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"Maybe this time" [NO-RELOAD THREAD]: "The Tale of TEN THOUSAND Trials"

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  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,829
    Klorox wrote: »
    One of my biggest fears is the fact that nobody can use a wand or scroll until I get to Baldur’s Gate and get the Tome to increase INT by 1 (then the sorcerer will have a 9).

    That means no abusing Mutamin’s garden for easy XP early.
    Int-boosting potions are a thing. Is a potion of genius worth it for that boost? Considering that you don't have to spend potions on learning spells, you certainly have the option.
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
    jmerry wrote: »
    Klorox wrote: »
    One of my biggest fears is the fact that nobody can use a wand or scroll until I get to Baldur’s Gate and get the Tome to increase INT by 1 (then the sorcerer will have a 9).

    That means no abusing Mutamin’s garden for easy XP early.
    Int-boosting potions are a thing. Is a potion of genius worth it for that boost? Considering that you don't have to spend potions on learning spells, you certainly have the option.

    Very true. Where can you buy those early? I know I can get the ones that boost INT and DEX at the Friendly Arm Inn.
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
    BTW, I’ve never chosen Sleep on a sorcerer before. LOL.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,829
    Gellana has both sorts of Int-boosting potions - four of each. She's the only store outside the big city that stocks them, though you might also find a few as random drops.
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member, Moderator Posts: 937
    Gardi, Ranger/Cleric - Update 26

    Ascension part I

    No matter how well I do in a run, Ascension never goes the way I planned it. Since I'm playing on tactical rules, I get to renew my spellslots at 2 of the essence pools, so there's no reason not to go all out against Jon, Bodhi, Imoen and the one fallen solar I have to face on this difficulty level. Our buffs this time are extensive, adding storm giant strength/speed/inverulnability plus protection form ice and electricity into the mix. SI:Conjuration to counter Bodhi's bat swarm is a must.
    Things start off well - I notice Jon is lacking spell trap in his opening buffs, so I spellstrike him right away while focusing on the fallen solar with my fighters, summoning in my own planetar and preparing to breach Jon. However, things go wrong when Jon throws a 3*Remove Magic sequencer at Hans. Gardi has entropy shield and Illuminata has SI:A, and my though is that they should be fine (the others are far enough away in any case).

    They are NOT fine. They lose their buffs. So, I was previously under the assumption that entropy shield and SI:A will block all remove magic spells coming at them, unlike a spell shield, which will only block one spell and disappear. Have I been working under a wrong assumption all this time? Does a remove magic destroy the SI:A/entropy shield, and the other 2 get through? If not, how did Illuminata and Gardi get dispelled?
    zevfq5t0r7fu.png
    Damage control is priority Nr. 1 - I actually don't notice that Illuminata's buffs are gone at this point, because she still has SI (propably Conjuration) and Spell Shield active. Gardi only has ISOM. Hans and Gardi get away from the fallen solar and his potentially run-ending vorpal hits. Instead of panicking, I should've looked up the save penalty for his vorpal hit - turns out they were fine either way with their innate and item-based saving throws. As a temporary safety measure, they both drank potions of magic shielding that I had saved for such an occasion.
    The fallen solar, low on hitpoints, teleports away to the northwest. To keep Gardi safe, our protagonist goes after Bodhi with her runehammer instead as we start the breach on Jon and prepare Illuminata, Balthazar and Hans to go after the solar:
    li56qc95qb1h.png
    Meanwhile, Pietro has finished his storm of vengeance, which didn't turn out to be useful this time around. He gets hit by Bodhi, being the only one in the party who is not immune to level drain because I failed to win the spectral brand (Hans currently isn't, but he is far away and can enrage at any time) - luckily, I notice that he gets hit (5 levels drained in one hit) and throw him the amulet of power. I now notice that Illuminata is taking damage from the flaming cloud and that her buffs must be gone, so she moves towards safety. Andi and Hans (who has used an oil of speed to keep up) were able to catch up to the solar and defeat the fallen celestial while Balthazar is taking down the breached Irenicus by himself - I'm very glad I allied with him at this point, with my primary fighters dispelled and very weak:
    1n7u5s8r4545.png
    Pietro is unable to finish his implosion, Gardi has also taken a lot of damage from Bodhi - as Balthazar kills Jon with Andi's help, I have him and my planetar deal with the vampire, and Andi helps out with some aggressive spells:
    7qv4bcq4setd.png
    Balthazar gets this kill as well - we are safe for now:
    ufsv99sam7ub.png
    We have a dozen restoration scrolls for such cases and can cure fatigue via unending endurance:
    67nqoggcvyvp.png
    Time for some attempt at wishresting - 5 wishes, no rest option (this would have been incredibly punishing on insane), but in the meantime, we heal up, renew buffs for the three who have lost them (I still have enough spells left to do so), get improved haste on everyone via wish (also 25 all attributes, but that doesn't last long), protect our buffs again and start clearing out the pools. Since we're now immune to fire again and have CC+DW going, there's not much trouble here - and hey, a vorpal hit on a full hp balor is nice:
    y64biv7qarm4.png
    The second pool is no trouble, we know that we will get two pool-rests, so we can go all out. Our final demonic opponent (with our second-to-last breach spell), a marilith, dies in the north:
    sn4y762g6lbu.png

