AI work (recent discussion)

shevy123456 · October 19

Some of you folks may have followed e. g. Lava's and Argent77's somewhat recent discussion
about use of AI, at the least with regards to translation, but also more generally (overall).

For those who have not, here are the two main links IMO so you can quickly update your knowledge of these discussions:

Lava's comment: https://weaselmods.net/showthread.php?tid=5233&pid=7371#pid7371
And the prior discussion on gibberlings3: https://www.gibberlings3.net/forums/topic/41641-should-we-ask-translators-if-they-used-ai-and-let-players-know/

(By the way, what would also be interesting to hear is morpheus' opinion; he is, I think, no longer
active on gibberlings, but somewhat active here, and he used a bit of AI here and there in some mods;
most famously I think the AI voice-overs, but I usually play without audio, as I have youtube play stuff in the background in general. I did play BG2 with music and voices in the past though.)

Now, the discussion is more for mod authors for the most part, so I am not the main audience
really; I am more of a gamer/player, though I do have a todo-list, e. g. "play one last time a
big run through" (including Acifer's most recent mod), then I am semi-retired (may still play
now and then, but nowhere near as much as I used to, and I have a gnomey-mod on my todo
list, so I will eventually start go to there, but I digress.)

So, on to the topic, of AI use with regards to translation, but also AI use in general.

Personally I dislike AI. But, there are a few use cases where I saw that they helped a bit.

For instance, in the Antamar browser game, some AI generated images were nice, and if
you have zero skills (and zero time) then this is a benefit, in my opinion.

We also saw some people generate AI image for the Baldur game engine, on the webforum
here. Some were ok, some good, many were not so good. But I guess here it is also somewhat
ok to some extent.

So for images I believe AI may be useful, to some extent.

Acifer pointed out that he used AI in several places, one was with regards to translation.

Here I noticed a slight quality problem, though I did not find it that problematic, but in
the poison-mod, some of the dialogue was a bit confusing. This was a bit odd (I did not
know most of it was AI generated or AI converted or AI filtered), but I thought it was
mostly because the mod was new; the lost goddess mod did not have that problem or
at the least I did not notice it there.

So I think, for translation and dialogue, AI may not be that useful. Lava made several
points actually, argent's point was more focused on quality. While I think the technically
correct answer would indeed be on quality (imagine if AI yields perfect text that makes
a lot of sense), I think Lava's point is actually the more wider-reaching one here. At the
least I think that mods that are less AI-generated, at the least content or story-wise,
tend to be better. Even with Lava's older mods such as the dreamy mod with the teddy
bear, while it is a bit confusing, I like it since it leaves more to the imagination, e. g.
"will you forget me" and as a strong answer "NO!!!!" - I mean, I never forget the dream,
right? AI could probably generate something like that, but on the other hand it may
feel more mechanical and unreal. So I think the human-generated content is better
overall; perhaps not in all areas per se (see the example of generating images when
you, as a user, may lack design skills; I lack them, so I would not rule out generated
AI images for a browser game), but at the least right now I think mods developed by
humans without AI tend to be better, overall. This is obviously a subjective opinion,
but I think a majority may have a rather similar opinion. (The discussion was a bit
more limited, though, if you read the gibberling thread, since this was initially more
about translations. Personally I always opt to play in english, if possible, as that is
simpler for me. Though I am fine with german for Acifer's mod too, e. g. the beta
test stage of it.)

morpheus562 · October 20

Like it or not, AI is here to stay. I used it a few years ago to create voices for many lines of dialog in Crucible, and it was hit or miss in how well it delivered the lines. I was upfront about it when it was used as it was a more new technology a few years ago, and it seems people have drawn deeper lines in the sand since then. Personally, I think some of the AI voices used are much better than some of the early BG modding that used human voice actors. I'll likely revisit some of those lines in a year or so to have AI redo some of those voices once the technology has had more time to mature and develop.

I've recently been using Claude to develop a mod installer, and I know newer modders on the scene have created equally, if not more so impressive tools for IE Gaming using AI. The community implementation and acceptance has been very disjointed when it comes to AI and its uses/acceptance. Reddit, for obvious example, is notorious for having an uneven approach in how it handles mods with AI. My works, Acifer's, Chris', etc. all use AI and are linked to and discussed on Reddit without repercussion; however, other users who have works where AI was used are immediately attacked by the Reddit community until moderators take down the threads. The community lost what looked like a really cool map overhaul mod that had awesome HD upscaling for many IE gaming maps because the creator made the mistake to post to Reddit when AI assisted with the HD upscaling. This also included paper doll and character upscaling. Lost.

When it comes to translations and AI, I personally do not care. I would rather have an awesome mod with broken english than an awesome mod with no english. If I get a bad translation, other native speakers will be sure to comment that x, y, or z about that translation is bad and then we can begin the steps to update, but a bad translation is better than no translation as it gives access of the work to a broader group of people. Now my scope is very limited with minimal story dialog and more technical text. Storytellers have their own perspective which is wonderful. I'm just speaking from my vantage of more technical mods with some flourish of storytelling.

