out in the chapter 3 finale.)

Comments

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,319
    Taylan wrote: »
    Obtained from the Planar Prison which could be seen as late chapter 2 content. (Edit: ok that's a stretch, I forgot that without the SCS change to Gaelan's fee, you can enter chapter 3 much earlier, and some might even leave this for after Spellhold. Still, technically available in chapter 2.)

    Depends on your party. That's Haer'Dalis' loyalty mission, and also the bard stronghold. If you're a bard or you're bringing the tiefling, you're doing the quest early. With my no-spellcasting party, it was actually the very first stronghold quest I did.

    Oh, and Haer'Dalis is another one to dual-wield long swords. Give him proficiency in long swords, and his script will upgrade it to specialization.

    JuliusBorisovPokotaAerakar
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,839
    if i use longswords i will start off with the one you get in the first dungeon ( whether it be burning earth or that +2 sword that deals +1 cold damage ) and keep using that until i get the blade of roses which is SO damn cheap in retrospect ( like come on, with 18 CHA its like 5900 gold, thats peanuts for what that weapon does ) because usually i do the hendak quest first anyway so its already there

    if i were dual wielding i would have blade of roses in off hand, and probably have Adjatha the Drinker in the main hand because that HP healing ability is damn good, and then i would keep daystar around for the few demilich/lich battles for SoA and then when i would battle with enemies that require +3 or better weapons i would just switch blade of roses and adjatha around for that battle

  • ReticentReticent Member Posts: 122
    Burning Earth is probably the most useful one early, but Daystar is a keeper long term.

    The sword form of the Rod of Lordly Might can also be quite strong if you can get it early. Numerically it doesn't appear impressive, but Hold is such a powerful effect that it's basically a death sentence against foes who fail saves.

  • ShirakShirak Member Posts: 64
    As mentioned by others, basically all you need is the Burning Earth and Daystar, most of the time.

    Dragonslayer is good to keep for the other dragons in the game. There are other ways to easily get charm and domination immunity, and the 1hp per hit heal is way too low for you to use the Drinker over Daystar.

    You think you have a long sword choice issue? Lol, wait till you use other mods like Item Upgrade and the SOD to BG2EE Item Upgrade and you add the Tongue of Acid from SOD into the equation - then you'll REALLY have an issue of which long sword to use lol.

    By the way, if you use any mods that add IWD items, in particular, the Long Sword of Action, things get even more interesting.......

  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    When I'm playing a Board and Sword character I go straight for the Blade of Roses because the +3 helps with getting the Katana Celestial Fury, which I then use throughout SoA whilst putting points in Long Swords for ToB.

  • JGPJGP Member Posts: 26
    The two best longswords, esp. for bladesinger type fighter/mages or fighter/thieves with only two weapon slots to work with, are Burning Earth and Blade of Roses. A couple of points:

    1. Not to rain on the Daystar parade, but it's big weakness as a primary weapon is that it only hits as a +4 versus EVIL opponents and +2 versus everyone else - big boy golems will eat your lunch while you listen to your favorite voice set remind you of your idiocy several times a round. ;)

    2. With Blade of Roses to cover the +3 or better opponents, you want to have the Burning Earth for the lich, undead and troll killing duties, as well as the underrated +1 fire to interrupt spell casting through a stoneskin.

    If dual wielding, either Peridan or Adjatha are fine in the off-hand for the immunities, though I prefer the Arbane short sword, as hold comes up much more often than charm or fear. A moot point after you make the switch to to an extra APR offhand weapon anyway.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,032
    edited February 10
    Reticent wrote: »
    The sword form of the Rod of Lordly Might can also be quite strong if you can get it early. Numerically it doesn't appear impressive, but Hold is such a powerful effect that it's basically a death sentence against foes who fail saves.

    The effect is powerful, but with a save vs spell at +5 it won't trigger often against tougher enemies by default (though an archer's called shot and malison can radically change the odds). If you want something to disable enemies, then Pixie Prick is hard to beat - the sleep effect uses an unmodified save vs death and fewer things have immunity to that. There's nothing quite like seeing a powerful demon start snoring in the middle of a fight :D.