    Well... I decided to take a break here, so I'll feel fresh and prepared to re-buff for the final battle without getting impatient. I have already placed the time traps I will use to get some early damage in with Illuminata and Balthazar, if I remember to put him in lunar stance. We'll see how it goes.
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 759
    edited March 2023
    If not, how did Illuminata and Gardi get dispelled?

    The fallen solars dispel on hit. In the screenshot Gardi is under attack by a fallen solar. Could Illuminata have been hit earlier, possibly with an arrow?

    And btw, great work, Enuhal! I'm excited for the finish!
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member, Moderator Posts: 937
    edited March 2023
    Gardi, Ranger/Cleric - Final Update

    Ascension part II

    All right. This is the big show for Illuminata and Balthazar. Because we get our spells back from two essence pools, Illuminata has placed a full 7 time traps on the map. Balthazar has activated lunar stance, which grants him immunity to timestop effects. We buff with everything we can think off. We prepare some special items we have saved for Ascension - the two PfM scrolls and a circlet of mind controlling.

    Not all time traps trigger right away, as I have placed them in the middle at our starting position, so some will only trigger once an enemy gets closer, which can take a very short second. First thing we do in timestop: Illuminata goes on her special mission, putting a PfM scroll on Sendai and on Abazigal to disable their active spellcasting, and using the circlet on Sarevok so he'll fight for us - for now. Balthazar starts bringing The Five + Gromnir to Near Death, making sure not to kill anyone yet:
    fycpualq3ss7.png
    Abazigal and Yaga-Shura are especially tough - while our monk ally deals damage to the dragon, Illuminata activates assassination to whittle down the giant's hitpoint pool:
    6m4wbheqpwrs.png
    Once the timestops are done, everyone but Yaga-Shura is close to death. Despite her PFM scroll, contingencies and sequencers/triggers still work, so Sendai gets to activate some defeneses. Since we are on tactical, we can actually take out one enemy right away and not trigger Mel yet. Sarevok, who is expendable and has to die sooner or later anyway, activates Hardiness in order to tank Yaga-Shura, while Hans and Balthazar kill Illasera, whose dangerous dispelling arrows are now no longer a concern:
    461uxb18b8sa.png
    As Abazigal approaches, he unleashes his breath weapon - and to my surprise, it deals damage to Andi. I'm sure I buffed him with lightning protection - either I actually forgot, or he had SI:A running at this point, blocking the spell. Andi has to run away from Abazigal:
    x9am5rdkurag.png
    Our sorcerer gets away and heals up - I hand him a potion of absorption. Meanwhile, Sendai is still protected, and Yaga-Shura is slowly getting close to death:
    8yj5bl14zmvy.png
    The giant dies as Sendai activates a VERY weird 3*conjure animal spell trigger:
    1r2npukc0i52.png
    This means Mel is now in the fight. Just in time, we are able to refresh our entropy shield and SI:A spells in order to continue protecting our buffs - the timetraps have taken up quite a lot of ingame time.
    amfcppoaawro.png
    Now that Mel is here, I watch her closely in order not to miss a timestop - and immediately, right as she enters combat, I hear the audio and see the animation for the alteration school. I activate focus right away:
    vyeshje1mzkx.png