Dark00 · October 21

morpheus562 wrote: »

The community lost what looked like a really cool map overhaul mod that had awesome HD upscaling for many IE gaming maps because the creator made the mistake to post to Reddit when AI assisted with the HD upscaling. This also included paper doll and character upscaling. Lost

https://bg2hd.gaurox.dev/news
It’s foolish not to use AI in situations where a human is practically powerless.

Sour · October 23

Most game developers use AI in their pre production chain these days. AI will never be worse than it is right now. It will continue to improve until it can nail translations with the press of a button. Once that happens nobody will need to waste their time finding translators for every language to translate every mod that comes out. That would be great. The overall quality is what should be the deciding factor for weather or not AI is used and each game developer will make the decision on where and when it should be used for their own projects. Using AI to get a base translation and then having a native speaking human go over the AI translation in order to match the quality of human translations is currently the best option but it won't be needed in the future as AI improves.

I use DLSS for AI upscaling in most modern games. I use Neural rendering in most modern games for much more advanced graphics. I even use Neural screen to enhance 3D renders that I produce and animate for short films. I could see myself using an AI auto animator and then tweaking the animations to look as good as possible by hand. AI will be used by robots to do physical labor, cure diseases in the medical research field. AI will most likely blaze a path through the stars if humanity ever decides to do space exploration in the distant future. Anyone in denial is retarded in my book and should stop using electricity altogether.

Quality should always be kept in check by artists and mod makers. AI can be a powerful tool used to enhance quality and cut down on production costs but it shouldn't be thrown at every problem and it can lead to lower quality if it's not managed properly. In the same way that throwing money at a problem will not always fix it. CGI art is a good example of a digital art form that was used to bridge the gap between anime and live action back in the 1990's. It's still used to this day and is indistinguishable from live action scenes if it's done correctly. There is still examples of good and bad CGI in modern films and AI will be similar in nature. It will depend on how it's used and managed as well as how skilled the artists and technicians are with AI use in general. There will be examples of good and bad AI use long into the foreseeable future.

Isewein · October 23

Where do you think "artists and mod makers" who can do that quality check will come from once AI has replaced every process that they learn to hone their craft with? Creativiy doesn't emerge from a vacuum.

Sour · October 23

AI doesn't create mods by itself and even if it does eventually, humans will always be able to achieve their vision with a collection of digital tools including AI. Human Creativity comes up with the concept, the character types, the adventure, the settings and the gameplay. AI is a tool that is filling in details. It's no different than using any other tool that makes it easier to draw a character or visualize a world easier. If I use a shortcut that allows me to make 3D models faster or I use an AI neural renderer to approximate realistic light with half the GPU cost, that isn't changing my creativity. I can still alter those results and if the results were what I had envisioned then it got me to the same end game in half the time with a lot less effort.

When the horse and carriage was replaced by the car it changed many things but people still needed to travel places and the act of traveling remains the same. Car manufactures make amazing looking cars that require a skill set but it's not the same as making a nice looking carriage. Things change but vision and skill are still required and the journey remains the same but experienced differently. We could focus on the emissions and the number of people cars kill but the truth is that the benefits of cars far outweigh the negatives and the human race wouldn't be nearly as evolved if we hadn't embraced our discoveries and pushed forward.

You are worrying that nobody will know how to drive if cars drive themselves. There will be less people that waste the time to learn but there will still be people that want to learn and can still race cars. It's not going to make race car driving disappear. People who make mods will continue to be born and create new things with new tools that expand their abilities. Single content creators could rival an AAA game studio with powerful enough tools. Modding will only get better. AI might enable people who wouldn't normally mod to make their own visions come to life thanks the to ease of use that AI tools may deliver some day. Of course there will be trash and bloat created by AI tools just like the internet created a lot of complainers but also made things much easier when it comes to learning information or watching what you want or ordering products from Amazon ect. I'll take the bad with the good.

atcDave · October 23

There’s no doubt AI will have a huge impact on economy, jobs, public health, etc… So Much of this is hard to foresee, and will likely lead to hardship for a lot of people just as the Industrial Revolution did (even if the outcome is ultimately for the greater good).

BUT, for now, for hobbyists, I think the future is all good, it’s such a powerful tool. We see daily people considering new mods, new art, new presentations of things that were hardly imagined a decade ago. Just today a BG gamer is discussing using AI to build new high def character sprites, something we were told was impossible when the EEs launched back in 2012.
For myself, it’s meant I can do graphic presentations of my run throughs. Which adds life and energy to the whole gaming experience *for me*. And yes, I’m fine with it if you think what I’m doing is dreadful or an abomination or whatever. This is getting close to Star Trek holodeck stuff as far I’m concerned. It’s bringing *my* imagination into a more vivid reality.

AI work (recent discussion)

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