    ReticentithildurnewAerakar
  • ReticentReticent Member Posts: 122
    edited February 10
    Grond0 wrote: »
    If you want something to disable enemies, then Pixie Prick is hard to beat - the sleep effect uses an unmodified save vs death and fewer things have immunity to that. There's nothing quite like seeing a powerful demon start snoring in the middle of a fight :D.

    Yeah, Pixie's Prick is much better, and +3 if I recall, but it falls into the wrong proficiency for the topic.

    I agree though that you do eventually have to give up on Rod of Lordly Might, but even with the save bonus you can get a lot of fails through a run on shear volume of rolls forced. Best if you can get it early, Item Randomizer for example.

    Grond0
  • TaylanTaylan Member Posts: 74
    JGP wrote: »
    1. Not to rain on the Daystar parade, but it's big weakness as a primary weapon is that it only hits as a +4 versus EVIL opponents and +2 versus everyone else - big boy golems will eat your lunch while you listen to your favorite voice set remind you of your idiocy several times a round. ;)

    Well for golems I just switch to the Kneecapper. Even with zero proficiency points, the +5 THAC0 and damage coupled with the fact that it does crushing damage (golems having 50% resistance to slashing) makes it the superior choice I think. I put the Flail of Ages in my off-hand for the small chance that I'll be able to slow them and because it also does crushing.
    A moot point after you make the switch to to an extra APR offhand weapon anyway.

    Hmm, I think I've been neglecting this point. For a while I had Belm +2 literally just sitting around in Jaheira's inventory!

    At some point I put it in Valygar's off-hand but still don't use it on my main char. Valygar's main hand is equally dangerous anyway, since I have him equip the 19 STR belt. But then again, often I have my F/M main char go 1-on-1 against the most dangerous foes. I guess I could have used Belm in the off-hand in some of those encounters, like when taking the Kneecapper in my main hand against golems.

    Let me get this straight, because I've read bits and pieces about this but usually didn't ponder much on it:

    * The +1 APR will always be useful for my F/M because with 2 proficiency points I won't ever reach natural 5 APR in most cases, correct?

    * The off-hand can only ever do 1 APR, so how powerful it is really doesn't matter that much. If you use your off-hand for nothing else than a +1 APR on the main hand, you've already gained *more* from it, because your main-hand is more powerful. And the weak 1 APR off-hand is just an added bonus on top. Correct?

    If that's true, it means I've definitely neglected this for far too long. Is there any conceivable reason to keep dual-wielding long swords on an elven F/M? The racial THAC0 bonus applies to short swords as well, so I guess Kundane in the off-hand would be the go-to choice? Does that continue to be true in the late game / end game?

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,319
    That analysis is true if you're looking at a weapon which only has value in its attacks. Like the Answerer - it weakens enemies when it hits them, but it doesn't do anything if you're just holding it.

    But if your weapons have passive bonuses, then things change. If putting in a +1 APR means taking out an off-hand weapon that's boosting your character for just holding it, that's not a clear gain. And a number of the longswords throughout the game do have good passive bonuses. Such as the endgame-worthy options of Blackrazor and Angurvadal.

    Of course, if you're running a class like an elven F/M ... you can't keep stacking proficiency in one weapon, so you're going to have more weapons that you're specialized in, and thus more options. Diversifying from long swords is almost inevitable.

  • JGPJGP Member Posts: 26
    Taylan wrote: »
    Well for golems I just switch to the Kneecapper.
    Sure. I was more or less addressing the OP's general question on the utilitarian comparisons between longswords. Also I consider it mildly cheesy to go to inventory to switch weapons in a fight. Wish Beamdog would have implemented the same lock out for weapons as they do for armor. Just me though.
    Taylan wrote: »
    Let me get this straight, because I've read bits and pieces about this but usually didn't ponder much on it:

    * The +1 APR will always be useful for my F/M because with 2 proficiency points I won't ever reach natural 5 APR in most cases, correct?

