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Three Spell Questions

Bishop_AshBishop_Ash Member Posts: 49
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
Question 1 - Do I need both Simulacrum and Project Image? They seem to do the same thing.

Question 2 - Are Melf’s Minute Meteors effective against all golems?

Question 2.1 - Do I need to give my Skald proficiency in a blunt weapon if he uses Melf’s Minute Meteors for golem killing?

If it helps his starting proficiencies will be Shortbow +, Longbow +, Halberd +, 2-Handed Weapon Style + and he will be focused primarily on ranged combat and MMM. If MMM does not work against all creatures that require magical blunt weapons to hit he will take Quarterstaff at 12, otherwise it will be Two-handed Sword.

Question 2.2 - Are there any monsters other than clay golems that require magical blunt weapons to hit?

Question 3 - Does Mirror Image stack with itself? If I put two Mirror Images in a Minor Sequencer will I get twice as many images or will one just be wasted?

Comments

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,718
    Just on the first Q, project image is just a weaker version of simulacrum. Image has the severe limitation of stunning the initial caster for the spell duration. So, risky especially for a protagonist casting it. Though any damage on the original breaks the spell and thus the stun. Still you can end up in a vulnerable position this way, as you're giving up control. No attacks either.

    Nonetheless, it's a fine spell and good way to get more mileage out of your mage spells. It's just a weaker, and slightly riskier simulacrum.
  • Bishop_AshBishop_Ash Member Posts: 49
    Awesome!

    Thanks
  • JukezJukez Member Posts: 20
    edited September 24
    Project image
    Cons
    Character cannot move/act while image is up.
    Image cannot use weapons.
    Image can be destroyed with dispel magic, detect magic, True seeing, True Sight, Oracle

    pros
    image can cast any memorized spells up-to 9th level including HLAs and innate abilities as soon as caster is able to cast them. Image being able to cast HLAs at level 18, 3M XP is big pro vs Simulacrum early on. Also multiclassed mage (mage-something) can have image casting HLAs.

    Simulacrum
    cons
    Simulacrum casts spells with 60% reduced caster level, so being able to cast HLAs requires caster level 29, 7.125M xp, which is much later in game. Also multiclassed mages cannot reach this level for mage, so multiclass mage Simulacrums are out of using HLAs.

    pros
    Character can move/act normally when Simulacrum is up.
    Simulacrum can attack and use weapons at 60% of caster level.
    Simulacrum cannot be destroyed with dispel magic, detect magic, True seeing, True Sight, Oracle.

    So to summarize, Project Image is your power house summon for high level spells mid-game onwards, you just need to cast it in safe spot, since caster will be stuck in place.

    Simulacrum has lower level casting abilities, but since Simulacrum can attack and doesnt force caster to be stuck, it is really powerful summon for fighter-mage or thief-mage duals and multis, simulacrum is basically an extra thief or fighter in your party being able to cast protections spells, which is very powerful.

    For bards both Project Image and Simulacrum can sing bard songs.
    Project image can cast 6th level spells at level 16, 1.32M xp.
    Simulacrum can cast 6th level spells at level 26, 3.52M xp.
    Post edited by Jukez on
  • JukezJukez Member Posts: 20
    edited September 24
    MMM hits as +6 magical weapon so it will hit basically all enemies in game (except Magic Golems that are immune to magical weapons, but these are super rare). MMM does small fire damage to clay golems, not effective. Clay golems go down best with magical crushing weapons.

    MMM does not benefit from any weapon proficiency, so blunt weapons make no difference. MMM benefits from high Dexterity thac0 bonus.

    Different golems have different vulnerabilities and protections, wiki is the place to check details.

    Mirror image does not stack. Casting new mirror image replenishes the images. Putting multiple mirror images into sequencer is waste. Preferred sequencer combos are mirror image+blur or mirror image+invisibility for protection. Or for offense something like double magic missiles or double web.
    Post edited by Jukez on
  • Bishop_AshBishop_Ash Member Posts: 49
    Wow, that was very thorough and helpful! Thank you very much.