    Yep, it's a timestop - but both Gardi and Balthazar, still in lunar stance, are active. A huge relief:
    r8z0g7p040fs.png
    Mel goes after Andi, though not with a teleport+GWW, just regular attacks for now. We make sure to buy him time, because his stoneskins won't hold forever. Balthazar takes down Abazigal in order to stun our foe for a while:
    b2m1jqdqjww0.png
    Gardi takes down Gromnir, getting Andi another reprieve. Meanwhile, Balthazar's AI, which I foolishly decided to activate after the initial timetraps had run their course (I don't know most of his abilities, and while I looked some of them up in the readme, I don't feel like I'd be good at using him yet), decides that this is a great time to go into solar stance, so he gets frozen in time:
    xngfal76n7yx.png
    Sendai is finally vulnerable as the timestop ends. Andi hasn't taken a hit, but his stoneskins are gone - this was incredibly close, despite him not taking any actual damage - I definitely needed the takedown on both Abazigal and Gromnir in order to save him - he gets punched back by one of Mel's special abilities and immediately activates PFMW while the others kill Sendai:
    ccr0rtuwjbhb.png
    Sarevok is our only remaining other foe - our alliance (or rather, mind control) is done, we go after him while Andi, back in position, casts improved alacrity. Also, there seems to be a rat in the west?
    qa68m2pvq0a7.png
    Andi unleashes ruby ray, pierce magic, breach and a bunch of new defenses for himself + improved haste for our fighters (which has run out):
    4xze5jt5yysc.png
    We have already dealt some good damage to Mel when she finally acknowledges that she's now mortal and heals back to full:
    71wasnyrj03z.png
    Aside from gating in a marilith, Mel doesn't do a lot. I think the reason for this is that she's actually getting affected by the slow affect from Gardi's Flail of Ages (at least the combat log seems to support this theory), which propably means that she's not getting anything done, as this slow effect is rather powerful. It takes us just three rounds of critical strikes to get her to near death:
    2fyn62aa1gh2.png
    The marilith and Mel only get Hans into yellow hitpoint range. We make sure to keep up Hardiness on both fighters and AoF on Gardi, so Mel won't even be tempted to attack her. There aren't nearly enough rounds for Mel to get another timestop. The battle is done:
    28zad28phqym.png

    Lots of preparation required, but this worked out as well as it could have. While the Irenicus/Bodhi/Imoen battle was messy with the triple remove magic (I will have to check this interaction), the actual Ascension battle never worked out that well for me before. Granted, this is all on tactical, which is much easier, especially when it comes to this final fight. This run has been quite educational for me, and I'll take some important lessons from here for more challenging setups.
    Post edited by Enuhal on
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 759
    Congrats, Enuhal! Great run!
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
    Congrats @Enuhal !!!
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member, Moderator Posts: 937
    edited March 2023
    Thanks :smile:
    Alesia_BH wrote: »
    If not, how did Illuminata and Gardi get dispelled?

    The fallen solars dispel on hit. In the screenshot Gardi is under attack by a fallen solar. Could Illuminata have been hit earlier, possibly with an arrow?

    And btw, great work, Enuhal! I'm excited for the finish!