    * The off-hand can only ever do 1 APR, so how powerful it is really doesn't matter that much. If you use your off-hand for nothing else than a +1 APR on the main hand, you've already gained *more* from it, because your main-hand is more powerful. And the weak 1 APR off-hand is just an added bonus on top. Correct?

    If that's true, it means I've definitely neglected this for far too long. Is there any conceivable reason to keep dual-wielding long swords on an elven F/M? The racial THAC0 bonus applies to short swords as well, so I guess Kundane in the off-hand would be the go-to choice? Does that continue to be true in the late game / end game?
    Yep, all true. No reason to use offhand longsword other than a 'concept' build. My frontline Elf F/M uses the longswords I mentioned with Kundane or Arbane for protection from undead types with hold attacks, Ghasts etc. Later in ToB, it's the upgraded Foebane with Kundane all the way to the end.

    With an Elf F/T, it's a bit different. The +1 elf bonus with the short sword does not outweigh the advantage that Scimitars will give you once you get UAI and are able to use the Scarlet Ninja-To which is +3 as well as the extra APR and a pretty good attack in it's own right. Belm until then.

  • JGPJGP Member Posts: 26
    jmerry wrote: »

    But if your weapons have passive bonuses, then things change. If putting in a +1 APR means taking out an off-hand weapon that's boosting your character for just holding it, that's not a clear gain. And a number of the longswords throughout the game do have good passive bonuses. Such as the endgame-worthy options of Blackrazor and Angurvadal.

    Though I generally think jmerry's posts are well thought out and insightful, I'm not sure I buy this. Maybe a case for Blackrazor, I dunno. I'm one of those never play evil kinda guys, but the big plus is still an on-hit property that's a percentage chance on only one attack a round. Angurvadal is a nice weapon for a primary on a grandmastered longsword fighter, (my current run happens to be a berserker who uses it) but really only qualifies for good passive bonuses after the upgrade, which happens so late as to make it a basically an end of game weapon and even then only raises str from 21 to 22 (if you've given him the usual boosts). Level drain protection not really important anymore. I'll take one more swing with Foebane any day.

  • ithildurnewithildurnew Member Posts: 245
    edited February 11
    Holy cow, quite a bit of misinformation in this thread. Where to begin...

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,319
    JGP wrote: »
    Though I generally think jmerry's posts are well thought out and insightful, I'm not sure I buy this. Maybe a case for Blackrazor, I dunno. I'm one of those never play evil kinda guys, but the big plus is still an on-hit property that's a percentage chance on only one attack a round. Angurvadal is a nice weapon for a primary on a grandmastered longsword fighter, (my current run happens to be a berserker who uses it) but really only qualifies for good passive bonuses after the upgrade, which happens so late as to make it a basically an end of game weapon and even then only raises str from 21 to 22 (if you've given him the usual boosts). Level drain protection not really important anymore. I'll take one more swing with Foebane any day.

    I agree that Angurvadal only really qualifies for passive bonuses after the upgrade ... which, in my last run, was after everything but the final battles. So instead, my Blackrazor-wielding Keldorn used Purifier in his off hand. (Why yes, I use dirty tricks like killing the genie after you give him the sword.)
    I had five warriors in that run. All five had weapons in their off hands by the end. And the only one that put a +APR weapon there in the late game was the fighter/thief protagonist. I used more in the midgame - but by the end, everybody else had enough weapons mastered that they could put something with good passives in the other hand. Consider Korgan's final loadout of Crom Faeyr and the Axe of the Unyielding, for example; there's no way that replacing either of those with a +APR weapon would improve things.

    Adam_en_tiumAerakar
  • TaylanTaylan Member Posts: 74
    Holy cow, quite a bit of misinformation in this thread. Where to begin...

    Eagerly awaiting your wisdom... :D

    Adam_en_tiumTimbo0o0o0inethAluka77
  • Timbo0o0o0Timbo0o0o0 Member Posts: 59
    Hi @ithildurnew , care to explain to the unillumined?

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