    Just curious, how can a bard cast Simulacrum and Project Image when they are both above 6th level spells?

    Thanks again!
  • JukezJukez Member Posts: 20
    Bishop_Ash wrote: »
    Just curious, how can a bard cast Simulacrum and Project Image when they are both above 6th level spells?

    Only from scrolls, or items allowing casting them.
  • Bishop_AshBishop_Ash Member Posts: 49
    Got it

    Thanks!
  • shevy123456shevy123456 Member Posts: 566
    I usually prefer simulacrum on a spellcaster. Being able to have kind of
    a clone helps against some enemies, like those that require breach
    etc... due to their spell protection. I think even in vanilla you can buy
    that helm in Ribar's store that does simulacrum? So I guess you could
    clone your bard. But I usually give it either to Viconia, or better a
    mage. Edwin is probably the best due to his amulet - tons of summons
    too.
  • Bishop_AshBishop_Ash Member Posts: 49
    Cool

    Thanks!
  • Bishop_AshBishop_Ash Member Posts: 49
    You've all been very helpful and I appreciate it.

    Question 1 - Out of curiosity, how many Simularca and/or Project Images can you have up at one time?

    Question 2 - Could I create a Chain Contingency with 3 Project Images/Simulacra? If Gorion's Ward is a Sorcerer and plays with Aerie and Jan, could I have all three do this and pop out 9 mages at the start of every battle?

    Question 3 - Do they count towrds the summons limit?

    Thanks again

  • JukezJukez Member Posts: 20
    Well, I don’t know definite answer to these, to be sure each scenario would have to be tested with current game version.

    Beamdog patch notes for BG2EE 2.0 specificly state that Project Image was fixed to honor the max 5 summon limit, but wiki says that there could be tricks/exploits to circumvent the limit in later game versions still.

    https://files.beamdog.com/files/BG-2.0-2.3-ReleaseNotes.pdf

    https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Project_Image

    Generally speaking, it has been possible to break/exploit both PI and Simulacrums to make them really game breaking in many ways. Many spell mods also modify these spells to limit their capabilities (eg. Spell Revisions, SCS).
  • Bishop_AshBishop_Ash Member Posts: 49
    I'm probably not skilled enough to game the system like that so I'm just going to assume max 5 summons/images/simulacra limit.

    Thanks
  • Gel87Gel87 Member Posts: 450
    1. Already good explained, but If i understand it correct you are a bard, with vanilla rules u cannot get level 7 spells...

    2. I would not call it effective, but ye it work vs most. its a +6 to hit, but some golems are completely immune to the piercing, and some are completely immune to the fire, and some has massive piercing res. Så its far from ideal vs golems. The same goes for skeleton warrios, some slimes etc...

    3. Some creatures has massive piercing and missle resists. And then blunt wepons helps a lot. A bard works well with stuff like flails and maces and war hammers with dual wield. Because war hammer can give you 25str late in tob, and mace of disruption is very good, and runehammer is very strong, as well as flail of the ages. Casomyr +5 is also great for a bard with use any item, but there a lot of swords where you can combine for both lowering enemies chance to hit, heal urself, or even lower enemy MR%.

    If u are solo bard there is a level 6 spell that reduce magical resists. That one can be casted on golems and reduce their MR%. And then they are very vulnerable to magical damage. Pierce shield works simular, but is a level 8 spell. And there are tricks concerning a certain wand in combination with a scroll that will cast the effect 6 times. Which will reduce their MR% to 0.

    If you are in a party, a priest can cast "magical res" safe via Sanctuary, this will rewrite the monsters MR%, and since Magical Res spell is considered a friendly spell it does not break sanctuary or trigger hostability.

    As Jukez say:
    Sircumlarium allows many exploit, you can even dupe items with them.
    But Scs etc does not always limit them max. In scs a beholder can remove your shield of balduran, but it cant do that on a clone. So a clone wielding that shield is immune and reflects those rays back.
  • Bishop_AshBishop_Ash Member Posts: 49
    Casting Magic Resistance from Sanctuary looks really good. I'll remember that.

    Thanks for all the info!
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