    Yep, looking back on things, this has to be it - I did some tests, SI:A and Entropy Shield definitely don't just disappear after countering one spell. Despite me rushing the fallen solar, the most likely outcome is that one of these effects, from the wiki, happened:

    "On top of regular damage, a single arrow from the bow of a Fallen Solar either (85% chance):

    Cures Feeblemindedness and Deafness on target
    Destroys the target if it is an illusory creature, like a Project Image clone
    Deals an extra 2d6+4 Magic damage
    Destroys all Spell protections of level 6 and below
    Destroys all Illusionary protections of level 8 and below
    Destroys all Combat protections of level 6 and below
    Dispels all effects at level 22"

    Well, the dispel on hit should work like dispel magic and get blocked by my defenses, but maybe the other effects don't. Though it seems surprising to me that the fallen Solar would've been able to hit twice with his bow (I immediately charged at him in melee range with speeded+hasted characters, and his sword doesn't have the same range of effects), this seems to be the most likely explanation. Starting with PFMW/Divine Protection would propably be required as a counter here, or quickly equipping The Reflex on a character that can do so if I'd notice in time that they get targeted.

    As you can see, I've still not bothered to develop any strategy for Ascension on my own, still copying all your tricks from many years ago :smile: If it works, it works!
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 759
    Well, the dispel on hit should work like dispel magic and get blocked by my defenses, but maybe the other effects don't.

    The dispel on hit effect would only be blocked by SI:A if the on hit effect were flagged Abjuration in the school field. Many on hit effects are unschooled, some by oversight, some by intent. Dispel on hit effects are usually unschooled, I believe by intent.

    Btw, thanks for the full breakdown of on hit effects. I had never seen that list before!
    Starting with PFMW/Divine Protection would propably be required as a counter here, or quickly equipping The Reflex on character that can do so.

    Yuppers! ProMW and The Reflex are my preferred solutions.

    Did the Solar try Mordy D?
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 759

    As you can see, I've still not bothered to develop any strategy for Ascension on my own, still copying all your tricks from many years ago :smile:!

    I wouldn't say that! In fact, I just took some notes off you. I've got a little text file on your battle, lol ;)


  • EnuhalEnuhal Member, Moderator Posts: 937
    edited March 2023
    Alesia_BH wrote: »

    As you can see, I've still not bothered to develop any strategy for Ascension on my own, still copying all your tricks from many years ago :smile:!

    I wouldn't say that! In fact, I just took some notes off you. I've got a little text file on your battle, lol ;)

    Thanks, that's very flattering coming from you :smile:
    Did the Solar try Mordy D?

    Now you've certainly stumped me. I'm not quite sure what Mordy D is in the context of BG2 - I would guess Mordenkainen's Disjunction, which I know from Neverwinter Nights, but that doesn't exist in my installation. Maybe it's added by some mods that I'm not using such as Spell Revisions?
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 759
    edited March 2023
    Now you've certainly stumped me. I'm not quite sure what Mordy D is in the context of BG2 - I would guess Mordenkainen's Disjunction, which I know from Neverwinter Nights

    Yuppers. In some installs the fallen solars cast Mordekain's Disjunction. I'm asking, in part, because I'm still wondering if I need to tack JimFix onto my install. I know EE patched the second generation Spell Shield to cover Wish Breach, as per your report, but I don't know if the Mordy D issue has been addressed.

    (To clarify, the first gen Spell Shield stopped the fallen solar's Mordy D, the second gen one did not. JimFix addressed that, along with the Wish:Breach oversight.)

    If the fallen solars don't cast Mordy D in Ascension 2.0x then it's a moot point.
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member, Moderator Posts: 937
    Mh, I can't remember ever seeing that spell at all. I've never successfully played with Ascension 1.x, only with the 2.0x versions and done about 6 Ascension battles (2 of them on insane), so the sample size is isn't too big here. I can't find anything about this in either readme either. My guess would be that the spell is no longer in use, but I can't guarantee it. Or maybe I didn't look at the combat log thoroughly enough and this is what actually got me dispelled. I will load up a safe, put it on insane, kill Jon and Bodhi and see if the solars ever cast that spell (though maybe we should continue this conversation in the Lounge)
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 759
    edited March 2023
    Agreed. We should discuss the tech stuff in the Lounge.

    In this thread people should be congratulating you, and talking about how awesome Gardi is, lol. Once again, congrats! Cheers to Gardi!

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,317
    Well done @Enuhal - you're ticking those classes off :D.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,317
    Klorox wrote: »
    One of my biggest fears is the fact that nobody can use a wand or scroll until I get to Baldur’s Gate and get the Tome to increase INT by 1 (then the sorcerer will have a 9).

    That means no abusing Mutamin’s garden for easy XP early.

    There are various other options to protect against basilisks, even if you don't want to learn protection from petrification . One possibility would be to use your familiar as a shield, if you were planning on taking one of those early on anyway. You can also wander around the area behind Korax. If you stick Algernon's cloak onto a stealthed character you can also try and charm a basilisk - retreating before it has the chance to retaliate if the charm fails. Stealth shots are also possible and doing that with darts of stunning from behind a handy rock will cut down greatly on the number of attempts needed.
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 998
    edited March 2023
    Corey's Avatar Run - Update 7

    Thanks for Alesia's thieving skills, the Candlekeep Crypts were no problem. Also Prat worked out well as Grond0 was invisible and directed our buffed skeletons to distract them while we then poured in ranged fire.

    Alesia's dispelling arrow insured Slythe's destruction - we left his girlfriend alone. At Duchal Palace, we were hasted and the doppelgangers were slowed so that went well. We fought the undercity party at a distance were weren't taking no chances. We ran into one hiccup - Grond0's protection from undead expired with two skeleton warriors still left. They put a beating on the whole party but we did get them.

    Time for the main event! Corey pulled Sarevok, Corey's dispelling arrow connecting first try. Semaj appeared and lasted a few rounds. While he did went down he dispelled us and critically managed to confuse Alesia and Grim Face with a chaos. Unfortunately before we could take down Sarevok, Grim Face triggered a battle horror and there was nothing that we could do and he went down (though not chunked).

    We have arrived in Jon's dungeon - we will recruit Jaheira and see if she can cast harper's call or if she is not far from level 5 spells. If she's far away, we'll kick her out of the party and just have to resurrect Grim Face once we get out of the dungeon.
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 759
    Nice work, Corey! Congrats on finishing BG1!

    (The rest of us will have some catching up to do, lol.)
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 998
    @Alesia_BH Thanks! Some of the avatar forumites are completionists too, I probably only did 1/2 the content of BG 1. I figured since I don't get to keep my gold or equipment, why not just get the upgrades/equipment I need and get the main quest complete. I did do the big experience fights that weren't too dangerous to complete, like sirines, ankhegs and basilisks, but left alone things like Wolfwere island or depths of Durlag's Tower. There's plenty of experience in BG 2 anyways.
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 998
    Grrr....my game became unresponsive after I removed Jaheira from the party -- going to have to reload and repeat some stuff. I know I can reload due to bugs but still annoying...

    1130zsvltarm.png
  • Serg_BlackStriderSerg_BlackStrider Member Posts: 210
    Wow, what a shiny morning today! Congratulations to both of you, Enuhal and Corey, with job well done!
  • BorcoBorco Member Posts: 325
    Congratulations @Enuhal, amazing work indeed.

    @Corey_Russell Best of luck in SoA/ToB with the avatars.
  • RaygaRayga Member Posts: 50
    Alesia_BH wrote: »
    Now you've certainly stumped me. I'm not quite sure what Mordy D is in the context of BG2 - I would guess Mordenkainen's Disjunction, which I know from Neverwinter Nights

    Yuppers. In some installs the fallen solars cast Mordekain's Disjunction. I'm asking, in part, because I'm still wondering if I need to tack JimFix onto my install. I know EE patched the second generation Spell Shield to cover Wish Breach, as per your report, but I don't know if the Mordy D issue has been addressed.

    (To clarify, the first gen Spell Shield stopped the fallen solar's Mordy D, the second gen one did not. JimFix addressed that, along with the Wish:Breach oversight.)

    If the fallen solars don't cast Mordy D in Ascension 2.0x then it's a moot point.

    Ohhhhh thats what I was looking for!

    So that would explain why all Liches and High Mages stopped using Wish:Breach on me? When i was playing on vanilla it would destroy almost all of my buffs even if I had full Spell Armor on. Most Liches started the fight with that. Nowadays they stopped using it at all against me. I was wondering if that was change of SCS or EE.

    Also thats the first time I hear about Mordy Disjunction in BG. I dont remember it in older Ascension either. What version/mod did that if I may ask?
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member, Moderator Posts: 937
    @Arvia Here's the information for the Hall of Heroes:

    Gardi, the Cleric/Ranger: @Enuhal
    Notable Mods: SCS + Ascension
    Difficulty: Core rules, tactical difficulty
    Start: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1193888/#Comment_1193888
    Finish: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1194795/#Comment_1194795

    Cleric/Ranger can be removed from the list of classes without a no-reload success.

  • EnuhalEnuhal Member, Moderator Posts: 937
    Conratulations @Corey_Russell :smile: I doubt I'll be able to catch up to you, but looking forward to facing these challenges with the same party.

    @Rayga Yep, that's the reason wish breach has gone out of fashion. You basically never see it anymore from opponents - Szass Tam is an exception.
  • ArviaArvia Member Posts: 2,101
    Enuhal wrote: »
    @Arvia Here's the information for the Hall of Heroes:

    Gardi, the Cleric/Ranger: @Enuhal
    Notable Mods: SCS + Ascension
    Difficulty: Core rules, tactical difficulty
    Start: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1193888/#Comment_1193888
    Finish: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1194795/#Comment_1194795

    Cleric/Ranger can be removed from the list of classes without a no-reload success.

    Done, congrats!
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 759
    edited March 2023

    Ohhhhh thats what I was looking for!

    Hey there, hi there, @Rayga ! I'm Alesia. I used to post on the BioWare forums. It's good to meet you. I've enjoyed your posts and our playing styles are similar. I'm sure we'll have a lot to talk about!

    I'd be happy to discuss Spell Shield, Mordy D and such over in the Adventurer's Lounge. Your participation would be welcome, as we may have identified a bug in the fallen solar scripts (Which, incidentally, may explain why you've never seen Mordy D in BG2. It was specific to the Ascension fallen solars.)

    Once again, it's good to meet you!

    Cheers,

    A.

    Post edited by Alesia_BH on
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,853
    edited March 2023
    jmerry wrote: »
    I discovered the problem. You have to go to Sorcerous Sundries first for the amulet/ring quest before he will ask you for a body. Why??? That's new in EE.
    It's not in the base game; if that's true, it's added by a mod.

    Arkion's dialogue tests for a variable "bd_arkion_quest"; it has to be zero for his initial "Go away" or "I've got a dirty deed fer ya" lines. The former doesn't change the variable, the latter sets it to 1. And nothing outside Arkion's dialogue uses it.

    Once I was male, she asked for Arkion's amulet. I gave it to her. I then pickpocketted her for the ring and was successful, not so when I tried to pickpocket the amulet.
    Giving an item to a character (through script actions such as what's used here) sets the "can't steal" flag on it. No matter your skill, you can't pickpocket an item back once you've turned it in. Force was the only option at that point.

    Thanks. That's useful information.

    Journal of Hilde the Holy

    The quests at the Gate were easy enough, though I haven't been to the Iron Throne yet.

    I visited Durlag's and got as far as killing three warders, leaving Love until later.

    [ The doppelgangers which were such a problem last time were mainly dealt with using buffed skeleton warriors. I considered sleeping and sending more, but decided that it probably wasn't necessary. It wasn't! I then returned to the gate to start The Greyclan Episode. That could be difficult. Now at the FAI. ]
    Post edited by Wise_Grimwald on
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